LDS Celestial Marriage...100% false.

mmksparbud said:

Well, of course not! There is no need of it.

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Well we will have to agree to disagree about this. The bible is pretty clear that baptism is necessary:
(New Testament | John 3:5 - 7)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:21)

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

He is the way said:

Well we will have to agree to disagree about this. The bible is pretty clear that baptism is necessary:
(New Testament | John 3:5 - 7)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:21)

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

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There is no need of it in heaven!!

mmksparbud said:

You may have worded it differently, however, what it boils down to is what I said. I know you do not agree with what the bible says and that the writings of JS take preeminence over it.

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No, what you say about the pre-earth life many times misrepresents our position. It has nothing to do with JS and the bible, it has to do with what you say about our position, may times it is exaggerated, many times it is put in words that are simply not true, and the ramifications of what we believe may times are not true. Like I say, if you want to tell someone what we believe, copy my posts, or write them down, and use my words, not yours. You do not need to boil it down to your words. Just give them my full version, not your boiled down version. Thank you.

Peter1000 said:

No, what you say about the pre-earth life many times misrepresents our position. It has nothing to do with JS and the bible, it has to do with what you say about our position, may times it is exaggerated, many times it is put in words that are simply not true, and the ramifications of what we believe may times are not true. Like I say, if you want to tell someone what we believe, copy my posts, or write them down, and use my words, not yours. You do not need to boil it down to your words. Just give them my full version, not your boiled down version. Thank you.

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I will do this--I will state what you say---and what I feel it really means. Like this thing about the green apron ceremony. You can say all you want that it does not thank Satan for the fall by which you now can have children---I reserve the right to say that it most certainly does. They can decide for themselves.

Peter1000 said:

If there is anything more misunderstood in the OT, it is the different names of God, starting with Elohim and Yahweh in the first 2 chapters of Genesis. The Church of Jesus Christ has an interpretation of who Elohim and Yahweh and all of the other names of God are. Our interpretation is as foundational and proper as any church or scholar of the bilble that exists. So we stand by our interpretation and feel like what we believe answers the difficult questions with regard to this on-going problem of the names of God.

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Could you address the material and scripture I presented?

"Wait a minute. LDS call the Father 'Elohim'? That's a (Hebrew true plural, 3 or greater) plural word.

Jehovah is the name of God in scripture, and there are at least two Persons named this:

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:24 ויהוה המטיר על־סדם ועל־עמרה גפרית ואשׁ מאת יהוה מן־השׁמים׃

Gen 19:24 wayhwäh him'†iyr al-š'dom w'al-ámoräh Gäf'riyt wäësh mëët y'hwäh min-haSHämäyim

The Son is upon the earth calling the 'fire of God' (Holy Ghost symbolized here) from the Father out of Heaven, and both the Persons of the Son and Father are designated as JEHOVAH.

JEHOVAH Elohiym represents all three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Elohiym has a range of meaning (strong ones, angels, etc), but in that form is always plural in meaning. El is singular. There is also a dual plural,, but Elohiym is true plural (3 or more)."

What does the LDS do with Gen. 19:24? It is clearly speaking of two Persons, in two differing locations, the one JEHOVAH (Son) standing on earth, calling fire down from the other JEHOVAH in Heaven (Father)

HeartenedHeart said:

Could you address the material and scripture I presented?

"Wait a minute. LDS call the Father 'Elohim'? That's a (Hebrew true plural, 3 or greater) plural word.

Jehovah is the name of God in scripture, and there are at least two Persons named this:

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:24 ויהוה המטיר על־סדם ועל־עמרה גפרית ואשׁ מאת יהוה מן־השׁמים׃

Gen 19:24 wayhwäh him'†iyr al-š'dom w'al-ámoräh Gäf'riyt wäësh mëët y'hwäh min-haSHämäyim

The Son is upon the earth calling the 'fire of God' (Holy Ghost symbolized here) from the Father out of Heaven, and both the Persons of the Son and Father are designated as JEHOVAH.

JEHOVAH Elohiym represents all three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Elohiym has a range of meaning (strong ones, angels, etc), but in that form is always plural in meaning. El is singular. There is also a dual plural,, but Elohiym is true plural (3 or more)."

What does the LDS do with Gen. 19:24? It is clearly speaking of two Persons, in two differing locations, the one JEHOVAH (Son) standing on earth, calling fire down from the other JEHOVAH in Heaven (Father)

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Hi @HeartenedHeart, if you want to talk to another person about this, feel free to PM me. I love to chat, just don't post on the CR main board anymore.

HeartenedHeart said:

Could you address the material and scripture I presented?

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I've tried to speak with you about this before.

If a post is too long, most people won't read it.

That goes for anything.

Ironhold said:

I've tried to speak with you about this before.

If a post is too long, most people won't read it.

That goes for anything.

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So, you are saying you won't read the response, even though it would correct your error and you would be set free from your burden?

How did you manage to read the BoM? It's quite long-winded isn't it?

If only persons would use even balances, and weigh their own actions in their own scales.

Jane_Doe said:

Hi @HeartenedHeart, if you want to talk to another person about this, feel free to PM me. I love to chat, just don't post on the CR main board anymore.

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Jesus said nothing in secret, and always taught in the open. If you desire to say anything, let it come into the light, and let it be judged therein.

My purpose here, is not to chat, but to bring the Everlasting Gospel to those in darkness, and to tell of that which is coming upon the whole world, even as it is right now, and so many (including yourself) are about to be swept away in it, because you refuse the light, and choose spiritual darkness. I do not say this in any harsh way, I say it with a heart of sorrow, even as Jesus wept over Jerusalem. For the LDS, among so many others, would rather keep their vain traditions, rather than keep God's commandments (Exo. 20:1-17).

Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

For those who refuse to repent, their families will be taken away from them, their husband, their wife, their children. Their 'marriages' will be disavowed by the highest court in the universe. They walked not in obedience to God, when they had the opportunity to do so, so even that which they have will be taken from them.

HeartenedHeart said:

Jesus said nothing in secret

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I no longer post on the main board here, due to too many horrible experiences. My reaching out via the offer to PM was just that. If that doesn't interest you, I'm sorry.
Have a nice day.

HeartenedHeart said:

So, you are saying you won't read the response,

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I'm saying that it's basic internet etiquette.

The longer something is, the more likely it is that the reader will have trouble actually reading it. This is due to the combination of factors that includes a person's own eyesight and the way information is displayed on individual monitors and by individual internet browsers. For some people, long internet postings can *literally* be like one of those "Magic Eye" visual puzzles from decades past.

Hence, the common courtesy: either preface a lengthy bit of posting with a notice that it's going to be long, or try to break it up into individual postings.

Ever see the abbreviation "TL;DR" anywhere online? It means "Too long; didn't read". That's a popular way of telling people they're info-dumping again and need to slow it down.

even though it would correct your error and you would be set free from your burden?

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I'm going to pretend that this wasn't a personal insult...

How did you manage to read the BoM? It's quite long-winded isn't it?

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Same way most people the world over read their scriptures: a chapter at a time.

HeartenedHeart said:

Jesus said nothing in secret, and always taught in the open.

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Imagine that you're at home when you get an e-mail from work. You go to call the person who sent it to you, only to be interrupted by your neighbors getting together for community tuba practice. At what point do you give up on trying to communicate over the phone and simply head to the office?

There have been a *lot* of instances even here on CF where attempts by various posters to have conversations have been so badly disrupted by third parties as to keep the conversation from happening in the first place.

Hence, Jane and a few other posters now preferring private messages for serious conversations.

My purpose here, is not to chat, but to bring the Everlasting Gospel to those in darkness,

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I've been online almost 20 years now, and IIRC Jane and some of the other posters here have been online for a similar amount of time.

We've seen people descend upon one message forum after another on a moral crusade, only to fail miserably.

Why?

They went about it with the wrong spirit.

Basically, they did only a token amount of "research" into whatever group or topic, came out of nowhere, picked a fight with someone, and were left devastated when their "research" fell apart under even basic scrutiny. I've even seen people suffer mental breakdowns in real time because of this.

Generally speaking, an outstretched hand will reach more people than a closed fist.

HeartenedHeart said:

Jesus said nothing in secret, and always taught in the open. If you desire to say anything, let it come into the light, and let it be judged therein.

My purpose here, is not to chat, but to bring the Everlasting Gospel to those in darkness, and to tell of that which is coming upon the whole world, even as it is right now, and so many (including yourself) are about to be swept away in it, because you refuse the light, and choose spiritual darkness. I do not say this in any harsh way, I say it with a heart of sorrow, even as Jesus wept over Jerusalem. For the LDS, among so many others, would rather keep their vain traditions, rather than keep God's commandments (Exo. 20:1-17).

Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

For those who refuse to repent, their families will be taken away from them, their husband, their wife, their children. Their 'marriages' will be disavowed by the highest court in the universe. They walked not in obedience to God, when they had the opportunity to do so, so even that which they have will be taken from them.

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First of all, I would like to respond to this, since Jane will not.

Have you ever heard of the concept of the "keys of the kingdom of Heaven"?

If you have try to explain what they are and what they do?

There should be a new internet law akin to "Godwin's Law" (the longer an internet argument goes on, the likelihood that one of the parties will compare the other to Hitler and/or Nazis becomes a virtual certainty) which states that "the longer an internet thread involving Mormonism goes on here on CF, the likelihood that the poster Ironhold will mention how long he's been on the internet becomes a virtual certainty."

HeartenedHeart said:

Jesus said nothing in secret, and always taught in the open. If you desire to say anything, let it come into the light, and let it be judged therein.

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Especially that 40 days that he was on the earth after the resurrection. Have any of the apostles written down what he said, other than go ye into all the world and preach and baptize, you know the great commission. Other than that not a lot, so he pretty much taught his apostles, but not in the open, and we surely do not have these words for our benefit.

I wonder what he told the apostles?

In fact what do we even know he did in those 40 days after his resurrection and before his ascension?
Tell me what you know?

dzheremi said:

There should be a new internet law akin to "Godwin's Law" (the longer an internet argument goes on, the likelihood that one of the parties will compare the other to Hitler and/or Nazis becomes a virtual certainty) which states that "the longer an internet thread involving Mormonism goes on here on CF, the likelihood that the poster Ironhold will mention how long he's been on the internet becomes a virtual certainty."

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And that his posts are longer than the posts he is complaining about being long to begin with...

Peter1000 said:

Especially that 40 days that he was on the earth after the resurrection. Have any of the apostles written down what he said, other than go ye into all the world and preach and baptize, you know the great commission. Other than that not a lot, so he pretty much taught his apostles, but not in the open, and we surely do not have these words for our benefit.

I wonder what he told the apostles?

In fact what do we even know he did in those 40 days after his resurrection and before his ascension?
Tell me what you know?

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John 21

mmksparbud said:

I will do this--I will state what you say---and what I feel it really means. Like this thing about the green apron ceremony. You can say all you want that it does not thank Satan for the fall by which you now can have children---I reserve the right to say that it most certainly does. They can decide for themselves.

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They can't decide for themselves because they will not have my side to compare with yours.

The green apron symbolizes the green leaves that Adam and Eve put around themselves when they suddenly realized they were naked, and they did not want to be naked before God. It has nothing to do with thanking satan for the fall. See what I mean. I don't know how you get these ideas.

You are somehow stuck on Adam/Eve and when they could have children. It is a very small deal, and you seem to think it is a great big deal. See what I mean. You are far away from LDS truth.

But tell people what you think. I have actually been invited into peoples houses because they heard the strangest thing from their friend and they wanted to know if it was true. We would have never got into that house except their friend told them a lopsided whopper of a lie about what Mormons believe. So be careful what you say, you may be the very cause of someone opening their doors to us, and becoming a member.

BigDaddy4 said:

John 21

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John 21:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Good chapter, wish we knew all that Jesus said and did.

HeartenedHeart says:

Jehovah is the name of God in scripture, and there are at least two Persons named this:

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This is what I am talking about. You say that the name of God in the scripture is Jehovah and there are 2 Person named this? Is this not confusing?
In Genesis 1, the first God mentioned is Elohim. The KJV the translators translated the Hebrew name "Elohim" as the English name "God". Was that a mistake, did the translators know the real name of God?
In Genesis 2, the second name of God is Yahweh Elohim. The KJV translators translated the Hebrew name "Yahweh Elohim" as the English name "Lord God". Some think Elohim and Yahweh Elohim are the same Person with 2 names. Some believe they are 2 different Persons. Most have no idea that 2 Gods are mentioned in Genesis 1 & 2.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

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There are two, 2 Lord scriptures in the OT. The first is Genesis 19:24 and the other is Psalms 110:1
2 Persons with the same name. What do you think of that? Confusing huh?.

JEHOVAH Elohiym represents all three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

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I would like a reference for this statement.

What does the LDS do with Gen. 19:24? It is clearly speaking of two Persons, in two differing locations, the one JEHOVAH (Son) standing on earth, calling fire down from the other JEHOVAH in Heaven (Father)

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We probably would have translated it: The Son JEHOVAH standing on the earth, calling fire down from ELOHIM the Father in heaven.
Note: When Jesus was dying on the cross, he yelled out Eloi, Eloi. Jesus was crying to his Father Eloi, or El, the singular of Elohim, and asking why El had abandoned him. Interesting don't you think?

Like I say, I believe the translators of the OT had a very difficult time keeping track of God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ and their names, especially when the translators believe in 1 God, and the OT clearly indicates 2 Persons.[/QUOTE]