Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

_Dave_ said:

OK. You've been told over and over again that you are interpreting verses literally that are meant to be figures of speech.

To persuade me of your sincerity in honoring biblical constancy, all you have to do is admit that you take these figures of speech as being literal. Once you do that I'll never bring it up again.

Isaiah 55:12, “the trees will clap their hands.” You must believe that trees have hands, and they clap.

Matthew 11:18, “For John came neither eating nor drinking.” You must believe that John never ate nor drank.

Proverbs 10:20, “The tongue of the righteous is choice silver.” You must believe some people's tongues are made out of silver.

Mark 16:15 (KJV), “Preach the gospel to every creature.” You must believe in preaching the gospel to your dog and the fish in your aquarium.

Philippians 3:19, “Their god is their stomach …” You must believe people worship their stomachs.

Psalm 17:8, “Keep me as the apple of your eye.” Ouch. I'd like to see that one. But, you must believe it.

Matthew 26:26, “Take, eat; this is my body.” You must believe in eating human flesh.

Mark 1:17, “I will make you fishers of men.” You must believe in using hook and line to fish for humans.

1 Corinthians 12:15 and 16, “If the foot shall say, “Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body…And if the ear shall say, “Because I am not the eye…” You must believe that body parts can talk.

Leviticus 18:25, “The land vomited out its inhabitants.” That one I'd like to see. You must believe the land pukes.

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LOL! The verses you quoted are all examples of idioms ha ha ha! And by definition idioms are phrases or expressions which cannot be understood by the plain words in them. If you can't understand idioms then that must make you an ideologue...

YHWH_will_uplift said:

LOL! The verses you quoted are all examples of idioms ha ha ha! And by definition idioms are phrases or expressions which cannot be understood by the plain words in them. If you can't understand idioms then that must make you an ideologue...

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I'm not sure what you are getting at. Four corners of the earth is as an idiomatic expression as one can get.

"Four corners of the earth" is included in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary as an idiom, the Cambridge Dictionary of Idioms, the American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms, A Dictionary of American Idioms, the Oxford Dictionary of Idioms, and so on.

So, if you take the idiom "four corners of the earth" literally than why don't you believe that trees have hands and can clap, or that body parts can talk?

_Dave_ said:

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Four corners of the earth is as an idiomatic expression as one can get.

"Four corners of the earth" is included in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary as an idiom, the Cambridge Dictionary of Idioms, the American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms, A Dictionary of American Idioms, the Oxford Dictionary of Idioms, and so on.

So, if you take the idiom "four corners of the earth" literally than why don't you believe that trees have hands and can clap, or that body parts can talk?

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Merriam-Webster--and the like you mentioned--are all respectable dictionaries dear brother but, they are not the Word of God. Again by definition an idiom is a phrase or expression which cannot be understood by the plain words in it. The phrase "four corners of the earth" is not difficult to understand by reading the plain words in that phrase which, we are literally being told as a matter of fact that the earth has four corners. Calling a phrase or expression an idiom when it is not in truth an idiom by definition, does not make it an idiom by forcing it to fit into idiom when it does not.

As for why I don't take literally the other phrases you brought up: that is because we know trees don't actually clap or that body parts don't actually talk: therefore I would have a difficult time understanding what you're telling me with the plain words you used therefore I must analyze the context in which those phrases are being used. In the case of Isaiah the trees represent people of the nations; and Paul in his letter is addressing church order by telling the people that just as all of the parts of the body have a special function and role only they can fulfill: the believers who make up the body of Christ each have special functions and roles only each man, woman, and child can fulfill (e.g. praying, encouraging, cooking, prophesying, etc.).

Norman70 said:

I have said that I would not bother with flat earthers, but reading their description of it as like a clock face, with the north pole at the centre and the coast of Antarctica to the south, I cannot help but ask whether or not the south Pole exists?
We say it has been visited, and the land mass has been crossed from coast to coast. Of course these endeavours can be dismissed by the great conspiracy theories, in the same way that landings on the moon have been dismissed. I do hope the answer to my question does not employ that device.

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I agree with you brother on the current model of the flat earth being pushed for it has not actually been proven as a whole with but, rather assumed and popularized. This is why I have been so adamant about piecing together what the Word of God has to tell us about our world and rely on that solely and, to make sure our theories line up with what God has told us. From what I have been able to gather we know this:

God laid a four sided foundation and placed the earth over it.
God has placed pillars on the earth to uphold the heavens.
God placed the world on these pillars and they don't move as the foundation doesn't move.
God has placed a circle to act as the horizon and boundary for the seas.
God sits above the heavens which are circular.
The earth does not move and, the luminaries do move.
No man has been to the ends of the earth or the heavens and been able to tell us their precise measurements.
The length between east and west is greater then the height between heaven and earth.
The luminaries travel in a circuit by rising in the east and setting in the west, continuing under the earth to the south, returning north to come back to the east.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

... we are literally being told as a matter of fact that the earth has four corners.

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Literal, huh? OK, no problem. Give the the literal GPS coordinates of those literal four corners.

I know you can't, so ... moving on to the logical conclusion ... you get to cherry pick what idiomatic expressions you choose to accept as idioms, or what idiomatic expressions you choose to shoehorn into literal meaning.

I mean, man, come on. My office here has four corners. I can measure them to 1/8th of an inch. My house has four corners. I can measure it accurately as well. But your round, flat earth has four corners ... somewhere ... nobody knows where. Man, that is the textbook definition of an idiomatic expression.

And, BTW, most of those dictionaries used the Bible explicitly as the original source of that idiomatic expression.

_Dave_ said:

Literal, huh? OK, no problem. Give the the literal GPS coordinates of those literal four corners.

I know you can't, so ... moving on to the logical conclusion ... you get to cherry pick what idiomatic expressions you choose to accept as idioms, or what idiomatic expressions you choose to shoehorn into literal meaning.

I mean, man, come on. My office here has four corners. I can measure them to 1/8th of an inch. My house has four corners. I can measure it accurately as well. But your round, flat earth has four corners ... somewhere ... nobody knows where. Man, that is the textbook definition of an idiomatic expression.

And, BTW, most of those dictionaries used the Bible explicitly as the original source of that idiomatic expression.

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I would love to give you the coordinates if God already said that we couldn't know the bounds of the earth through king David in Psalms 103:10-12. Not being able to measure the "four corners of the earth" nor being unable to travel to said locations does not turn that phrase into an idiom nor, does it make the ends of the earth non-existent. An idiom is already well defined as an expression or phrase which cannot be understood by the plain words in them. I have demonstrated adequately for you multiple times that the aforementioned phrase is not an idiom and why I do not take the passages you cited previously as being literal for, you quoted passages that are themselves idioms.

ewq1938 said:

Plus if there were literally 4 corners the Earth would be a square or rectangle not a circle like flat earth claims based on a verse saying the circle of the Earth. So which is it? Is FE a circle or does it have 4 corners like a square or rectangle?

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Great point brother which the modern flat earth model does not take into account nor balance with scripture. In reality the earth would be either a square, rectangle, rhombus, or trapezoid as those are the only shapes which have four corners and are two dimensional plane shapes in nature. The Bible is clear that the earth is not a circle nor is it circular: the waters and the heavens are circular. From a top-down view it would look like this:





So if God made it possible for us to reach the ends of the earth safely and live then one would be able to successfully measure our whole world and, they would even be able to see and touch the pillars of the earth which uphold the heavens.

ewq1938 said:

What happened to the four pillars holding the world up?

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They're there if you read 1 Samuel 2:8 and Job 26:11:

God lays the four sided foundation; sets the earth atop the foundation; God places the pillars on the earth; God places the heavens and the world on the pillars.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

If you do not flat earth to be true biblically then please see my reasonings on this solely from the Word of God in posts #258, #259, #261, #265, #266, and #267. You will see that God's Word makes it crystal clear that the earth is flat.

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So many people "know" things only 'in the flesh' 'without understanding' and 'not knowing the power of God'.

Only God , not any reasoning, can bring enlightenment and truth and free anyone/someone/ from false knowledge and pride and sin.

Without God's Granting truth specifically and directly from heaven to someone,
it is not possible to receive it/ know it/ understand it/.

As written.

Thus, flat earth, while not possible, is 'believed' due to lack of enlightenment, not due to lack of so-called 'knowledge' or 'reasoning' (of the flesh).

ewq1938 said:

No planet looks like that, nor does the Earth else someone would have located these protruding corners out of the circular Earth.

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...hmmm... yes...... maybe someone can check &&&goooogle&maps&&& ?

ewq1938 said:

No, he said the Earth has four corners.

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A square has four corners which is why it also has four sides.

ewq1938 said:

In Job it is said the Earth is hung upon nothing so no pillars.

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I never said God placed the earth upon pillars...God says that He placed the pillars on the earth.

ewq1938 said:

Except we can see planets moving around Suns, not the other way around.

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That is based on a heliocentric model. The Bible is clearly speaking of a geocentric model with the planets from the Greek planestai which literally means 'wanderer': therefore because the earth is built upon an immovable foundation, the earth does not move, therefore it is not a planet (i.e. wanderer) so, the Sun, Moon and stars are all planets which 'wander' around the earth.

ewq1938 said:

Man has explored the entire Earth. There is no edge or wall, just continents surrounded by water.

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Sorry brother but you need to learn The Art of War in order to understand information suppression and control. Misinformation is a real thing to confuse the masses and has been used from ancient times; information suppression can be seen from history where whole libraries and documents were burned and destroyed. Now with the media people are much more susceptible to information suppression: you simply don't discuss the information you don't want the people to know about.

And if we have truly "explored the entire earth" then we wouldn't be having this discussion about the ends of the earth as we would have seen them long ago. Therefore Satan uses and manipulates people in power to use the globe earth to hide this fact: remove the dome and we're left in an empty space...Satan knows that you win people over by educating them: therefore to control a mass amount of people you indoctrinate them from a young age...specifically beginning with the youth who will make up the next generation. It's like weeds growing up in a field or garden: let them grow unchecked and they will kill off all of the other plants in your field. Therefore the weeds represent falsehood which must be rooted up and burned.

ewq1938 said:

What happened to the four pillars holding the world up?

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Maybe the pharmakeia purchased them ? (They now deceive the whole world, as written in the Apocalypse chapter 18)

yeshuaslavejeff said:

...hmmm... yes...... maybe someone can check &&&goooogle&maps&&& ?

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Except when you zoom out a certain distance you will notice that the images transition from real live images of the earth to a computer generated image of a globe...makes you wonder why Google can't show you a live image of the globe earth NASA claims we live on...oh wait...that's because we don't live on a globe earth...and which is why NASA has never produced a live image of the earth. This is not difficult to find out as every video they have shown of the "earth from space" is always a CGI clip or image.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

I would love to give you the coordinates if God already said that we couldn't know the bounds of the earth through king David in Psalms 103:10-12. Not being able to measure the "four corners of the earth" nor being unable to travel to said locations does not turn that phrase into an idiom nor, does it make the ends of the earth non-existent. An idiom is already well defined as an expression or phrase which cannot be understood by the plain words in them. I have demonstrated adequately for you multiple times that the aforementioned phrase is not an idiom and why I do not take the passages you cited previously as being literal for, you quoted passages that are themselves idioms.

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Four . Corners . = Plain words.

"Not being able to measure the "four corners of the earth" nor being unable to travel to said locations ..."

So you believe your four corners expression is not an idiom because it can be understood. Yet you admit you can't locate the four corners, nor measure them. In fact, you have no idea that these four corners even physically exist in locality.

Again, textbook definition of an idiomatic expression.

In NO definition of the idiomatic expression "four corners of the earth" is it ever intended to refer to physical corners located in specific locations. The term ALWAYS refers to something denoting an unspecified distance.

But, by your refusal to acknowledge the phrase as an idiom you are saying there are literally specifically four corners somewhere on earth.

Or not.

You can't have it both ways.