By His stripes we are healed question

now faith

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Isaiah 53: 5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

AND

noun
\ ˈand \
Definition of AND (Entry 2 of 2)

: a logical operator that requires both of two inputs to be present or two conditions to be met for an output to be made or a statement to be executed

It is there , and being the key to other information information in conjunction with the statement.
We know the narritives are from different authors who used slightly different terminology , yet in Matthews Gospel it mentions sicknesses.
 
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mooneypn

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I just want to see the verses that connect physical healing with spiritual healing (salvation) that is exclusively pertaining to the cross. Not people's inference that verses on physical healing done by Jesus in His ministry proves physical healing because of His sufferings on the path to the cross. And again, l'm not saying God cannot or does not heal (supernaturally) today. I just want to see the verse that teach so within context of the Word and not by inference by those who believe it by what seems to be taking verses out of context to make it so. Andrew Wommack is very convincing until I research the verses and for some reason, it just does not set well, thus I keep digging deeper for truth.
 
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Blade

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So... why do you believe in Jesus for one. And Jesus when He walked this earth cared touched helped healed delivered all that came to Him and so many many more that are not written about. So He came for a reason... died rose PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS! A.. so that job is over? The second He left.. it all stopped?

If its truth you want the doubt will stop God from moving doing things all things in your life. Its faith.. not looking into this world and then judging how GOD moves by that. For me the best example is.. in a hollywood I went to see a preacher.. I left early and it was VERY dark lol.. and Hollywood..some school he had a meeting. So I am walking and it was about 2 blocks to my truck. I started to cross the street and He said "RUN".. I thought to my self..run? I thought.. I am not scared. He came right back with "when GOD says something you dont question it".. I was very happy.. I said.. yes. and started to run..

My point was its GODS word.. He said it.. just believe it! To finish the story.. as I was running I looked to my left and there were double doors to this apartment building and it was pitch black..doors open.. JUUUUUST as I passed.. two guys run out.. jump in this beat up car and are now driving backwards after me. Ok..NOW NOW I am very scared lol. I cross the street..them right after me.. I look to my left and across the street is my little truck...

I tell this exactly as it happen. There were to big guys by my truck.. what ALWAYS STILL gets to me is.. they were just standing there.. on on the sidewalk by the pass door. The other up front on the grass by the right front bumper. I run to my truck.. the car chasing me stops takes off ..they saw the two big guys.. just standing.. not talking...

I ALWAYS look back at this and.. WHY WHY was I not scared what so EVER of them? And just standing.. in the dark.. just standing. I KNOW LOL what I believe it is.. but.. I tell you only as it happen. nothing added..

So.. why do you believe in Jesus? Where is this guy.. friend brother savior GOD now? Where is GOD? Wheres this sweet sweet Holy Spirit? From what I read IN YOU! So...you telling me.. since you believed...you cant just ASK HIM about this?

By His strips you are..OT..By His strips you were NT. Lay hands on the sick they shall/will.. on and on. To many times we dont just take GOD at HIS word. He said it HE will do it.. get stuck ASK HIM! I still remember waiting for my son from School reading the word.. I said..what in the world does that mean? I keep reading it and .. He came right back with "I AM the treasure". Or when I was younger.. why is so and so not healed? He came right back with "remember when Daniel prayed?"

Hard to explain all of that. Well one I knew of this story. But.. lol.. it was as if the words exploded...anyway.. I said.. ok if this is you where is that written? He came right back with Daniel 10:9-12. I looked it up and.. holy Jesus.. well I had never read Daniel.. never could have guess that..

My point is.. just ask.. yet treat Him as you would others but BETTER...meaning...when was ask.. give Him time to answer. Wait on Him.. HE WILL answer. But .. if He is not like man.. yet.. how many times would you stop trying to answer if the person NEVER listened? He is with us morning and night.. how much to we acknowledge Him? Gave me..reminded me of this last night.. man have not thought of that verse in years.. acknowledge Him in all your ways.. and He will direct your path
 
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mooneypn

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Blade, to answer your most important question, why do I believe. It's because He made Himself real to me. My life changed 48 years ago. I have been serving him since that time...now 64. He's my everything. I study and research much in the Word. I am waiting for someone to address my question and no one has yet. In case I have not made myself clear. I am not questioning whether God can supernaturally heal anyone today. I have not doubt at all that He can, yet I have not met anyone who has been supernaturally healed. Many have claimed but after questioning, it was not so. What I'm trying to understand is when people use the verse, By His stripes we were healed and claim it means physical healing also, but using other verses that do not say that...Do they not know that? It was foretold he healed physical sicknesses and He did (in context). Simply put. There are people today that believe God does not supernaturally heal...and there are people who say He does and He wants all to be physically heal. I cannot find that teaching nowhere in the Bible. I am asking a simple question. Where in the Bible is the teaching that Jesus' death on the cross says it applies to physical healing. We know it applies to salvation, because it said so. When they say to applies to both salvation and physical healing they use different verses that do not relate to each other. One, when He died on the cross and the other when He healed all during his ministry while on the Earth (which was for a purpose and also foretold.) That may be the reason that so many are not healed as easily as born again. Where are the verses that prove physical healing now. Again, I'm not saying God can't or does not supernaturally healed today. I want to see the verses that prove it. After reviewing all the healing verses and salvation verses, I cant find the connection. It sounds good and I'd love it to be so, but I have yet to find it. Oh, and yes, I've been waiting for a long time now and I know a lot of people who believe He does who are also waiting for a long time as well. I listen to Andres Wommack daily and his teaching sound so good..., but I've not heard him clearing make the connection I'm talking about. It's seems like he just believe it so, without the connection. It's like he make the connection on his own. I don't think he would think that since he says, his son was raised from the dead after being dead 4.5 hours and raised his wife from the dead and saw thousands supernaturally healed and on and on. If he's correct, there has to be a connection. I even have a problem with someone being raised from the dead today, when Paul said, It's appointed for man once to die but after this the judgement. Makes me think they weren't dead, but that another subject with many angles to it.
 
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hhodgson

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I just want to see the verses that connect physical healing with spiritual healing (salvation) that is exclusively pertaining to the cross. Not people's inference that verses on physical healing done by Jesus in His ministry proves physical healing because of His sufferings on the path to the cross. And again, l'm not saying God cannot or does not heal (supernaturally) today. I just want to see the verse that teach so within context of the Word and not by inference by those who believe it by what seems to be taking verses out of context to make it so. Andrew Wommack is very convincing until I research the verses and for some reason, it just does not set well, thus I keep digging deeper for truth.

Andrew Wommack is awesome. This google search will show you the connection through the Greek word SOZO. I hope it helps in your research digging.

sōzō meaning Andrew Wommack - Google Search

strong's definition of sozo - Google Search


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SavedByGrace3

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I just want to see the verses that connect physical healing with spiritual healing (salvation) that is exclusively pertaining to the cross. Not people's inference that verses on physical healing done by Jesus in His ministry proves physical healing because of His sufferings on the path to the cross. And again, l'm not saying God cannot or does not heal (supernaturally) today. I just want to see the verse that teach so within context of the Word and not by inference by those who believe it by what seems to be taking verses out of context to make it so. Andrew Wommack is very convincing until I research the verses and for some reason, it just does not set well, thus I keep digging deeper for truth.
The best answer to this is that there is no such thing as spiritual healing in the NT. We are not healed in our spirit, we are born again. Not only are we not "healed spiritually", we actually die. We are then resurrected from spiritual death and are raised up with Him "Incorruptible!"

1 Peter 3:4
But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible
, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So what exactly is being healed? Not your spirit. It died of it's illness, was resurrected with Christ (born again) and that born again spirit cannot be corrupted. You can be healed in your body and your soul.. but not your spirit.

In reality "spiritual healing" is a new age concept that has no place in the Christian faith.
So trying to bend "by his stripes ye were healed" into a "spiritual healing" twist is just bogus. It is an example of the extreme to which those who are against "healing in the atonement" will go to dissuade the sick from believing the Word of healing. Not only do we see them twist healing from the hope of the sick, but we see them promote a demonic new age teaching "spiritual healing" to do it
Yes... healing is included in the atonement. In fact everything is included in the atonement. If everything is not included in the atonement, then you have no right to ask for it. And Jesus said we can ask for anything (everything) and He will do it.

John 14:13-14
"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

Matthew 21:22
"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

John 16:24
"Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.

John 14:14
"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

1 John 5:14
This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

John 14:13
"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 15:16
"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

John 16:23-24
"In that day you will not question Me about anything Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. "Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.

John 15:7
"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Of course healing is included in the atonement, as is everything else.
I would ask those who disagree; upon what is your faith based? Do you know why we pray "in the name of Jesus?" It is because what we receive is always based on Jesus, His suffering, His death, His resurrection, and His lordship at the right hand of the Father. How else do you think prayers are answered? If not in the name of Jesus then what?? If you can receive anything from God OUTSIDE of prayer in the name of Jesus... please let us know how you do it. If we can receive it, whether it be healing or needs provided or any other thing.. it is only because it was covered by the atonement.
 
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Simon the Tanner

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Sin and sickness are intertwined in the scriptures. If there was no sin there would be no sickness. So healing of sin and healing of sickness are also connected. That's why Jesus told the man his sins were forgiven before He healed him. That's why David said that God forgives all of our sins and heals all of our diseases. That's why James said that when a person is healed their sins would be forgiven as well. As for Isaiah 53:4,5 we in the church world look to that as the prophecy of the atonement for sin. But Matthew tells us that the context for healing is physical as well as spiritual. If the atonement applies to our sins then it applies to our sicknesses as well. That's why Pentecostal denominations have included physical healing in the atonement in their statements of faith.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Is 53 says by His stripes we are healed.

I understand that the stripes refer to the strips of flesh torn off Jesus' back when He was flogged in the run up to the cross.

Is there something that links those two things? It is not 100% clear to me that the strips and the stripes must be the same thing.

Along similar lines - translations like the NIV and the ESV use the word "wounds" instead of "stripes". This would then include the crown of thorns and the pierced side as wounds that we are healed by.

What are your thoughts on this?

Mike
Jesus was whipped before He was crucified. It was through that whipping that we are healed. This makes healing part of the Atonement. His body was broken for us that we may be made whole. This is why the Corinthians were getting sick and dying before their time. They were not discerning the body and blood of Christ. This has nothing to do with the sinfulness of people prevented them from coming to the Table. It is precisely that we are sinners that we need to come to the Table.

No. The lack of discernment of the body and blood of the Lord, is that the Corinthians were ignorant of what these symbols stood for. Some treated the table (which was more of a fellowship lunch) as a gluttony fest and descended on the table like gannets and ate so much that others missed out. Others got drunk on the free wine that was served in abundance. Different from today's Lord's "Snack" consisting of a bit of water biscuit and a small sip out of the chalice.

The bread of the Lord's Table stands for the broken body of the Lord, bringing healing to the sick and continued health of believers. It has been known that sick people have been healed when they have partaken of the bread at the Lord's Table.

It is much the same today. Treating the Lord's Table as a religious ceremony, a ritual, or a weekly sacrifice comes from a lack of discernment of the Lord's body and blood in the symbols. This is why many church goers are still sickly and die before their time.

Because I am on the WOF thread, I won't make any further comment about the availability of divine healing for believers. But it is definitely part of the finished work of Jesus on the cross.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Many, even Charismatics and Pentecostal believers do not see 1 Corin 12 in this way. You have presented a very good summation of why people "are sick, weak, and die young." It is because they do not "discern the body of the Lord" that is: they do not see what that body represents when they take it (the bread). It is just like taking the wine and not knowing it represents the blood - and what that means. You can stuff yourself with communal bread and drink wine till you are silly. But if you do not see what these things mean... then you have not "discerned the Lord's body (or blood)and it does you no good. The "judgement" therefore remains on you.
Good post.
Jesus was whipped before He was crucified. It was through that whipping that we are healed. This makes healing part of the Atonement. His body was broken for us that we may be made whole. This is why the Corinthians were getting sick and dying before their time. They were not discerning the body and blood of Christ. This has nothing to do with the sinfulness of people prevented them from coming to the Table. It is precisely that we are sinners that we need to come to the Table.

No. The lack of discernment of the body and blood of the Lord, is that the Corinthians were ignorant of what these symbols stood for. Some treated the table (which was more of a fellowship lunch) as a gluttony fest and descended on the table like gannets and ate so much that others missed out. Others got drunk on the free wine that was served in abundance. Different from today's Lord's "Snack" consisting of a bit of water biscuit and a small sip out of the chalice.

The bread of the Lord's Table stands for the broken body of the Lord, bringing healing to the sick and continued health of believers. It has been known that sick people have been healed when they have partaken of the bread at the Lord's Table.

It is much the same today. Treating the Lord's Table as a religious ceremony, a ritual, or a weekly sacrifice comes from a lack of discernment of the Lord's body and blood in the symbols. This is why many church goers are still sickly and die before their time.

Because I am on the WOF thread, I won't make any further comment about the availability of divine healing for believers. But it is definitely part of the finished work of Jesus on the cross.
 
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hhodgson

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The best answer to this is that there is no such thing as spiritual healing in the NT. We are not healed in our spirit, we are born again. Not only are we not "healed spiritually", we actually die. We are then resurrected from spiritual death and are raised up with Him "Incorruptible!"

This is excellent Dids. Just about missed it. Sad to say that many, many, Christians do not grasp this. Our new spirit is exactly the same as Christ when we became born of God (born-again). We need to learn who Jesus is and what he done for us. Once we "really" know this revelation then we can also know who WE are in Christ.

When the Body of Christ more (fully) understands spirit, soul, and body, and know that it was their spirit that changed and created in righteousness and true holiness and was "sealed" by the Holy Spirit in that NO SIN can penetrate it. That's awesome. Jesus said, "It is the new (born-again) spirit that quickeneth; the flesh absolutely profits nothing: the Words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).

So what exactly is being healed? Not your spirit. It died of it's illness, was resurrected with Christ (born again) and that born again spirit cannot be corrupted. You can be healed in your body and your soul.. but not your spirit.

Looking good. I'll emphasize on this some more for the viewer's sake. Every born-again believer has (already) undergone a complete and total "innermost" spirit transformation. I'll add that's (incorruptible). "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things have passed away; behold all things become new (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Yes... healing is included in the atonement. In fact everything is included in the atonement. If everything is not included in the atonement, then you have no right to ask for it. And Jesus said we can ask for anything (everything) and He will do it.

The "everything" is based on Jesus Christ and His Word which perfectly reflects "who WE are in the spirit." This means that having "Christ in us", [and] that we are "in Christ", is that we (now) have God's power residing in our spirit which is the same power that raised Jesus Christ from the dead. The Body of Christ needs to grasp this revelation and start releasing the power of God that's in our spirit. What's also sad is that the Body of Christ HAS this power in us and yet... rarely manifest it. God help us.

Harry...

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SavedByGrace3

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This is excellent Dids. Just about missed it. Sad to say that many, many, Christians do not grasp this. Our new spirit is exactly the same as Christ when we became born of God (born-again). We need to learn who Jesus is and what he done for us. Once we "really" know this revelation then we can also know who WE are in Christ.

When the Body of Christ more (fully) understands spirit, soul, and body, and know that it was their spirit that changed and created in righteousness and true holiness and was "sealed" by the Holy Spirit in that NO SIN can penetrate it. That's awesome. Jesus said, "It is the new (born-again) spirit that quickeneth; the flesh absolutely profits nothing: the Words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).

Looking good. I'll emphasize on this some more for the viewer's sake. Every born-again believer has (already) undergone a complete and total "innermost" spirit transformation. I'll add that's (incorruptible). "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things have passed away; behold all things become new (2 Corinthians 5:17).

The "everything" is based on Jesus Christ and His Word which perfectly reflects "who WE are in the spirit." This means that having "Christ in us", [and] that we are "in Christ", is that we (now) have God's power residing in our spirit which is the same power that raised Jesus Christ from the dead. The Body of Christ needs to grasp this revelation and start releasing the power of God that's in our spirit. What's also sad is that the Body of Christ HAS this power in us and yet... rarely manifest it. God help us.

Harry...

Thanks for the response Harry,
Yes it is all because of Jesus, the gospel, and the Word.
Great testimony. Great scripture. Great God!
 
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now faith

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This may be oversimplifying , this discussion, but keep in mind I am around people often that deny God's will to heal us and have no reason why some get healed and some do not.
One question:
If a person thinks God does not heal everyone, or Healing is not part of the atonement, or it's God's will not to heal you, then why would you go outside of God's will and put your trust in a doctor?
Keep in mind I have witnessed people who have been crippled by multiple surgeries.
They go back and back and get worse and worse.
Not everyone, I agree that doctors are good and needed sometimes.
I'm not a guy who forbids doctors.
I ask questions, and it depends on if your heart tells you God will heal and you go to doctor instead or surgeon.
Personally I believe we are held accountable for how much we know.
To me it does not make sense to for go God for a doctor who may be a unbeliever.
 
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hhodgson

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This may be oversimplifying , this discussion, but keep in mind I am around people often that deny God's will to heal us and have no reason why some get healed and some do not.
One question:
If a person thinks God does not heal everyone, or Healing is not part of the atonement, or it's God's will not to heal you, then why would you go outside of God's will and put your trust in a doctor?
Keep in mind I have witnessed people who have been crippled by multiple surgeries.
They go back and back and get worse and worse.
Not everyone, I agree that doctors are good and needed sometimes.
I'm not a guy who forbids doctors.
I ask questions, and it depends on if your heart tells you God will heal and you go to doctor instead or surgeon.
Personally I believe we are held accountable for how much we know.
To me it does not make sense to for go God for a doctor who may be a unbeliever.

Jesus said, "My people perish for a lack of knowledge" and the understanding of God's Word. It's not a surprise that ALL true born-again Christians would know that the MOST important thing in their lives was when they excepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. There would be no question about that, but... What would be the next MOST important thing Christians need to do (daily) to grow in God's WORD... and to gain the understanding to help their faith grow from their unbelief? There are many scriptures in the WORD that says to "renew your mind" as said in...

(Romans 12:2) "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the (renewing of your mind), that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God".

(2 Corinthians 4:16) - "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is (renewed) day by day."​

This is one of the main reasons why were not receiving God's promises. Most don't know that we are already blessed with ALL spiritual blessings in "Christ". On the surface it may appear that all (knew) the Word, but in truth, only those who overcame had the Word of God made alive on the inside of them through the revelation knowledge received by the renewing of their minds from meditating on the Word.

The good news is that in these last days, God’s revelation knowledge is beginning to flow among His people more than ever before. The Body of Christ is beginning to realize just who we are "in Christ"... in that, our newly created incorruptible spirit, God has given us the "mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:16).

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now faith

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Jesus said, "My people perish for a lack of knowledge" and the understanding of God's Word. It's not a surprise that ALL true born-again Christians would know that the MOST important thing in their lives was when they excepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. There would be no question about that, but... What would be the next MOST important thing Christians need to do (daily) to grow in God's WORD... and to gain the understanding to help their faith grow from their unbelief? There are many scriptures in the WORD that says to "renew your mind" as said in...

(Romans 12:2) "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the (renewing of your mind), that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God".

(2 Corinthians 4:16) - "For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is (renewed) day by day."​

This is one of the main reasons why were not receiving God's promises. Most don't know that we are already blessed with ALL spiritual blessings in "Christ". On the surface it may appear that all (knew) the Word, but in truth, only those who overcame had the Word of God made alive on the inside of them through the revelation knowledge received by the renewing of their minds from meditating on the Word.

The good news is that in these last days, God’s revelation knowledge is beginning to flow among His people more than ever before. The Body of Christ is beginning to realize just who we are "in Christ"... in that, our newly created incorruptible spirit, God has given us the "mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:16).


Very nice teaching my friend.

For some it's not a lack of knowledge, it is a outright placing their denomation over God's Word.
It is so hard to Wittness to those you know, especially when they hold a position in their Church.
In some ways it is simular to a person who votes right down their party line, and they are to stubborn to change.
It's the politics of their piers that they hold above our Lord.
It's not as important to stand on the promises of God ,as it is to not offened their Churcch gtoup
 
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