Traditions of men (continued from TAW)

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
Devotion to Mary does not equal worship. Altar calls are also not Scriptural, nor is the word "Bible" or " Trinity".
Mary WAS saved by God before she was born. (BTW, the passage doesn't say "All have sinned except Jesus.")

I wasn’t quoting those passages

Here they are

Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

Hebrews 4:15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”

And a few more

and Mary said,

Luke 1:47. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.”

1 Timothy 1:15. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

Albion · Apr 10, 2019

Re Post #200:

Very true.

Notice that the two sentences following have nothing to do with each other. It is a perfect non-sequitur. The assertion made in the second sentence is simply stipulated. That was so that the claim would conform to the doctrines of a particular denomination, but it is not connected to the info in the first sentence. :sigh:

Root of Jesse said:
But Jesus told us, in the gospel of John, when he looked at John, "Behold your mother." Mary is the mother of the Christian Church.

ChicanaRose · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
Reread it. The fact is that Adonijah knew that the Queen would take the request to the King.
BTW, the Catechism does not only teach v 20. Almost every line of Scripture, OT And NT are cited in the Catechism. As for RCIA, you cannot learn the entire Faith in 6 months. You only scratch the surface. Intercessory prayer (prayer to Mary or the saints, or praying for you husband or child) is Biblical.

There is no reference in the NT that connects Mary and Jesus' relationship to Bathsheba and Solomon's.

Rather, NT clearly points to the Davidic kingship of Jesus through the line of fathers, not mothers.

Anyone can take a passage from each testament and combine them together to justify his practice. But when you look at the puzzle pieces closely, sometimes you discover they don't actually fit together.

ChicanaRose · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
BTW, the Catechism does not only teach v 20. Almost every line of Scripture, OT And NT are cited in the Catechism.

I'm sorry I didn't specify, I didn't mean the CCC. By Catechism, I was referring to children's catechesis (Catechism class, not the book).

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
This is false. There are large underground basilicas preserved in Rome. Why underground? Because the Church was illegal until Constantine's time.

I was saying that they still met in homes all over the world and some did meet in Rome in catacombs during persecution. But the home meetings were in many places not just Rome. And they initially were even led by the Spirit to meet in homes in Rome as well. This was the apostolic order from God of how to gather and where and what things needed to be set in order in the gatherings.

“Likewise greet the church that is in their house.” (Romans 16:5)

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
Once again, what you're missing is that the NT only covers the history of the first generation of Christianity. When the Church got too big for home worship, they built buildings.

the main building projects started much later with Constantine. This caused a great problem.

also when a home meeting gets to large we start another one and keep growing all over.

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
Matthew 12:47-50. "Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?49. And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

Right,, and his mother, above all others did the will of His Father who is in heaven. The Church is his mother, and his brethren.

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
I wasn’t quoting those passages

Here they are

Romans 3:23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

Hebrews 4:15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”

And a few more

and Mary said,

Luke 1:47. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.”

1 Timothy 1:15. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”

And as I said, Mary was saved, yet in a unique way. But there is Biblical precedent for a woman being created without sin...

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

ChicanaRose said:
There is no reference in the NT that connects Mary and Jesus' relationship to Bathsheba and Solomon's.

Rather, NT clearly points to the Davidic kingship of Jesus through the line of fathers, not mothers.

Anyone can take a passage from each testament and combine them together to justify his practice. But when you look at the puzzle pieces closely, sometimes you discover they don't actually fit together.

And yet, the Church has shown us that the do actually fit together. And while David was the king, and his son Solomon, the mother, Bathsheba, was the queen.

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

ChicanaRose said:
There is no reference in the NT that connects Mary and Jesus' relationship to Bathsheba and Solomon's.

Rather, NT clearly points to the Davidic kingship of Jesus through the line of fathers, not mothers.

Anyone can take a passage from each testament and combine them together to justify his practice. But when you look at the puzzle pieces closely, sometimes you discover they don't actually fit together.

.

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
I was saying that they still met in homes all over the world and some did meet in Rome in catacombs during persecution. But the home meetings were in many places not just Rome. And they initially were even led by the Spirit to meet in homes in Rome as well. This was the apostolic order from God of how to gather and where and what things needed to be set in order in the gatherings.

“Likewise greet the church that is in their house.” (Romans 16:5)

So what? Priests celebrate Mass practically anywhere, from a home, to a battlefield. A parish Church, though, is the ordinary place where we celebrate Mass. I recently went to a Mass celebrated in a cemetery.

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
the main building projects started much later with Constantine. This caused a great problem.

also when a home meeting gets to large we start another one and keep growing all over.

Or, you build a bigger edifice consecrated to the glory of God. And more people can come.
I don't know what you think the connection of Constantine to the Catholic Church was. But he was the emperor, and he legalized Christianity. Nothing more, really. He didn't even get baptized until he was near death. His mother, though, convinced him to legalize Christianity, as she was a Christian.

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

ChicanaRose said:
I'm sorry I didn't specify, I didn't mean the CCC. By Catechism, I was referring to children's catechesis (Catechism class, not the book).

I do not hold any love for the way we catechize our children. But that duty, to catechize our children, belongs in the home. The Church has done a poor job of teaching the faith to both newcomers and children.

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
Right,, and his mother, above all others did the will of His Father who is in heaven. The Church is his mother, and his brethren.

No Jesus was simply telling John to take care of Mary as his own mother.

But Jesus calls all his mother brothers and sisters who do the will of God.

Also the Pope crowned a statue of Mary as the Queen of heaven

"Pope Francis crowned a statue of Mary and proclaimed her “Queen of Heaven” before a packed crowd of adoring onlookers in Chile." (Apostasy Alert: Pope Francis Crowns Statue of Mary As “Queen of Heaven”)

But to call Mary the Queen of heaven is false and error of the highest magnitude.

We know who the Queen of heaven is from scripture and Israel also sinned in similar acts

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."

some of the ancient goddesses had a mother with a child in the statues.

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
So what? A parish Church,.

the church is not a man made building, but a living body made up of lively stones, a spiritual house, the body of Christ as scripture says. Never is a man made building of brick and mortar called the church that Jesus is building.

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
Or, you build a bigger edifice consecrated to the glory of God. And more people can come.

No, I never said that. I said when the meetings in homes get to be too many people, we start another home meeting in a brother or sisters house in a different place.

It would be great if there was a church meeting in a home on every street.

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
Statues represent the real people, that's who we ask to pray for us.None of that constitutes worship. It constitutes honor. You honor your mother and father, I'm sure. We consider Mary the mother of the Church.Praying for the saint's intercession.
None of these are 'worship'. Private revelations are not required to be believed. But what they are are messages from the Mother of our Lord.

If you wear a scapular and think that you will escape from the torments of hell by doing so, that is another gospel and false and a great error that many practice today.

on the scapular it says

"Whoever dies clothed in this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire"

that denies the work of Christ on the cross for our sin. No man can be saved by wearing a piece of cloth with words on it. That is another gospel.

We must keep in memory the gospel (1 Cor 15:1-5) to be saved in the end

Yet, as I understand many so called "popes" have worn one.

LoveofTruth · Apr 10, 2019

Root of Jesse said:
Or, you build a bigger edifice consecrated to the glory of God. And more people can come.
I don't know what you think the connection of Constantine to the Catholic Church was. But he was the emperor, and he legalized Christianity. Nothing more, really. He didn't even get baptized until he was near death. His mother, though, convinced him to legalize Christianity, as she was a Christian.

if the gathering is too big all cannot share their gifts with eachother easily. There is wisdom in a home meeting deliberately smaller, so that all can have a meal and share their gifts and edify one another as they are commanded to do in scripture (1 Cor 14:26-28 KJV)

Root of Jesse · Apr 10, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
No Jesus was simply telling John to take care of Mary as his own mother.

If Jesus had brothers and sisters, this would make no sense. But John at the foot of the Cross represents the entire Church, and since his real mother was there at the foot of the cross as well, Jesus gave his mother as John's spiritual mother.

But Jesus calls all his mother brothers and sisters who do the will of God.

Also the Pope crowned a statue of Mary as the Queen of heaven

"Pope Francis crowned a statue of Mary and proclaimed her “Queen of Heaven” before a packed crowd of adoring onlookers in Chile." (Apostasy Alert: Pope Francis Crowns Statue of Mary As “Queen of Heaven”)

But to call Mary the Queen of heaven is false and error of the highest magnitude.

We know who the Queen of heaven is from scripture and Israel also sinned in similar acts

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."

some of the ancient goddesses had a mother with a child in the statues.

Nope. Jesus is the King, therefore Mary is the Queen Mother.

ChicanaRose · Apr 10, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
If you wear a scapular and think that you will escape from the torments of hell by doing so, that is another gospel and false and a great error that many practice today.

on the scapular it says

"Whoever dies clothed in this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire"

that denies the work of Christ on the cross for our sin. No man can be saved by wearing a piece of cloth with words on it. That is another gospel.

We must keep in memory the gospel (1 Cor 15:1-5) to be saved in the end

Yet, as I understand many so called "popes" have worn one.

It does take away from the work of Christ on the cross. I don't think there is anyway around saying so. There are many "promises" offered for praying the rosary, novena, or practicing certain devotions/ meditations, or for wearing a medal or a scapular.

Traditions of men (continued from TAW)

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Christ builds His church from within us

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