The Big Bang Theory

SinoBen · Apr 10, 2019

Daniel C said:
The big bang is a theory atheists put together. As nonbelievers they need an alternative to intelligent design and ultimately a creator, so their hypothesis says everything created itself. The universe created itself (big bang) and life on earth created itself (abiogenesis), both proven false using their own methodology: empirical evidence.

I think the reason these false ideas have gained so much traction over the past few decades is NOT evidence but a decline in western culture and the weakening of the church. The church not strong enough to win the hearts and minds of people,so the door has been left wide open for the faith to be undermined by anti God ideas like this.

@Oscarr

This just shows how much we Christians need to take time to fact check before rubbishing everything and anything.

So you are saying that a Belgian Roman Catholic Priest is one of those atheists huh?

The Big Bang says nothing about originator other than something came from nothing in a big bang and that as a result the universe is expanding. And importantly, that there is a Beginning. On it's own it is a religiously neutral model of beginnings. It was because of the BB that those who do not believe in God (the one that sparked the "bang"), had to scramble and explain why something came from nothing in the beginning. Believers in God just sits back and point to Genesis, it is cohesive, God is the creator, the originator. Atheists on the other hand had to come up with the idea of multi-universes, but it's the same problem (where did the multi universes come from?) and they end up going back to eternal universes which is an illogic.

In the end the bottom line is the same:
Science and any knowledge will continue to increase, but it will not fully reveal so as to disqualify human freedom to exercise Faith.

Christopher0121 · Apr 10, 2019

MartyF said:
Quantum mechanics is established science. It works. It is used to design and build things. You’re using it right now.

Bang Bang and Evolution are not even in the same league.

Big Bang, scientifically it makes sense. Evolution... ever breed animals? Ever study microbiology and the evolution of viruses?

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

Oscarr said:
I had a few thoughts about the Big Bang theory. How did it happen. Did it happen spontaneously all of a sudden, or did someone or something light the fuse?

What was there before the Big Bang? The First Law to Thermodynamics says that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So it must have taken a humongous amount of energy to cause it. Where did it come from?

The most prominent and highly qualified scientists say that life has to come from life; that something that does not have life cannot produce life. This is a scientific law.

Therefore, if the Big Bang was a great fiery burst of energy creating mega temperatures that threw white hot material in all directions, wouldn't you think that everything would be sterile and totally devoid of life because of the great heat. We know that sterilizing medical implements kills all bacterial and makes them totally sterile. So, where did the life come from that produced life in the Primeval slime? A bolt of lightning couldn't have caused it because it is not life.

Also, science has proved that the universe is winding down like a clock. One day in the future the sun and stars would burn out. So, if the Big Bang happened a squillion billion years ago, or the universe has always been here, then would the sun and stars all be burned out by now?

It will be interesting if not done already, for scientists to calculate the rate at which the fuel of the sun is being burned up, and to calculate how long it will take for all the fuel in the sun to be used up and the sun will turn into a supernova. If, for instance, as the fuel in the sun burns up, it would get cooler, and just one degree cooler could causes many problems in the world. So, if it takes so many million years for the sun burns out, or that the sun cools down so that all life on earth becomes extinct, then it might be possible to calculate back to when the sun might have been one or two degrees hotter than it is now, causing life on earth not to survive. It would be interesting to find out whether it is millions or just thousands of years.

Your comments will be viewed with interest.

The future of our sun isn't something we have to worry about -- but the sun would make this Earth uninhabitable in about 1 billion years, due to it increasing in irradiance.

If still around, the Earth would have all it's oceans boiled away by the increased sunlight around 1 billion years from now.

But that won't happen, because we know Who is going to be in charge of things, and quite possibly it appears simply replace this reality altogether with a new one.

Astrophysics is a lifelong interest of mine. About the fascinating topic of cosmology and the origin of this Universe, physics is rife with speculative theories now a days to guess at how our Universe is the odd way it is, with the odd situation with the central particle, the Higgs boson, and how this Universe mainstream physicists say is fantastically "fine tuned". Here's a decent article on that:

Is Nature Unnatural?
Complications in Physics Lend Support to Multiverse Hypothesis | Quanta Magazine
(a way to avoid the fine tuned and unnatural situation of our Universe is just to speculate we are only one of an near infinite variety of Universes (like 10^500))
(I think this is pretty readable, but let me know if it isn't, since I'm used to reading this stuff)

It's not possible to prove or disprove God with physics. But that makes sense. Easy proof would preempt and preclude faith, which is what God wants from us. He wants us to trust Him, to show we can have faith, as Christ told us.

The Barbarian · Apr 10, 2019

Aquila0121 said:
Big Bang, scientifically it makes sense. Evolution... ever breed animals?

Yep. Animal breeders directly observe evolution. Is it possible that you don't know what "evolution" is?

Ever study microbiology and the evolution of viruses?

I have a bachelors degree in bacteriology. Viruses are not actually living; they are fragments of nucleic acids with some proteins that get them into cells where they use the living cell to make copies of themselves.

Would you like to learn what bacteria show about evolution?

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

myst33 said:
14 billion years ago

No, because stars had to form first, stars are not of the same age as the Big Bang.

Our sun is roughly 5 billion years old. And an average life span of a star is 10 billion years.

yah. One of the fun things (of so many) in astrophysics is how the estimated lifespan of small red dwarf though, the slowest burning stars, is on the order of like a trillion years ("trillions of years"). I love stuff like that just as the interesting calculation result, even though something else is going to happen first (and that's not the 'big rip' but something from you know Who), and it's merely a theoretical thing....

The Barbarian · Apr 10, 2019

Halbhh said:
The future of our sun isn't something we have to worry about -- but the sun would make this Earth uninhabitable in about 1 billion years, due to it increasing in irradiance.

A bit longer than that.

In approximately 5 billion years, the sun will begin the helium-burning process, turning into a red giant star. When it expands, its outer layers will consume Mercury and Venus, and reach Earth. Scientists are still debating whether or not our planet will be engulfed, or whether it will orbit dangerously close to the dimmer star. Either way, life as we know it on Earth will cease to exist.
Red Giant Stars: Facts, Definition & the Future of the Sun

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

The Barbarian said:
A bit longer than that.

In approximately 5 billion years, the sun will begin the helium-burning process, turning into a red giant star. When it expands, its outer layers will consume Mercury and Venus, and reach Earth. Scientists are still debating whether or not our planet will be engulfed, or whether it will orbit dangerously close to the dimmer star. Either way, life as we know it on Earth will cease to exist.
Red Giant Stars: Facts, Definition & the Future of the Sun

Yeah, that's the simple pop science picture, itself fascinating. Red giant phase, all inner planets but Mars consumed, etc.

But much sooner, in about 1 billion years our sun would boil away Earth's oceans if nothing was done to prevent the natural course of events. Astrophysics is a lifelong hobby interest of mine. It's got so much interesting stuff.

Do you like exotic astrophysics stuff? There's been some cool things lately.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 10, 2019

The Barbarian said:
I've observed the development of new blood vessels in tissues. Did you perhaps mean "abiogenesis" (the emergence of life from non-living matter)?

Since God says that happened, we know that it's a fact.

Life did come from life, because once God had formed the man from the clay of the ground, He breathed life into him.

The Barbarian · Apr 10, 2019

Halbhh said:
Yeah, that's the simple pop science picture, itself fascinating.

Main sequence star. Lasts about 9 billion years. Should be boiling the oceans long after 1 billion years.

But much sooner, in about 1 billion years our sun would boil away Earth's oceans if nothing was done to prevent the natural course of events.

I don't think that's the view of most astrophysicists. (Barbarian checks)

A 10 percent increase in brightness every billion years means that 3.5 billion years from today, the Sun will shine almost 40 percent brighter, which will boil Earth’s oceans, melt its ice caps, and strip all of the moisture from its atmosphere.
The Sun Will Destroy Earth Sooner Than You Might Think

Astrophysics is a lifelong hobby interest of mine. It's got so much interesting stuff.

I got drafted into teaching it for a couple of semesters.

Do you like exotic astrophysics stuff? There's been some cool things lately.

At the center of Messier 87, a massive galaxy in the nearby Virgo galaxy cluster, exists a supermassive black hole. Dubbed M87, this all-consuming region of spacetime is located more than 55 million light-years from Earth and is estimated to have a light-sucking core 6.5 billion times the mass of the sun.

For the first time ever, as shown above, we finally have an "image" of this celestial monster.

"This is a huge day in astrophysics," NSF Director France Córdova said in a statement. "We're seeing the unseeable. Black holes have sparked imaginations for decades. They have exotic properties and are mysterious to us. Yet with more observations like this one they are yielding their secrets. This is why NSF exists. We enable scientists and engineers to illuminate the unknown, to reveal the subtle and complex majesty of our universe."

As Manchester University astronomer Tim Muxlow told The Guardian in 2017, the image captured isn't exactly a direct photo of a black hole as much as it's a picture of its shadow.

black-hole-photo.jpg.653x0_q80_crop-smart.jpg

The first image of a black hole is here

The Barbarian · Apr 10, 2019

Oscarr said:
Life did come from life, because once God had formed the man from the clay of the ground, He breathed life into him.

Actually, according to God, all life came from non-living matter.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 10, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Actually, according to God, all life came from non-living matter.

I don't know what Bible you have but here is what my Bible, the AV says:
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).
Man did not become a living soul until the Living God breathed life into him. Pretty clear to me!

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Main sequence star. Lasts about 9 billion years. Should be boiling the oceans long after 1 billion years.

I don't think that's the view of most astrophysicists. (Barbarian checks)

A 10 percent increase in brightness every billion years means that 3.5 billion years from today, the Sun will shine almost 40 percent brighter, which will boil Earth’s oceans, melt its ice caps, and strip all of the moisture from its atmosphere.
The Sun Will Destroy Earth Sooner Than You Might Think

I got drafted into teaching it for a couple of semesters.

At the center of Messier 87, a massive galaxy in the nearby Virgo galaxy cluster, exists a supermassive black hole. Dubbed M87, this all-consuming region of spacetime is located more than 55 million light-years from Earth and is estimated to have a light-sucking core 6.5 billion times the mass of the sun.

For the first time ever, as shown above, we finally have an "image" of this celestial monster.

"This is a huge day in astrophysics," NSF Director France Córdova said in a statement. "We're seeing the unseeable. Black holes have sparked imaginations for decades. They have exotic properties and are mysterious to us. Yet with more observations like this one they are yielding their secrets. This is why NSF exists. We enable scientists and engineers to illuminate the unknown, to reveal the subtle and complex majesty of our universe."

As Manchester University astronomer Tim Muxlow told The Guardian in 2017, the image captured isn't exactly a direct photo of a black hole as much as it's a picture of its shadow.

The first image of a black hole is here

Yeah saw that today.

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Main sequence star. Lasts about 9 billion years. Should be boiling the oceans long after 1 billion years.

I don't think that's the view of most astrophysicists. (Barbarian checks)

A 10 percent increase in brightness every billion years means that 3.5 billion years from today, the Sun will shine almost 40 percent brighter, which will boil Earth’s oceans, melt its ice caps, and strip all of the moisture from its atmosphere.
The Sun Will Destroy Earth Sooner Than You Might Think

I got drafted into teaching it for a couple of semesters.

At the center of Messier 87, a massive galaxy in the nearby Virgo galaxy cluster, exists a supermassive black hole. Dubbed M87, this all-consuming region of spacetime is located more than 55 million light-years from Earth and is estimated to have a light-sucking core 6.5 billion times the mass of the sun.

For the first time ever, as shown above, we finally have an "image" of this celestial monster.

"This is a huge day in astrophysics," NSF Director France Córdova said in a statement. "We're seeing the unseeable. Black holes have sparked imaginations for decades. They have exotic properties and are mysterious to us. Yet with more observations like this one they are yielding their secrets. This is why NSF exists. We enable scientists and engineers to illuminate the unknown, to reveal the subtle and complex majesty of our universe."

As Manchester University astronomer Tim Muxlow told The Guardian in 2017, the image captured isn't exactly a direct photo of a black hole as much as it's a picture of its shadow.

The first image of a black hole is here

About 1 billion yrs till oceans evaporated. I've read I was recently figuring likely about 8-10,000 astronomy and astrophysics articles, so I'm sorta like a giant bin of info. I just love the topic. Need a link, it prefer to find it yourself? The field is so extensive even the average science writer won't know all that has been figured out, typically.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 10, 2019

SinoBen said:
@Oscarr

So you are saying that a Belgian Roman Catholic Priest is one of those atheists huh?

I read the link. Very interesting and quite a set of valid theories about how God may have created and set the universe into motion. It is a fact that the universe is expanding. But whether it is from a central point and the universe expanded like ripples in a pond when a stone is thrown in; or whether it is radiating out as a semi-circular wave.

One preacher suggested that if we could travel to the outer edge of the universe following the point where God said "Let there be light" and recorded the sound, it could be possible to hear God say, "Let there be light!" among the foremost stars travelling out into empty space. I guess that is a bit far-fetched, but interesting all the same.

But seriously, I can't get away from what God said to Job - that He hung the stars in space, and that He hung the world on nothing. Why would He say that in that way? God could have told Job that He caused a big bang which flung the stars out into space like ripples in a pond; but He did not say that. Was God misleading Job?

"Hanging the stars" suggests to me that God deliberately positioned all the stars and galaxies in their appointed places.

What if, after positioning the components of the universe in their places, He set it in motion, but instead of it expanding, it is actually rotating about a central point, like our world rotating around the sun?

From what we see of the shape of the galaxies that we can see, it seems that the stars in those galaxies are rotating around a central point in the galaxy. So, what if all the galaxies are themselves rotating around a central point in the universe?

A theory like that, may very well explain the movement of the stars and galaxies in relation to earth - scientists can only measure these things from where we are, and what might look like expansion could be rotation. Who's to know?

Just some thoughts to stir the pot and keep it on the boil!

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

Oscarr said:
I don't know what Bible you have but here is what my Bible, the AV says:
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).
Man did not become a living soul until the Living God breathed life into him. Pretty clear to me!

Wind/breath is another way to represent the Spirit, and this may be worded this way to tell us the key thing that Adam had the first individual human spirit given from God, thus the first human 'soul'. If so, which would fit the wording, then other previous types of hominids like Neanderthals may not have had what we think of as the individual God-given 'spirit' (or at least not like ours) which gives rise to our individual 'soul'. We aren't told things like these things clearly in the text, but instead only told key things that are about our relationship with God, and the fall, and the birth of our failure to trust in God, which 'faith' is the reversal of -- to believe in Him is to trust Him.

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

Oscarr said:
that He hung the stars in space,

Wonderfully when we read Job through fully (from chapter 1 through) we gain amazing things, like the truly surprising moment in the middle of the book for instance which no one really earns to know without that through reading I feel.

Another wonderful thing from the full, total reading, is that when you do finally arrive in chapter 38, and read then 38-42, you will certainly from that fullness of total reading, all the verses, clearly and easily see extensive use of metaphors, and very wonderful ones, which will just totally delight the soul!

Our God is so great!

As you know, He created all that is, not just a list of things, of course, and we can understand He would not need to individually create 10^24 stars -- 1000000000000000000000000 one at a time necessarily (!). How could we guess this?

Because as the Creator of all things (not just a partial list of some things), God created then also the very laws of nature itself -- physics, and thus all that flows from physics: chemistry, biochemistry, and all else are His -- His design of nature itself, so thus physics is part of what "was very good" then also.

We can expect the laws of nature -- physics/chemistry -- work very well, as we have found, because God created them.

So, when we figure out how physics leads to the unfolding of the Universe, we are seeing God's design (or a part of it) at work. Praise the Lord! It is magnificent and wondrous, and that's an understatement!

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 10, 2019

Halbhh said:
Wind/breath is another way to represent the Spirit, and this may be worded this way to tell us the key thing that Adam had the first individual human spirit given from God, thus the first human 'soul'. If so, which would fit the wording, then other previous types of hominids like Neanderthals may not have had what we think of as the individual God-given 'spirit' (or at least not like ours) which gives rise to our individual 'soul'. We aren't told things like these things clearly in the text, but instead only told key things that are about our relationship with God, and the fall, and the birth of our failure to trust in God, which 'faith' is the reversal of -- to believe in Him is to trust Him.

How does your definition of the Spirit relate to the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person and not just some force or "wind". Genesis does not say that God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam. We need to be careful to cause the Bible to say something that it does not say.

The Bible does not say that God got a couple of neanderthals together and breathed the Holy Spirit into them. Actually there is no substantive evidence of the existence of a race of such beings before Adam.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 10, 2019

Halbhh said:
Wonderfully when we read Job through fully (from chapter 1 through) we gain amazing things, like the truly surprising moment in the middle of the book for instance which no one really earns to know without that through reading I feel.

Another wonderful thing from the full, total reading, is that when you do finally arrive in chapter 38, and read then 38-42, you will certainly from that fullness of total reading, all the verses, clearly and easily see extensive use of metaphors, and very wonderful ones, which will just totally delight the soul!

Our God is so great!

As you know, He created all that is, not just a list of things, of course, and we can understand He would not need to individually create 10^24 stars -- 1000000000000000000000000 one at a time necessarily (!). How could we guess this?

Because as the Creator of all things (not just a partial list of some things), God created then also the very laws of nature itself -- physics, and thus all that flows from physics: chemistry, biochemistry, and all else are His -- His design of nature itself, so thus physics is part of what "was very good" then also.

We can expect the laws of nature -- physics/chemistry -- work very well, as we have found, because God created them.

So, when we figure out how physics leads to the unfolding of the Universe, we are seeing God's design (or a part of it) at work. Praise the Lord! It is magnificent and wondrous, and that's an understatement!

True. God is all-powerful. That means that God's power is infinite. Nothing is impossible to Him.

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Main sequence star. Lasts about 9 billion years. Should be boiling the oceans long after 1 billion years.

I don't think that's the view of most astrophysicists. (Barbarian checks)

A 10 percent increase in brightness every billion years means that 3.5 billion years from today, the Sun will shine almost 40 percent brighter, which will boil Earth’s oceans, melt its ice caps, and strip all of the moisture from its atmosphere.
The Sun Will Destroy Earth Sooner Than You Might Think

I got drafted into teaching it for a couple of semesters.

At the center of Messier 87, a massive galaxy in the nearby Virgo galaxy cluster, exists a supermassive black hole. Dubbed M87, this all-consuming region of spacetime is located more than 55 million light-years from Earth and is estimated to have a light-sucking core 6.5 billion times the mass of the sun.

For the first time ever, as shown above, we finally have an "image" of this celestial monster.

"This is a huge day in astrophysics," NSF Director France Córdova said in a statement. "We're seeing the unseeable. Black holes have sparked imaginations for decades. They have exotic properties and are mysterious to us. Yet with more observations like this one they are yielding their secrets. This is why NSF exists. We enable scientists and engineers to illuminate the unknown, to reveal the subtle and complex majesty of our universe."

As Manchester University astronomer Tim Muxlow told The Guardian in 2017, the image captured isn't exactly a direct photo of a black hole as much as it's a picture of its shadow.

The first image of a black hole is here

Ah, I see how the confusion about just how long until the oceans were evaporated arose. I shouldn't have used the fun 'boil' in my first statement, because of course they evaporate very long before they get a chance to boil, with this gradual increase in luminosity. Here's an instance of why you'd have the reasonable expectation then it'd be much longer than 1 billion years:

"Approximately 1.1 billion years from now, the sun will be 10 percent brighter than it is today. This increase in luminosity will also mean an increase in heat energy, one which the Earth's atmosphere will absorb. This will trigger a runaway greenhouse effect that is similar to what turned Venus into the terrible hothouse it is today.

In 3.5 billion years, the sun will be 40 percent brighter than it is right now, which will cause the oceans to boil, the ice caps to permanently melt, and all water vapor in the atmosphere to be lost to space. Under these conditions, life as we know it will be unable to survive anywhere on the surface, and planet Earth will be fully transformed into another hot, dry world, just like Venus."
https://phys.org/news/2016-05-earth-survive-sun-red-giant.html

Notice how the 2nd paragraph though is like a different simulation (as if the oceans survived that long).

So if you could transport some liquid water to Earth at at time 3.5 billion years from now (other events not interceding and preventing that timeline), then it would indeed 'boil'

I expect it would be the only liquid water around in that short time until it was boiled away. Earth would have long already lost liquid water on it's surface, long before.

And here's a new thing to add in to the various articles and various simulations. A newer finding from a different field, but very relevant.

(and this article is vastly more concerning right now in the 21rst century too, as you'll see)
https://phys.org/news/2019-02-high-co2-destabilize-marine-layer.html

It's found that enough heating causes the atmosphere to lose high level cloudiness much sooner than even already thought! Therefore the increase in heating after that is more steep, due to the lack of those clouds to block part of the sunlight. That might have an effect on the other models the astrophysicists were using we could think.

Anyway, here's an instance of the older article also:
When will Earth lose its oceans?

While various research groups can of course make different assumptions in their models, this new article above about clouds disappearing sooner than expected seems to suggest all the models have a lot of assumptions that could be improved. But still the longest time frame I've seen for oceans remaining I think was 1.5 billion, and that's the upper side.

Halbhh · Apr 10, 2019

Oscarr said:
How does your definition of the Spirit relate to the fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person and not just some force or "wind". Genesis does not say that God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam. We need to be careful to cause the Bible to say something that it does not say.

The Bible does not say that God got a couple of neanderthals together and breathed the Holy Spirit into them. Actually there is no substantive evidence of the existence of a race of such beings before Adam.

We totally agree the Holy Spirit, praise to God, is part of the divine trinity. I hope you knew that already about me! If you read what I said, and I hope the word is clear, breath/wind represents the Spirit -- "is another way to represent" (such as a dove is a way) -- which is not the same as saying the Spirit is just wind!!. Perhaps it is time to pray! We need His grace, we really do.

John 20:22 When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

Praise the Lord for His amazing Grace and Mercy and Love!

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