Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

_Dave_ said:
Four . Corners . = Plain words.

"Not being able to measure the "four corners of the earth" nor being unable to travel to said locations ..."

So you believe your four corners expression is not an idiom because it can be understood. Yet you admit you can't locate the four corners, nor measure them. In fact, you have no idea that these four corners even physically exist in locality.

Again, textbook definition of an idiomatic expression.

In NO definition of the idiomatic expression "four corners of the earth" is it ever intended to refer to physical corners located in specific locations. The term ALWAYS refers to something denoting an unspecified distance.

But, by your refusal to acknowledge the phrase as an idiom you are saying there are literally specifically four corners somewhere on earth.

Or not.

You can't have it both ways.

"Unspecified distance" does not mean "not understandable". Just because I say that, "I traveled from the north end of the Philippines to the south end of the Philippines" yet am unable to specify the distance: does not mean that what I said is an idiom. The same logic applies to the "four corners of the earth": just because I am unable to specify the distance does not mean the phrase's plain words are difficult to understand. You from your own admission clearly understand what scripture means when it uses the phrase "four corners of the earth". Forcing a definition onto a word or phrase which it does not fit, does not make that definition for the word or phrase true. It's like forcing a square peg into a triangular hole.

ewq1938 · Apr 10, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
A square has four corners which is why it also has four sides.

My point is the earth cannot be a circle and a square at the same time.

I never said God placed the earth upon pillars...God says that He placed the pillars on the earth.

All FE descriptions I have read of say the Earth is supported on top of pillars beneath it.

That is based on a heliocentric model. The Bible is clearly speaking of a geocentric model with the planets from the Greek planestai which literally means 'wanderer': therefore because the earth is built upon an immovable foundation, the earth does not move, therefore it is not a planet (i.e. wanderer) so, the Sun, Moon and stars are all planets which 'wander' around the earth.

It only looks that way when you look up but the Earth is moving.

And if we have truly "explored the entire earth" then we wouldn't be having this discussion about the ends of the earth as we would have seen them long ago.

There is no end of the Earth as in a literal edge.

Therefore Satan uses and manipulates people in power to use the globe earth to hide this fact:

There is zero benefit for Satan to deceive people that they live on a globe. It literally has no purpose at all to do that. Satan wants to keep people from God and FE vs. globe doesn't do that. In fact, arguing so much for a FE using misunderstood verses is something t6hat will drive people away from scripture and God because of how poorly FE is constructed as an argument.

Satan knows that you win people over by educating them

But a poor and incorrect position will force people away from God and the bible because they will think the FE position is stupid which is the case. Most people consider Fe's as dumb bible thumping morons. I don't, but that is the common opinion of Fe's that I have read online. Keep in mind, I believe the bible, and I think the government and NASA lie about tons of things...but a flat Earth? Nothing is there to gain from hiding nor could it be hidden anyways. It's a false conspiracy, sorry.

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

_Dave_ said:
Four . Corners . = Plain words.

"Not being able to measure the "four corners of the earth" nor being unable to travel to said locations ..."

So you believe your four corners expression is not an idiom because it can be understood. Yet you admit you can't locate the four corners, nor measure them. In fact, you have no idea that these four corners even physically exist in locality.

Again, textbook definition of an idiomatic expression.

In NO definition of the idiomatic expression "four corners of the earth" is it ever intended to refer to physical corners located in specific locations. The term ALWAYS refers to something denoting an unspecified distance.

But, by your refusal to acknowledge the phrase as an idiom you are saying there are literally specifically four corners somewhere on earth.

Or not.

You can't have it both ways.

As for your poor argument of four corners not being determining factors as to why a square has four sides...well...I don't know how you passed geometry....so here's the definition:

In geometry, a square is a regular quadrilateral, which means that it has four equal sides and four equal angles (90-degree angles, or (100-gradian angles or right angles). It can also be defined as a rectangle in which two adjacent sides have equal length.

The angles on a square can be found by locating its four corners...which is how a pyramid is made possible...sigh...

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

ewq1938 said:
My point is the earth cannot be a circle and a square at the same time.

Scripture never said that it is a square and circle at the same time brother. Isaiah 40:22 makes that crystal clear by qualifying the "circle of the earth" being the heavens which God sits above and, has stretched out like a tent.

ewq1938 said:
All FE descriptions I have read of say the Earth is supported on top of pillars beneath it.

Yes that is true and, if you pay close attention dear brother you will see that according to scripture that is not true. For Samuel's mother Hannah tells us that the pillars are "[...]of the earth[...]", meaning that God has placed the pillars on the earth and the world on top of the pillars (1 Samuel 2:8).

ewq1938 said:
It only looks that way when you look up but the Earth is moving.

No, scripture makes it clear that the earth does not move for He has set it on a foundation. Foundations for any structure do not move, therefore the structures themselves do not move.

ewq1938 said:
There is no end of the Earth as in a literal edge.

Yes there are and, there are many passages stating that the earth has ends.

ewq1938 said:
There is zero benefit for Satan to deceive people that they live on a globe. It literally has no purpose at all to do that. Satan wants to keep people from God and FE vs. globe doesn't do that. In fact, arguing so much for a FE using misunderstood verses is something t6hat will drive people away from scripture and God because of how poorly FE is constructed as an argument.

There is every benefit for Satan lol! He is the Enemy of God and mankind for crying out loud! Because Satan knows he will not get everyone to burn in the lake of fire with him: his goal is to get a majority of the world to burn with him. Satan hates God, man, and the creations of God.

ewq1938 said:
But a poor and incorrect position will force people away from God and the bible because they will think the FE position is stupid which is the case. Most people consider Fe's as dumb bible thumping morons. I don't, but that is the common opinion of Fe's that I have read online. Keep in mind, I believe the bible, and I think the government and NASA lie about tons of things...but a flat Earth? Nothing is there to gain from hiding nor could it be hidden anyways. It's a false conspiracy, sorry.

Yes a poor and incorrect position will do this and, those stuck in falsehood will also be pushed away from the truth: which they believe to be an 'incorrect position'. This is not a question of you personally brother. Please remember that when the Light of God's Word shines in the darkness: it reveals the hearts of men and by default causes a division: for those whose works are evil will not come to the Light in order to be healed and saved.

A_Thinker · Apr 10, 2019

JacksBratt said:
You only need it to be a "force" if you want things to stick to it.
It's not a force if down is just... well,..... down.

That's just like saying the grass is just, well, .... green.

That may be enough for the average joe, ... but for scientists who wish to understand that Chlorophyll is the reason plants are green, ... in order to use that knowledge to better feed humanity, ... it's not quite enough.

yeshuaslavejeff · Apr 10, 2019

A_Thinker said:
That's just like saying the grass is just, well, .... green.

That may be enough for the average joe, ... but for scientists who wish to understand that Chlorophyll is the reason plants are green, ... in order to use that knowledge to better feed humanity, ... it's not enough.

Older peoples fed the population better (at times, not always)
than
came from use of most 'modern' technology and chemicals and corrupted(modified) seeds.

Many countries now have lost or corrupted food (and water) supplies... (and air)...

due to corruption worldwide in mankind.

A_Thinker · Apr 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Older peoples fed the population better (at times, not always)
than
came from use of most 'modern' technology and chemicals and corrupted(modified) seeds.

Many countries now have lost or corrupted food (and water) supplies... (and air)...

due to corruption worldwide in mankind.

Is it your contention that the world was better fed in times past ???

_Dave_ · Apr 10, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
As for your poor argument of four corners not being determining factors as to why a square has four sides...well...I don't know how you passed geometry....so here's the definition:

In geometry, a square is a regular quadrilateral, which means that it has four equal sides and four equal angles (90-degree angles, or (100-gradian angles or right angles). It can also be defined as a rectangle in which two adjacent sides have equal length.

The angles on a square can be found by locating its four corners...which is how a pyramid is made possible...sigh...

I think you posted this for someone else. I haven't been a part of the "square" debate.

But, anyway, I'll give you the commonly accepted interpretation of the four corners in Rev. 7:1 and you can either accept it or not. Beyond that, there's not anything more I can do to help you.

The correct understanding of Rev. 7:1 from virtually every Bible commentator who has ever put pen to paper is that the four corners refer to four quadrants, or sections, or quarters or distant locations in north, south, east and west directions. In fact, similarly, the word "quarters" in Rev 20:8 is used of the same Greek word that is found in 7:1 for corners.

In no way, shape or form did God mean in either case that four angels were standing, or nations were located, exactly on the four specific corners on a square earth. That is just your own private (mis)interpretation. Many of us have told you that. You should accept wise counsel and listen to us.

Similarly, your (mis)interpretations of foundations, pillars, etc., has led you to serious biblical error. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if you, like many others, hung your flat earth belief on what you believe are physical properties that you believe point to a flat earth. But, you adamantly insist that you have biblical support for a flat earth ... and you will not budge. I'm afraid I have to say that Mark 9:42 has been sitting in the back of my mind as I continue to witness your intransigence in the face of so much wise counsel.

It's up to you, brother, put I'd pull back a bit if I were you.

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

_Dave_ said:
I think you posted this for someone else. I haven't been a part of the "square" debate.

But, anyway, I'll give you the commonly accepted interpretation of the four corners in Rev. 7:1 and you can either accept it or not. Beyond that, there's not anything more I can do to help you.

The correct understanding of Rev. 7:1 from virtually every Bible commentator who has ever put pen to paper is that the four corners refer to four quadrants, or sections, or quarters or distant locations in north, south, east and west directions. In fact, similarly, the word "quarters" in Rev 20:8 is used of the same Greek word that is found in 7:1 for corners.

In no way, shape or form did God mean in either case that four angels were standing, or nations were located, exactly on the four specific corners on a square earth. That is just your own private (mis)interpretation. Many of us have told you that. You should accept wise counsel and listen to us.

Similarly, your (mis)interpretations of foundations, pillars, etc., has led you to serious biblical error. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if you, like many others, hung your flat earth belief on what you believe are physical properties that you believe point to a flat earth. But, you adamantly insist that you have biblical support for a flat earth ... and you will not budge. I'm afraid I have to say that Mark 9:42 has been sitting in the back of my mind as I continue to witness your intransigence in the face of so much wise counsel.

It's up to you, brother, put I'd pull back a bit if I were you.

Am I the only one in elementary who has played four square?

As everyone can clearly see you can have a square with four quarters...and I believe that post #343 gives you the geometrical definition for what constitutes a square and rectangle...*yawn* if you look closely you will even see the four corners of the earth on this four cornered square which...also has four sides...

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

@_Dave_ brother...I highly suggest that you revisit geometry and possibly arithmetic in order to learn your basic shapes all over again...because this is very embarassing that...you are messing up so badly on simple terms like 'corner', 'square', 'quadrant', 'four', etc. And this same advice I give to others on this forum as well who seem to be failing very badly at something so elementary...then again Euclid did tell the king:

"There is no royal road to geometry."
- Euclid to Ptolemy Soter I

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
So many people "know" things only 'in the flesh' 'without understanding' and 'not knowing the power of God'.

Only God , not any reasoning, can bring enlightenment and truth and free anyone/someone/ from false knowledge and pride and sin.

Without God's Granting truth specifically and directly from heaven to someone,
it is not possible to receive it/ know it/ understand it/.

As written.

Thus, flat earth, while not possible, is 'believed' due to lack of enlightenment, not due to lack of so-called 'knowledge' or 'reasoning' (of the flesh).

Jesus also asked a very important question when it comes to understanding and comprehension:

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"
- John 3:12

So true...if you cannot understand geometry which deals with measuring the earth then how can you possibly comprehend the measurements of the heavens?

JacksBratt · Apr 10, 2019

Norman70 said:
I have said that I would not bother with flat earthers, but reading their description of it as like a clock face, with the north pole at the centre and the coast of Antarctica to the south, I cannot help but ask whether or not the south Pole exists?
We say it has been visited, and the land mass has been crossed from coast to coast. Of course these endeavours can be dismissed by the great conspiracy theories, in the same way that landings on the moon have been dismissed. I do hope the answer to my question does not employ that device.

No, on the FE there is no south pole..

Look at the map of the guy that said he crossed Antarctica.. What at joke... he went so far.. made a 90 and went out ot the coast... LOL.. and people believe him and honor him.. Sheep I tell you ...........baaaaaa. baaaaaaaa.

I would be embarrassed to do this and say I crossed it.. Look at the vast amount of map to the right... That would be crossing it...

JacksBratt · Apr 10, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Plus if there were literally 4 corners the Earth would be a square or rectangle not a circle like flat earth claims based on a verse saying the circle of the Earth. So which is it? Is FE a circle or does it have 4 corners like a square or rectangle?

Sometimes you have to think outside the box...err circle...er well you know.

JacksBratt · Apr 10, 2019

ewq1938 said:
No planet looks like that, nor does the Earth else someone would have located these protruding corners out of the circular Earth.

You mean right after they found the edge... right?

ewq1938 · Apr 10, 2019

JacksBratt said:
You mean right after they found the edge... right?

The closest thing to an edge is the ground you walk on...the outside edge of the Earth.

JacksBratt · Apr 10, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The closest thing to an edge is the ground you walk on...the outside edge of the Earth.

That is if the world is a globe. Neither model has been proven to me.

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

ewq1938 said:
That last one says pillars of heaven not Earth. The other verse says the Earth is hung upon nothing yet other scripture says the earth is supported by pillars. Which is true?

Let's work backwards from Job 26:11 to 1 Samuel 2:8:

The pillars of heaven shake (Job 26:11)
God set the world (i.e. the heavens) atop the pillars of the earth (1 Samuel 2:8)

In conclusion the pillars are located between the heavens and the earth: therefore the pillars are part of both the heavens and the earth. Ever see the Roman Pantheon in Italy?

This is a rough idea of a dome (heaven) with the pillars (of the heavens and the earth) with the Roman Pantheon (earth) atop a foundation (for the earth).

ewq1938 · Apr 10, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Let's work backwards from Job 26:11 to 1 Samuel 2:8:

The pillars of heaven shake (Job 26:11)
God set the world (i.e. the heavens) atop the pillars of the earth (1 Samuel 2:8)

You are just changing the text to match what you want it to say.

It clearly says the pillars are under the Earth not above the Earth supporting heaven (which is ridiculous anyways since heaven needs nothing to hold it up.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

"hangeth the earth upon nothing"
"he hath set the world upon them (pillars)"

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

"he hath set the world upon them"

world:

H8398
תּבל
têbêl
tay-bale'
From H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension the globe; by implication its inhabitants; specifically a particular land, as Babylonia or Palestine: - habitable part, world.

This word does not have any relation to "the heavens" as you claim.

Taking 1Sa 2:8 literally causes a contradiction. Only by understanding 1Sa 2:8 is non-literal does no contradiction exist. This is a big issue for flat Earthers.

YHWH_will_uplift · Apr 10, 2019

ewq1938 said:
You are just changing the text to match what you want it to say.

It clearly says the pillars are under the Earth not above the Earth supporting heaven (which is ridiculous anyways since heaven needs nothing to hold it up.

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

"hangeth the earth upon nothing"
"he hath set the world upon them (pillars)"

Taking 1Sa 2:8 literally causes a contradiction. Only by understanding 1Sa 2:8 is non-literal does no contradiction exist. This is a big issue for flat Earthers.

No...you just seem to not understand the difference between a foundation and pillars...sigh...when have you seen pillars used for the foundation of a building? The world in 1 Samuel 2:8 is referring to heaven not the earth.

ewq1938 · Apr 10, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
The world in 1 Samuel 2:8 is referring to heaven not the earth.

I have already proven that to be wrong.

Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

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