Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

JacksBratt

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So ... on the FE, ... no FORCE is required to LIFT objects from the ground ?
No, it's not. It is simply buoyancy... A helium balloon would be surrounded by more dense air which would force the balloon upward.

On the globe, with space being an almost complete vacuum... how does our atmosphere not get sucked away? I mean my vacuum cleaner does not even come close to the vacuum of space, and it can suck up a lot of dirt.

If gravity is some force that is strong enough to counter this obviously strong force of matter moving from a high pressure to an area devoid of any pressure... by holding the atmosphere back from being sucked away.. then,, how do birds fly? How does a helium balloon float away? How do two snooker balls on a snooker table, remain fractions of an inch apart and not gravitate toward each other?
 
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JacksBratt

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There is a reason comments are disabled for this video.

It does not work. For example today - I, in the Czech republic, should see (according to the video at 3:04) the moon in C shape. But actually, it is in D shape, i.e. the exact opposite.
I don't think that the model is specific to any dates.. There are multiple examples of this model..

As for phases of the moon... if you really want to see a thread.. open one about the moon creating it's own light and not reflecting the sun at all.
 
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YHWH_will_uplift

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Before we go praising science, mathematics, and physics too highly let us educate ourselves as to their literal meanings:

science comes from the Latin scientia meaning 'knowledge'

mathematics comes from two Greek words 1) mathema meaning 'science' or 'learned' or 'one who knows' + 2) tehkne meaning 'art' or 'skill'

physics comes from the Greek physus meaning 'nature'

nature comes from the Latin naturia from the Latin niscere meaning 'to be born

In short science and math deal with what we know and the art of learning about what we know. Physics deal with nature, and nature deals with what one is at birth.
 
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A_Thinker

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, it's not. It is simply buoyancy... A helium balloon would be surrounded by more dense air which would force the balloon upward.
What about a 200 lb weight. Do you not need to exert FORCE to LIFT it ?

You only need to exert FORCE to counter FORCE.
 
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A_Thinker

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If gravity is some force that is strong enough to counter this obviously strong force of matter moving from a high pressure to an area devoid of any pressure... by holding the atmosphere back from being sucked away.. then,, how do birds fly? How does a helium balloon float away? How do two snooker balls on a snooker table, remain fractions of an inch apart and not gravitate toward each other?
Gravity's FORCE is mitigated per MASS and DISTANCE. The math works out to explain all of your examples
 
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JacksBratt

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What about a 200 lb weight. Do you not need to exert FORCE to LIFT it ?

You only need to exert FORCE to counter FORCE.
Not necessarily..
Only if there is a force in the first place.. The globe demands a force because, without it.. we all fly away.
However, the FE model needs no force.. down is just... down.. Nothing is flying away because there is no "other side" where people live and have to have some force to hold them there.

Gravity only needs to be the attraction of a large body as a means of explaining how everything stays on a ball.
 
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JacksBratt

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Gravity's FORCE is mitigated per MASS and DISTANCE. The math works out to explain all of your examples
So, it can hold on to Pluto... millions and millions of miles away but two snooker balls are unaffected by each other when only millimeters apart? ....Oh.... OK.....
 
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YHWH_will_uplift

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So, it can hold on to Pluto... millions and millions of miles away but two snooker balls are unaffected by each other when only millimeters apart? ....Oh.... OK.....
Brother JacksBratt why do you keep arguing over the mechanics of a globe earth when scripture clearly proves that it does not support a globe earth of any sort? You are going to keep running in circles...keep in mind for example the literal meaning of the word planet which is from the Greek planestai meaning 'wanderer'. Since the Bible is clear that the earth does not move we can conclude that it is false to declare the earth to be a planet since the Word of God shows that it does not move: therefore it does not wander.
 
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Oldmantook

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Can you, with your two post-graduate degrees, make a very simple flat earth model that explains in the same time day and night, seasons and moon phases?

If you cannot model even such common scenarios, then the idea of Flath Earth does not work and is totally useless for our life and technological development.
With your common sense, did you not even bother to do your own research with just a few mouse clicks? If you did, you would not be asking this question in the first place. In at nutshell, the earth is a flat disc - much like the face of a clock with the North Pole in the center of the "clock" and Antarctica occupying the edges of the clock. The sun and moon are in the firmament as Genesis attests to, thus these two bodies of light are smaller and closer to the earth than we are brainwashed into believing. As the sun and moon move in clockwise fashion around the face of the clock they cast their light upon the face of the earth giving daylight during the day and moonlight during the night.
The sun is close and small and circles around and above the flat earth in a spiral pattern on the Tropic of Cancer in the Northern Summer months, and then down to the Tropic of Capricorn in the Northern Winter Months. So when the sun is further away from the North Pole, it’s winter in the north and summer in the south.
I suggest you inform yourself, do your own due diligence which I assume you are capable of doing and come to your own conclusion.
 
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YHWH_will_uplift

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With your common sense, did you not even bother to do your own research with just a few mouse clicks? If you did, you would not be asking this question in the first place. In at nutshell, the earth is a flat disc - much like the face of a clock with the North Pole in the center of the "clock" and Antarctica occupying the edges of the clock. The sun and moon are in the firmament as Genesis attests to, thus these two bodies of light are smaller and closer to the earth than we are brainwashed into believing. As the sun and moon move in clockwise fashion around the face of the clock they cast their light upon the face of the earth giving daylight during the day and moonlight during the night.
The sun is close and small and circles around and above the flat earth in a spiral pattern on the Tropic of Cancer in the Northern Summer months, and then down to the Tropic of Capricorn in the Northern Winter Months. So when the sun is further away from the North Pole, it’s winter in the north and summer in the south.
I suggest you inform yourself, due your own due diligence which I assume you are capable of doing and come to your own conclusion.
Okay slow down brother...scripture is clear that the earth is flat yes...and you are right on a few points regarding the nature of the earth and that the Sun, Moon and stars act as a giant heavenly clock and, that they are local as God placed them in the firmament to give light upon the earth. That being said do you have any video evidence of the Sun and Moon moving in a clockwise direction? Our eyes see the Sun and Moon rising and setting which would indicate that their circuit is not a circuit we observe on a regular clock or, as the current flat earth models suggest from a top-down view. What I mean is that they rise in the east, set in the west, and go under the earth to return to the east in order to complete their circuits. And in addition Psalms 103:10-12 let's us know that no man knows or has found the bounds of the heavens and the earth and, that the length from east to west is greater than the height between the heavens and the earth.

So let's make sure that our conclusions match up with scripture before we too readily adopt any unproven flat earth model. We must test the spirits brothers and sisters for there are many wolves in sheeps clothing who spread disinformation. Therefore the only information we can truly rely on and not doubt is that of God's Word.
 
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A_Thinker

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Not necessarily..
Only if there is a force in the first place.. The globe demands a force because, without it.. we all fly away.
However, the FE model needs no force.. down is just... down.. Nothing is flying away because there is no "other side" where people live and have to have some force to hold them there.

Gravity only needs to be the attraction of a large body as a means of explaining how everything stays on a ball.
Have you ever been on one side of a tug-of-war ?

Forces are only necessary when counteracting other forces.

If there was no force holding an object to the ground, ... YOU wouldn't have to exert any force to move it.

That's basic physics, whether you're taking specifically about gravity or not ...
 
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A_Thinker

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So, it can hold on to Pluto... millions and millions of miles away but two snooker balls are unaffected by each other when only millimeters apart? ....Oh.... OK.....
Yes ... that's true.

Do the MATH, ... rather that trust your intuitions ...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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My interest is in the interface between science and religion. For me there is no differentiation, science is one of God's gifts and we need to use it wisely. I wanted to join in on a thread on this subject, but there are so many that I am starting my own.
To begin, there is no way in the reality of our physical observation of the earth it cannot be a sphere. Anyone who argues against that are ignorant. No disrespect there, we are all ignorant when we do not know about something.
God gave us the gift of science, and science is telling us that the earth is a sphere.
This argument must be shelved,, unless God encourages us to continue it.

"Flat earth beliefs are total are totally in error. "
The title is almost correct. Flat earth is wrong, but their beliefs are not all wrong.

Their beliefs that government and medicine and science agencies all lie (being pernicious, wicked, sinful, "for money", "for power", whatever reason if any)
is truth.

That might be (part of ) the reason some of them also lean towards flat earth, though it does not make flat earth true.
 
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YHWH_will_uplift

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Have you ever been on one side of a tug-of-war ?

Forces are only necessary when counteracting other forces.

If there was no force holding an object to the ground, ... YOU wouldn't have to exert any force to move it.

That's basic physics, whether you're taking specifically about gravity or not ...
"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."
- Job 26:7

It is clear here that the heavens and the earth need no outside force acting on them to hold them in place. And this lines up perfectly with the words of Moses:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
- Genesis 1:1

When God created the heavens and the earth from the beginning there was nothing but empty space! Therefore there is no required force according to God to hold objects to the ground so, why then do objects fall back to the ground? Well according to the Word of God that is very simple: all things return to their point of origin therefore things of the earth go back to the earth, things of the seas go back to the seas, and things of heaven go back to heaven. Therefore anything made of the earth will by necessity fall back to the earth as it is made from the earth. And that is why we cannot hold our breath for very long because the air we breath comes from the air: therefore it wants to go back to where it came from. And this is why the creatures who can only live in water die on land for they came from the water and wish to be there.
 
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JacksBratt

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Yes ... that's true.

Do the MATH, ... rather that trust your intuitions ...
You only need it to be a "force" if you want things to stick to it.
It's not a force if down is just... well,..... down.
 
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YHWH_will_uplift

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"Flat earth beliefs are total are totally in error. "
The title is almost correct. Flat earth is wrong, but their beliefs are not all wrong.

Their beliefs that government and medicine and science agencies all lie (being pernicious, wicked, sinful, "for money", "for power", whatever reason if any)
is truth.

That might be (part of ) the reason some of them also lean towards flat earth, though it does not make flat earth true.
If you do not flat earth to be true biblically then please see my reasonings on this solely from the Word of God in posts #258, #259, #261, #265, #266, and #267. You will see that God's Word makes it crystal clear that the earth is flat.
 
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Oldmantook

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Okay slow down brother...scripture is clear that the earth is flat yes...and you are right on a few points regarding the nature of the earth and that the Sun, Moon and stars act as a giant heavenly clock and, that they are local as God placed them in the firmament to give light upon the earth. That being said do you have any video evidence of the Sun and Moon moving in a clockwise direction? Our eyes see the Sun and Moon rising and setting which would indicate that their circuit is not a circuit we observe on a regular clock or, as the current flat earth models suggest from a top-down view. What I mean is that they rise in the east, set in the west, and go under the earth to return to the east in order to complete their circuits. And in addition Psalms 103:10-12 let's us know that no man knows or has found the bounds of the heavens and the earth and, that the length from east to west is greater than the height between the heavens and the earth.

So let's make sure that our conclusions match up with scripture before we too readily adopt any unproven flat earth model. We must test the spirits brothers and sisters for there are many wolves in sheeps clothing who spread disinformation. Therefore the only information we can truly rely on and not doubt is that of God's Word.
I suppose your scenario is plausible but it is also based on an argument of silence (sun/moon go under the earth) which is a weak form of argumentation since Scripture does not say that those bodies of light go under the earth.
 
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_Dave_

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If you do not flat earth to be true biblically then please see my reasonings on this solely from the Word of God in posts #258, #259, #261, #265, #266, and #267. You will see that God's Word makes it crystal clear that the earth is flat.

OK. You've been told over and over again that you are interpreting verses literally that are meant to be figures of speech.

To persuade me of your sincerity in honoring biblical constancy, all you have to do is admit that you take these figures of speech as being literal. Once you do that I'll never bring it up again.

Isaiah 55:12, “the trees will clap their hands.” You must believe that trees have hands, and they clap.

Matthew 11:18, “For John came neither eating nor drinking.” You must believe that John never ate nor drank.

Proverbs 10:20, “The tongue of the righteous is choice silver.” You must believe some people's tongues are made out of silver.

Mark 16:15 (KJV), “Preach the gospel to every creature.” You must believe in preaching the gospel to your dog and the fish in your aquarium.

Philippians 3:19, “Their god is their stomach …” You must believe people worship their stomachs.

Psalm 17:8, “Keep me as the apple of your eye.” Ouch. I'd like to see that one. But, you must believe it.

Matthew 26:26, “Take, eat; this is my body.” You must believe in eating human flesh.

Mark 1:17, “I will make you fishers of men.” You must believe in using hook and line to fish for humans.

1 Corinthians 12:15 and 16, “If the foot shall say, “Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body…And if the ear shall say, “Because I am not the eye…” You must believe that body parts can talk.

Leviticus 18:25, “The land vomited out its inhabitants.” That one I'd like to see. You must believe the land pukes.
 
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YHWH_will_uplift

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I suppose your scenario is plausible but it is also based on an argument of silence (sun/moon go under the earth) which is a weak form of argumentation since Scripture does not say that those bodies of light go under the earth.
There are many things in which the scripture does not directly speak brother. This is because God is challenging us to exercise our two different forms of reasoning:

1) Deductive (literally 'draw out')
2) Inductive (literally 'draw in')

And He also wishes us to use two types of evidence to come to our conclusions:

1) Direct evidence
2) Circumstantial/Indirect evidence

Scripture does not directly tell us how many days, weeks, months, and seasons there are in a year but, a careful reading of the story of Noah informs us that the flood lasted for 1 Year and 10 Days (Genesis 7:6, 11 cf. 8:13-14) and the year begins with Noah's birthday on the 1st Day of the 1st Month (Genesis 8:13). Therefore this informs us that the Sun completed 374 Days while the Moon only completed 354 Days but, why is this? That is because the Moon wanders from its path--which is why we see it in the day with the Sun at times--and falls behind the Sun 10 Days each year: therefore the Sun has an over/surplus of 10 Days. When we subtract those surplus days from the Sun and add them to the Moon we have:

Sun 364 Days | Moon 364 Days

therefore 364 Days / 52 Weeks = 7 Days per Week

And we know from scripture that 7 Days = 1 Week because God worked the first 6 Week Days (i.e. Sunday-Friday) and rested on the 7th Day of the Week (i.e. Saturday).

This means that...

364 Days / 4 Seasons = 13 Weeks per Season
13 Weeks x 7 Days = 91 Days per Season
91 Days x 4 Seasons = 364 Days per Year

Therefore the year is base 360 Days with 4 Seasonal Days intercalated at the end of each season.
 
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