LUST

ilovejcsog said:

I didn't stay with that one so I didn't know it wandered off or at least I don't remember it.

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It's unfortunate the answer to whether masturbation is ok is so unclear. One could be sinning half their life without ever knowing it. It would be interesting to find out if people have gotten the Holy Spirit while carrying on in this fashion. If the answer is in the negative then this might help clarify the answer. Though this example may cause a stir for cessationists.

ilovejcsog said:

My thoughts are without saying the word to not get bumped is that you can not do it without lust being involved unless in the case of a baby that is just exploring.

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I agree with your summation.

ilovejcsog said:

Personally, the baby thing doesn't enter into it IMO as it is not a sexual thing or a lust thing.

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It IS sexual, but you are correct, it is neither lust nor directed at another person. That was my point. It further illustrates the difference between libido & lust.

Even though adults, additionally, have sexual awareness, we are capable of operating in the same innocence.

ilovejcsog said:

They are not doing it for any relief.

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Both articles included the "O" word.

ilovejcsog said:

"We will always lose if we try and fight it. We can't win that way. But saying to the Lord, "I now
put on goodness and self-control" seems to dilute the lust feelings and cause them to fade."

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That counters lust, but it does nothing to neutralize one's libido.

ilovejcsog said:

Does lust in one form or another ever stop hounding us when we are celibate? Any sure way of getting rid of it short of losing celibacy?

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I don't think so. I don't know of any that stayed celibate, and magically the urge left. Certainly hasn't for me.

Usually people with a low sex drive to start with, just remain with a low sex drive. But I don't think, short of having a hormone deficiency, that you lose your drive. But of course people with hormone problems, usually end up with other negative health effects from that.

So trying to reduce your hormone levels, might lessen the urge, but it brings on other problems.

My advice is to get married.

So... for what it's worth...

I asked the Holy Spirit about this topic and He provided helpful insight.

It is a sexual act when performed outside of the confines of marriage. Even if the individual doesn't utilize inappropriate contentography or direct their thoughts to a specific person, it sets the stage for spiritual issues with continuance.

The first relates to the imparting of ideas that don't hail from you. This is one of the reasons we're told to cast down thoughts and imaginations. However, in this case we're subject to their appearance at a greater degree.

The spiritual harm begins with the introduction of a spirit of lust or perversion. They usually work in pairs and one is a gateway to the other. Lust is the ruler. I was told that when it is fed the desire doesn't abate. It grows and the individual requires more stimulation to achieve the same enjoyment. This is intentional. It's meant to drive you towards deeper perversions which bring in other spirits.

Once they take root its an endless cycle but a deadness creeps in. It isn't about you or the object of your attention (if appropriate). You're somewhat removed. It's very mechanical.

Spiritually speaking, the best way to prevent its presence is vigilance in your thoughts. You must be mindful of what you see, hear, and the company you keep. The smoking gun is discovering the trigger and averting it.

For some, the gateway is boredom, alcohol, stress, or a coping mechanism they've developed. It is rarely about arousal as time progresses. If you're struggling at present begin praying against the spirit of perversion and lust. You should also apply the same tactics towards other strongholds you're facing. They work together to keep you ensnared.

In respect to celibacy, it is possible to remain in that condition without sin even if you've called to marriage. Libido is not an issue. You needn't be ruled by it. The consequences of its indulgence are fierce. Spirit wise, they're hard to cast out. They'll put up a fight for a long while.

Finally, be mindful of your connections. Don't dismiss temptations or assume that nice person isn't doing the same. I was warned about someone I once conversed with who struggled in this area. Though it never came up in our discourse.

Brian Mcnamee said:

you have made a critical error in assuming leaving celibacy removes lust.... it only increases its appetite. God gave us strong drives and it is natural to burn with desire. The key is for you to look at any woman as a possible mate and instead of dating when you find yourself interested you begin a courting process. My nephew is now engaged at 29 and found a good young lady and went to her dad and asked permission to court her. The father talked to the daughter and she was inclined to get to know my nephew. The started to talk and she knew his intention was to seek a wife and not a girlfriend. They liked each other and started counseling together and seeking advice from older married couples. They are now engaged and will be married within a year of the start of the courting process. If you set goals in your life and the top one is to follow the LORD and he gives you the desire for a spouse then you should be preparing your character to be the best husband you can. If you struggle with lust you need to recognize that that is not going to bring you lifelong benefits. That real love is much deeper. If you find a wife you find a good thing. So now start praying for a mate and perparing your heart to be a good man for whoever you find.

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I have been celibate for years. It has no way increased my lust. I have found that if I pray I can be free from that. It works! Once, after prayer, I was shown a scary consequence of giving into lust. That helped a lot, too. You can learn to turn your mind from lustful thoughts. If that were not true, everyone would go to hell since the Savior said that if you even look at a woman (and of course that would apply for a man) lustfully in your heart, then you have committed adultery. Not the path to Heaven.

Also, the Bible no way says that we are all to marry. In fact, we see that some do not marry and that this is considered to be just fine. For one example, Anna, who saw the baby Messiah, had been in the Temple, unmarried, for many years since being a young widow. She was a very righteous person, and obviously was celibate, not engaging in sexual sin, even mental, or the Lord would not have picked her to prophesy about His Son.

ilovejcsog said:

Does lust in one form or another ever stop hounding us when we are celibate? Any sure way of getting rid of it short of losing celibacy?

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In addition to prayer, you might get some tips from the classic book Every Man's Battle. If you are very healthy, a once a week water only fast for 24 hours with prayer can work wonders. I say IF you are very healthy as fasting is stressful, especially to the adrenals, if one has any health issues.

Verv said:

Praying a lot -- in a meditative way -- will give you the power to set lust aside.

It's difficult... But if the mind is trained to let go of ideas and just commit itself to prayer (something that is taught by many Eastern Orthodox Christians), one can get to a point where you can just set lust down.

In Buddhism, it is said that you should treat anger like a hot cup of tea... When you pick up a hot cup that you don't want to hold, what do you do? You just put it down.

You can do that with anger, and you can do that with lust. Of course, lust takes more effort, but with some practice, you can learn to empty the mind through prayer.

I disagree...

I think this might be true in the short term, but once you really get on a roll, it generally works out.

Having said that: there is a reason why monastics tend to live in the mountains in general isolation.

I would say that I moreso disagree with this statement because I feel like stimulating lust via things like inappropriate contentography or actual sexual engagement can result in desiring greater amounts of stimuilation and does nothing to actually abate the lust.

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Amen.

Meditative and contemplative forms of prayer have helped me tremendously. When I realize that I am not my body (flesh), nor am I my mind (soul), I can actually detach from it and observe it from a higher perspective, the perspective of my spirit, the inner man. This allows me to "just put it down" and allow the "chatter" of desires to just be... and then fade. Your comparison to anger is a good one. Contemplative practices work for lust, anger, anxiety, fear, etc. too.

Western Christianity has lost an important dimension of spiritual discipline in neglecting the meditative and contemplative forms of devotion.

We've all sinned. Most have experienced the sin of lust and the actions that follow. But I think Jesus pretty much settled the issue:

Clearly lust in the heart, the eye, and the hand go together. Unbridled lust, including watching erotic entertainments (dancers and entertainers), looking at or watching inappropriate contentography, and masturbation can cause one's whole body to be cast into Hell. If we justify our sin, we will be condemned with it. But if we confess our sin, God is faithful and just to forgive. In order to walk in a place of forgiveness and grace in relation to the lusts we struggle with... we must confess them as SIN.

How to overcome. It might be a little different for everyone. Of course prayer, fasting, and Bible study are essential disciplines. But getting to understand the mind is key.

I'm a veteran. I served 8 years in the United States Army. I have PTSD. My PTSD can bring sudden anxiety, rage, and violent hypervigilance. I don't like the prescription meds they have tried to give me. I prefer more all natural medicine and spiritual disciplines. But in trying to tame the symptoms of PTSD, I have come into greater familiarity with anger, rage, fear, and anxiety. And as a byproduct, this has also helped me to even understand lust.

The mind often runs unattended like a television in a room producing background noise. We catch and let go of these thoughts as they suit us or as the situation allows. We can listen to these thoughts and become convinced that they are us. It's easy to say, "I was just thinking..." But were you? No. Most of the time it was the mind in some form of auto-pilot just chattering away ungoverned like a monkey. With meditation and contemplative prayer, I've discovered that I am not my mind.

Try this...

Find a quiet place where you can be undisturbed. Turn off all technology. Close your eyes and just breathe. Breathe deeply. Pray that God fill you with His love, truth, and light. You might notice some things about the body. An itch. I tickle. Maybe your stomach growling. Eyes closed... push yourself mentally away from your body, observe it as though it is before you. You're not leaving your body or anything... but you are drawing a mental distinction between your mind and your body. Now stay here for a few moments. Stay here until you can definitively sense that you are not your body. Now, you will notice throughout this time of meditation that your mind has been active. It has been thinking of perhaps what must be done in preparation for dinner or work, or some other thing. It might be chattering away about some conversation you had earlier, an argument, disagreement, debate, or what have you. The mind might also be singing the last song you heard. Now... push yourself away from that ball of chatter. Let it keep on chattering. Imagine looking down upon it like an observer. You might notice a deep and ringing silence to your right and left. You have shifted your consciousness to your spirit. You're now unassociated with both your body and your mind. You can fully realize that your thoughts are not you. You can turn down the volume of the mind by pushing that ball of chatter away from you out into the distance. You'll then experience deep and tranquil silence. This is the real you. Your inner man. All you are doing is moving your focused center of consciousness, or self-awareness, away from both mind and body to experience the reality of your spirit.

How has this helped me?

During a PTSD attack, if I catch it in time, I can disassociate myself from the racing thoughts, angry thoughts, rage filled thoughts, and painful flashbacks. I can remove my consciousness from all the inner chaos and find my center in my spirit, where the Holy Spirit abides. Worship and prayer is very deep there in that place. That's the place you might receive a Word from the LORD or a vision from the LORD. I can stay here until my attack winds down and ceases. Or I an observe it going full blast, like watching a hurricane make landfall or spin back out to sea on the news. I can also speak from this place and seek help or quiet without others around me knowing I'm triggered.

Guess what... I've found that this works with lust too. When my body and my mind begin to go down that dark alley, I can put it into perspective. The Bible says that we are to "flee fornication"...

I flee by shifting my consciousness to my spirit wherein the Holy Spirit abides. I get comfortable, close my eyes, and push away the body with it's biological responses to desire... I push away the mind with its sinful thoughts, images, pictures, fantasies, etc. And for a moment, I just observe them. I do this until I can draw the full realization that I'm not my body nor my thoughts. These things are not me, I'm just seeing sin at work within me. And here, I can turn down the volume, the heat, the desire, and allow all that sexual chatter to fade until its gone.

This is truly something that I've learned about meditation that has proven very helpful to me. This is how I "pluck out" and "cut off" those impulses and thoughts that offend me.

While this meditation might help you, remember that you are human. If you sin here it is an adultery of the heart, it's not actual adultery. It cannot destroy your marriage or relationship at this point. This isn't the unforgiveable sin. You can confess your sin and be made white as snow.

Now, I'm aware that some will disagree with my position here. They will either disagree that something is lust, or disagree that masturbation is a sin. And that's okay. There are dimensions to this, angles of this, or perspectives of this wherein they might have a good point. I'm no one's judge. I'm just sharing my thoughts and some personal experience with how I overcome most moments of temptation.

I'm not sure why every post of mine duplicates. I always have to edit it with these remarks because there's no way to delete it.

Aquila0121 said:

We've all sinned. Most have experienced the sin of lust and the actions that follow. But I think Jesus pretty much settled the issue:

Matthew 5:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
​

Clearly lust in the heart, the eye, and the hand go together. Unbridled lust, including watching erotic entertainments (dancers and entertainers), looking at or watching inappropriate contentography, and masturbation can cause one's whole body to be cast into Hell. If we justify our sin, we will be condemned with it. But if we confess our sin, God is faithful and just to forgive. In order to walk in a place of forgiveness and grace in relation to the lusts we struggle with... we must confess them as SIN.

How to overcome. It might be a little different for everyone. Of course prayer, fasting, and Bible study are essential disciplines. But getting to understand the mind is key.

I'm a veteran. I served 8 years in the United States Army. I have PTSD. My PTSD can bring sudden anxiety, rage, and violent hypervigilance. I don't like the prescription meds they have tried to give me. I prefer more all natural medicine and spiritual disciplines. But in trying to tame the symptoms of PTSD, I have come into greater familiarity with anger, rage, fear, and anxiety. And as a byproduct, this has also helped me to even understand lust.

The mind often runs unattended like a television in a room producing background noise. We catch and let go of these thoughts as they suit us or as the situation allows. We can listen to these thoughts and become convinced that they are us. It's easy to say, "I was just thinking..." But were you? No. Most of the time it was the mind in some form of auto-pilot just chattering away ungoverned like a monkey. With meditation and contemplative prayer, I've discovered that I am not my mind.

Try this...

Find a quiet place where you can be undisturbed. Turn off all technology. Close your eyes and just breathe. Breathe deeply. Pray that God fill you with His love, truth, and light. You might notice some things about the body. An itch. I tickle. Maybe your stomach growling. Eyes closed... push yourself mentally away from your body, observe it as though it is before you. You're not leaving your body or anything... but you are drawing a mental distinction between your mind and your body. Now stay here for a few moments. Stay here until you can definitively sense that you are not your body. Now, you will notice throughout this time of meditation that your mind has been active. It has been thinking of perhaps what must be done in preparation for dinner or work, or some other thing. It might be chattering away about some conversation you had earlier, an argument, disagreement, debate, or what have you. The mind might also be singing the last song you heard. Now... push yourself away from that ball of chatter. Let it keep on chattering. Imagine looking down upon it like an observer. You might notice a deep and ringing silence to your right and left. You have shifted your consciousness to your spirit. You're now unassociated with both your body and your mind. You can fully realize that your thoughts are not you. You can turn down the volume of the mind by pushing that ball of chatter away from you out into the distance. You'll then experience deep and tranquil silence. This is the real you. Your inner man. All you are doing is moving your focused center of consciousness, or self-awareness, away from both mind and body to experience the reality of your spirit.

How has this helped me?

During a PTSD attack, if I catch it in time, I can disassociate myself from the racing thoughts, angry thoughts, rage filled thoughts, and painful flashbacks. I can remove my consciousness from all the inner chaos and find my center in my spirit, where the Holy Spirit abides. Worship and prayer is very deep there in that place. That's the place you might receive a Word from the LORD or a vision from the LORD. I can stay here until my attack winds down and ceases. Or I an observe it going full blast, like watching a hurricane make landfall or spin back out to sea on the news. I can also speak from this place and seek help or quiet without others around me knowing I'm triggered.

Guess what... I've found that this works with lust too. When my body and my mind begin to go down that dark alley, I can put it into perspective. The Bible says that we are to "flee fornication"...

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
​

I flee by shifting my consciousness to my spirit wherein the Holy Spirit abides. I get comfortable, close my eyes, and push away the body with it's biological responses to desire... I push away the mind with its sinful thoughts, images, pictures, fantasies, etc. And for a moment, I just observe them. I do this until I can draw the full realization that I'm not my body nor my thoughts. These things are not me, I'm just seeing sin at work within me. And here, I can turn down the volume, the heat, the desire, and allow all that sexual chatter to fade until its gone.

This is truly something that I've learned about meditation that has proven very helpful to me. This is how I "pluck out" and "cut off" those impulses and thoughts that offend me.

While this meditation might help you, remember that you are human. If you sin here it is an adultery of the heart, it's not actual adultery. It cannot destroy your marriage or relationship at this point. This isn't the unforgiveable sin. You can confess your sin and be made white as snow.

Now, I'm aware that some will disagree with my position here. They will either disagree that something is lust, or disagree that masturbation is a sin. And that's okay. There are dimensions to this, angles of this, or perspectives of this wherein they might have a good point. I'm no one's judge. I'm just sharing my thoughts and some personal experience with how I overcome most moments of temptation.

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Wow. What an impressive post.

ilovejcsog said:

Does lust in one form or another ever stop hounding us when we are celibate? Any sure way of getting rid of it short of losing celibacy?

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I believe if you train yourself to refrain from thinking or acting on the lust of the flesh you can overcome it. Draw closer to God and don't stop, even when things seem well, Satan is sneaky and is waiting to pounce. So pray, talk to the Lord and seek Him daily in the Holy Bible.

I have chosen to be celibate because of my partner, we both decided that there's no need for a sexual intimacy in our relationship to be happy, Jesus is the foundation of our relationship and the one who completes it, not the lust of the flesh. Sex was made to be sacred and made for one purpose, to procreate.

Trust that the Lord has the power to deliver you from the Lust of the flesh and you will see the change within yourself, guaranteed!

In the name of Jesus, may these verses and the power of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ cleanse your heart and mind from the unclean desires of the flesh and bring peace to your entire being.

Romans 6:13/6:20-21
Romans 7:15-16
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
Philippians 4:6-8
Philippians 4:13*