Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

There is no contradiction to deal with because the Bible studs the earth is four sided while the waters and the heavens are circular

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No, the Bible states that:

a) Earth is a circle
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth" Is 40:22

b) Earth has 4 corners
"...will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth" Rev 20:8

How do you deal with this contradiction?

myst33 said:

Oh, now all scientists can stop working.

Please, describe what you see at least to the extend of explaining how day/night, seasons, moon phases and eclipses work so that we can build better satellites, better spaceships, better planes etc.

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Well according to Genesis Light = Day and Darkness = Night. In order for day to shift to night it stands that light must move; and if the light moves then the darkness moves as well. We have proven light to move already so we can conclude that darkness moves as well. As for the Moon phases well...Genesis answers that as well: God commanded the Sun, Moon and stars to each give light upon the earth. Therefore what we can observe from the Moon is that it has it's own light which waxes and wanes due to her simply gaining and losing her light. As for the eclipses this is simple as well: because the Sun and Moon have pre determined courses it stands that they take turns blocking each other....simple... why they do this: God created them to act the way we observe them to throughout the year

myst33 said:

No, the Bible states that:

a) Earth is a circle
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth" Is 40:22

b) Earth has 4 corners
"...will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth" Rev 20:8

How do you deal with this contradiction?

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Simple...God does not contradict Himself therefore if you read Isaiah carefully he qualifies two different times what circle he is talking about in the same verse:

1. God sits above the circle of the earth
2. God stretches out the heavens like a tent.

What is above the earth? The heavens are. Where is God's throne according to king David? The heavens. And where is God's footstool according to king David? The earth.

myst33 said:

Oh, now all scientists can stop working.

Please, describe what you see at least to the extend of explaining how day/night, seasons, moon phases and eclipses work so that we can build better satellites, better spaceships, better planes etc.

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I almost forgot to explain the seasons. Well the heavens according to the Bible have windows which let out things like rain, hail, snow, lighting, etc. Therefore God opens them at the appropriate times to change the seasons; and He used the Sun to accomplish this through its heat and position in the sky; and the heat is radiated off of the clear dome in order and causes us to sweat...and this I believe you can read from the book of Job. King Solomon also tells us that the winds are four and travel in circles in Eccleciastes. And we are told the north wind blows cold air while the south wind blows hot air: this makes sense as birds always fly south during the winter. The Bible also says that the east wind is usually scorching and destructive while the West wind is opposite.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Simple...God does not contradict Himself

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But Bible is not God.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

therefore if you read Isaiah carefully he qualifies two different times what circle he is talking about in the same verse:

1. God sits above the circle of the earth
2. God stretches out the heavens like a tent.

What is above the earth? The heavens are. Where is God's throne according to king David? The heavens.

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But I am not asking you about heavens.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

And where is God's footstool according to king David? The earth.

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And the earth is the circle, right? So how do you deal with the contradiction that the earth has 4 corners?

YHWH_will_uplift said:

Well according to Genesis Light = Day and Darkness = Night. In order for day to shift to night it stands that light must move;

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Or the object that is being illuminated like you can simply turn your back to a lamp and now your back is illuminated and your face is in "night".

YHWH_will_uplift said:

and if the light moves then the darkness moves as well. We have proven light to move already so we can conclude that darkness moves as well.

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Darkness is an emptiness of light. When light "moves away", the darkness returns.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

As for the eclipses this is simple as well: because the Sun and Moon have pre determined courses it stands that they take turns blocking each other....simple...

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So, you agree that both sun and moon are objects, not lights, right? (Now you are not reading Genesis literally, BTW)

YHWH_will_uplift said:

I almost forgot to explain the seasons. Well the heavens according to the Bible have windows which let out things like rain, hail, snow, lighting, etc. Therefore God opens them at the appropriate times to change the seasons; and He used the Sun to accomplish this through its heat and position in the sky; and the heat is radiated off of the clear dome in order and causes us to sweat...and this I believe you can read from the book of Job. King Solomon also tells us that the winds are four and travel in circles in Eccleciastes. And we are told the north wind blows cold air while the south wind blows hot air: this makes sense as birds always fly south during the winter. The Bible also says that the east wind is usually scorching and destructive while the West wind is opposite.

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How is it possible that we can predict rains, snowing, winds, if its God who "opens the windows"?

Also, how is it possible to fly in a plane into clouds or even above them without a necessity to open any window? You can do it also with a drone, if you want a personal test. There is no solid firmanent holding clouds above. Ancient people could not explain the natural phenomena, so they invented a firmanent. In modern vocabulary, its just atmospheric pressure.

Also, the most important thing, can you put day/night, seasons, moon phases and eclipses into one working model that will work? Do you know what I mean by a model?

myst33 said:

In that case making humanity from dust, "earth hangs on nothing" or "circle of the earth" are also a figure of speech, do you agree?

If not, on what basis you decide what is and what is not? If you say "based on conterporary science, based on our observation of the world", then Bible is not your perfect and highest authority, right? But you explain the Bible according to your experience and knowledge.

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There is no question that the Bible writers used metaphor and figures of speech. Jesus, Himself, did so prominently. When asked by His disciples why He taught the multitudes in parables, He said ...

“The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see;
... though hearing, they do not hear or
understand.’"

Standing in the Jewish Temple, He said ... "Destroy this temple, ... and in three days, I will raise it up." But He was speaking of His body.

There is an entire section of the Bible composed of poetic literature. So, the contention that everything in the Bible must be understood literally is simplistic, at best, and deceptive, at worst.

I am content to agree that the Bible doesn't speak much, if at all, about the physical shape of the world.

For me, that leaves me free to honestly consider the voluminous amount of scientific evidence that demonstrates a spherical earth.

A_Thinker said:

There is no question that the Bible writers used metaphor and figures of speech.

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There is also no question that they had incorrect information regarding biology, astronomy etc.

A_Thinker said:

I am content to agree that the Bible doesn't speak much, if at all, about the physical shape of the world.
For me, that leaves me free to honestly consider the voluminous amount of scientific evidence that demonstrates a spherical earth.

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And not just the shape, also development of life, of the universe, how our body works etc.

Bible is just a library of books written by authors who were inspired regarding mankind salvation. They use their own knowledge and vocabulary to describe this salvation.

myst33 said:

So why are there dates?


Because these examples are made up.


No, I do not want to see a thread, I want to see a working flat earth model that explains our daily life and we can use it to make predictions about moon phases, eclipses etc. based on it.

With the standard model, we can predict movement of any object in space.

With the standard model, we can even predict eclipses with the precision to seconds. It simply works.

With the Flat Earth, we do not even know what eclipses are, not to say predict them.

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Ancient scientists could predict eclipses with equal accuracy...even when they believed the earth was flat.

That is not a FE/globe earth issue... You observe the sun and moon and calculate when they will eclipse.

myst33 said:

In that case making humanity from dust, "earth hangs on nothing" or "circle of the earth" are also a figure of speech, do you agree?

If not, on what basis you decide what is and what is not? If you say "based on conterporary science, based on our observation of the world", then Bible is not your perfect and highest authority, right? But you explain the Bible according to your experience and knowledge.

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You are not, seriously, challenging the fact that God formed Adam from the dust, with His hands and breathed the breath of life into him... and then made Eve from Adam's rib..... are you?

myst33 said:

No. I am saying that unless the Flat Earth works, I will not have faith in it.


Ooooh no, again. Because your models do not work, I am lazy.



Now I am confused. So am I lazy to do the proper research or am I not supposed to rely on that and simply ask God for answers?

Please, decide what you want from me.

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It's kind of difficult to compete with a model that has been played with for at least 100 years...when you are trying, as mere men, to put together a model of how God's word and a possible FE model would work. We only know so much.. so little, in fact that we cannot even prove either model.

From my prospective... the FE model has some issues... but it works.. The globe model also has some issues but creating this illusive force of gravity and other issues it has.. it also, from a human viewpoint, works.

myst33 said:

So, tell us, how do seasons, day/night, eclipses, moon phases work so that humanity can advance in technology and science?

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This has already been explained to you.. Just because you say "it doesn't work" proves nothing.

myst33 said:

Well, I am not a scientist, I do not have the answers.

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Yet you dismiss the model of the FE as "not working"......? Really?

Its truly amazing to see people that are so gullible and easily led by false beliefs and conspiracy theories. Plus, they look at scripture and believe that it is 100% literal. The Bible is very complex. Its not as easy as reading it in black and white. Revelation is one book that is EXTREMELY misinterpreted too.

Norman70 said:

Following this thread in its entirety leaves me to think that we should leave flat earthers totally in God's hands. Alternatively, since we are admonished to be in this world but not part of it, and to spread a belief in the Word of God (Jesus, not the written words in the Bible, which should be read but not taken literally), we should confront them seriously, but not dismiss their apparent sincerity.
I am old, I choose the first option.

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Nice deflection... LOL... You simply cannot debate them so, under your own appointment, deem yourself correct..and dismiss the people with a different view and smugly leave FE'er in God's Hands....

You are funny.

Lost4words said:

Its truly amazing to see people that are so gullible and easily led by false beliefs and conspiracy theories. Plus, they look at scripture and believe that it is 100% literal. The Bible is very complex. Its not as easy as reading it in black and white. Revelation is one book that is EXTREMELY misinterpreted too.

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Let's look at two scriptures...

Matthew 14:25 New International Version (NIV)
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake.

Exodus 20:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Which one is not literal and why?

Norman70 said:

As a retired science teacher I am quite capable of defending the scientific evidence, but being old and retired I leave it to others. Science being a gift of God I am perfectly comfortable in using it to explore God's world. It is missused, of course, but that is the result of the machinations of the devil. Jesus directs us in its proper use and my relationship with Him takes priority over anything else, including the Bible. The Bible is merely an inspired guide, and I have to rely on my spiritual relationship with Jesus to get nearer to the Truth. But we will not get to theTruth in this life. As Christians we must all humble ourselves before God.

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Then... I refer you to post # 432... Love to hear your view.

Also....If you are going to "leave it to others"... Why then, start a thread making a statement as you have here:
Flat earth beliefs are total are totally in error

Being a teacher, I must assume that you have the intelligence to understand that this is a direct challenge to those that hold the FE belief... and... as such.. you should be prepared to defend your challenge..


I don't feel that you have... You have heard too much that you cannot debate and wish to wash your hands of it and place the onus on others to defend your challenge.