Do those believing in “grace only” fear the Lord?

GodsGrace101 said:

Agreed.
It's called sanctification or progressive justification.
(there's no such idea in the N.T. as OSAS)

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Just read John 10:28 and say that with a straight face.

BCsenior said:

Some people keep repeating ONE verse as proof of their false doctrine.

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How can ANY verse from the Bible fall into the category of "false doctrine"? That is worse than absurd.

Actually, some people just keep rejecting what Jesus said so very clearly.

Not only is this a ludicrous practice, but they misunderstand this particular verse, not realizing that it is another one of those CONDITIONAL verses in the NT.
The conditions are stipulated in the previous verse!

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Evidence of an inability to read English!!

There is NO "conditional language in v.27. That verse is a description of what His sheep (believers) are to DO. NOT how they become sheep, as this poster seems to believe.

Further, the only "condition" that we find in v.28 is the result of being given eternal life. The recipient shall never perish.

So, when the condition is met; ie, the person is given eternal life, the result is that they shall never perish.

It couldn't be more clear. But since this poster has an unbiblical agenda, he won't admit his agenda is unbiblical. Even though it is.

BCsenior said:

Lots of times, people respond before I finish writing.

There are several NT verses which appear to teach OSAS.

It's a bit of a long story, but the rest of the NT reveals
just exactly what "saving belief" and "saving faith" are!

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I think you used the right word when you said APPEARED.

The problem is that scripture cannot contradict itself or we'd have to stop depending on it.

So...there must be an explanation for the verses you're talking about.

Some scripture also appears to support calvinism, but that cannot be right either.

Are we disagreeing?
It's OK if we are. But one of us has to be wrong,,,that's the problem. The question is:
Will God care?

FreeGrace2 said:

That's pretty much Satan wants all believers to think. That there are no consequences for His children.


Sure. And go ahead and dismiss what the Bible says about fellowship with the Lord. I never even suggested that fellowship is some kind of "buddy system". That is absurd.

And I gave an example of fellowship that parallels our fellowship with the Lord, using the Bible's own words.

The Bible calls believers the BRIDE of Christ, and Christ as the GROOM. Comprendo?

Anyone who has ever been married, or even observed married couples should easily be able to understand the difference between married couples that are IN fellowship with each other and married couples who are OUT OF fellowship with each other.

Since you seem to bristle at the word "fellowship", let's substitute for "harmony". Are you interested in harmony with the Lord or not?

There are 2 verses that tell believers to STOP grieving/quenching the Holy Spirit. Does that sound like being IN or OUT OF fellowship, or harmony?

Can you discern the issue here?

Some verses regarding fellowship with the Lord:

1 Cor 1:9 - God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Cor 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

1 John 1:3 - that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1 John 1:6 - If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin

I found the introduction to 2 John in the ESV to be interesting. Here is a statement from that introduction:

"Only when you find agreement on sound doctrine will you find meaningful fellowship."

True words.

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This is the consequence:

ETERNITY AWAY FROM GOD.

No Other.
No halfway point or place or concept.

One is either with God or against God.
Words of Jesus.
Those not against us are for us.
Those not for us are against us.

FreeGrace2 said:

Sounds like Savior and co-savior; Jesus and yourself. Unbiblical.

Jesus did it all. Man can do nothing except receive the gift of eternal life through faith.

Eph 2-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.


If that were true, then Christ died for NOTHING. He paid the price of sin because we can't. No matter how well one sets themselves apart (sanctification), it ain't gonna be good enough.


No it isn't.


This poster has not, because he cannot, provide ANY verse that supports his opinions.

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Jesus didn't DO IT ALL.
YOU have your part to play in your own salvation.
YOU serve GOD.
GOD does NOT SERVE YOU.

FreeGrace2 said:

Sounds like Savior and co-savior; Jesus and yourself. Unbiblical.

Jesus did it all. Man can do nothing except receive the gift of eternal life through faith.

Eph 2-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.


If that were true, then Christ died for NOTHING. He paid the price of sin because we can't. No matter how well one sets themselves apart (sanctification), it ain't gonna be good enough.


No it isn't.


This poster has not, because he cannot, provide ANY verse that supports his opinions.

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Are you really serious?

Revelation 21:27
27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.


If you notice,,,,the above does not say anything about being born again...it only speaks as to our condition...if we are unclean we will NOT get into heaven.

Stop expecting Jesus to do YOUR work.

FreeGrace2 said:

Just read John 10:28 and say that with a straight face.

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Why?
It's YOU who does not understand John 10:28,,,,
It suits you not to understand it...but God will not be mocked.

GodsGrace101 said:

This is the consequence:

ETERNITY AWAY FROM GOD.

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There's only ONE REASON for such a consequence, and the Bible tells us in very plain words.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Do you believe these 2 verses? If you do, please explain what they mean to you.

No Other.
No halfway point or place or concept.

One is either with God or against God.
Words of Jesus.
Those not against us are for us.
Those not for us are against us.

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Awaiting your answer and possible explanation.

GodsGrace101 said:

Jesus didn't DO IT ALL.
YOU have your part to play in your own salvation.

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This is just blasphemy. The Bible says He did. I believe the Bible.

YOU serve GOD.
GOD does NOT SERVE YOU.

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And how is any of this relevant to this discussion? Please advise.

If you think that by 'service to God' you earn or deserve salvation, you aren't even close to understanding what salvation is, or how to have it.

But, regarding service, just count the number of times Jesus Christ is described and called a "servant".

Also, recall what Jesus did during the Last Supper, when He went about washing the feet of His disciples, in John 13.

Didn't you get His point?

I said:
"Sounds like Savior and co-savior; Jesus and yourself. Unbiblical.

Jesus did it all. Man can do nothing except receive the gift of eternal life through faith.

Eph 2-
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.


If that were true, then Christ died for NOTHING. He paid the price of sin because we can't. No matter how well one sets themselves apart (sanctification), it ain't gonna be good enough."

GodsGrace101 said:

Are you really serious?

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I'm just as serious as Eph 2:8,9, 1 Tim 1;16, John 5:24 and 6:47 are. Why? Aren't you?

Revelation 21:27
27and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

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Didn't you know that when believers receive their resurrection bodies, they will be "like Him". They will not have any sin left.

If you notice,,,,the above does not say anything about being born again...it only speaks as to our condition...if we are unclean we will NOT get into heaven.

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One has to ignore or outright reject a whole lot of Scripture to come up with that doozy.

John 3:3 - Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

The lack of biblical knowledge is quite evident in your posts. You should read more.

Stop expecting Jesus to do YOUR work.

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How about ceasing such blasphemy.

You can't do enough work to get into heaven. It's total arrogance to think you can.

Here are some verses about why Jesus had to die for all of mankind:

For whom did Jesus come to save? The sick, the lost, the poor, the unrighteous, the ungodly, and sinners.

Matt 9:12 On hearing this, Jesus said, it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once FOR ALL, the righteous (Christ) for the unrighteous (humanity, all of them), to bring you to God.
Rom 5:6 You see, just at the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.

Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

The entire human race is described as sick, lost, poor, unrighteous, ungodly, and sinners. Every single one of us.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Just read John 10:28 and say that with a straight face.

GodsGrace101 said:

Why?
It's YOU who does not understand John 10:28,,,,

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Oh, really?

It's the Arminians who are forced to twist it totally out of its clear meaning.

They do that by claiming there is a condition in v.27 to be met before His sheep will never perish, when NO SUCH CONDITION exists in v.27.

If one really wants to see a condition, it's in v.28. The condition for never perishing is found in the first part of the verse; being given eternal life.

It suits you not to understand it...but God will not be mocked.

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It's those who arrogantly claim that man must "help" God out by effort/works/deeds that mock the work of Christ on the cross.

But, you're right. God will NOT be mocked. Those who mock Him by claiming they have any part in their own salvation aren't going to get away with it.

btw, the passive action of receiving the gift of eternal life isn't "having a part" in salvation.

Any more than a drowning man "has a part" in his rescue by a lifeguard, who pulls him to shore and out of the water.

If you were far from shore and were drowning, and a lifeguard came and rescued (saved) you from drowning and pulled you to shore and out of the water, would you have the audacity and/or arrogance to claim that you helped the lifeguard?

I surely hope not. That would be irrational and unbalanced.

BCsenior said:

Okay brother, but I prefer the following ...

Revelation 21:7-8
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,
and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,
idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
which is the second death.”

Brother, who are the (victorious) overcomers?
And who are the cowardly (hint: end-times)?

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Those with spiritual discernment will easily see that the FIRST TWO items on the list in these verses deal with UNBELIEF.

So the list is about unbelievers. Not believers who commit these specific sins.

Obviously.