If a local law contradicts the Bible, what should we obey?

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

No Username Found said:
Deflecting the question?

I offer no defence of what I didn't say.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Obey local laws! This is advice that will allow you to live in other countries. Other advice in this thread will have you dead or in jail, if your lucky.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. .....Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Even Daniel had a similar position. Until that authority tried to force him to commit idolatry.

Acts 5:41-42
41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. 42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah."

Does "taking up your cross" mean anything to you? Peter promised Jesus he would (Luke 22:33). Unfortunately, he followed your advice for self preservation:
Luke 22:60-61
"60 Peter replied, “Man, I don’t know what you’re talking about!” Just as he was speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: “Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times.”

And what did Peter do?
Luke 22:62
"62 And he went outside and wept bitterly."

Jesus told us to deny ourselves, but you are suggesting that we should deny Jesus if local authorities try to force us. So why are you suggesting that we deny Jesus like Peter did for the sake of self preservation? Why are you telling us that we shouldn't "take up our cross" and "deny ourselves?" Why are you asking us to "lose our lives" by trying to save them?

Luke 9:23-26
23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? 26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."

SkyWriting · Apr 7, 2019

No Username Found said:
Even Daniel had a similar position. Until that authority tried to force him to commit idolatry.

Acts 5:41-42
41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. 42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah."

Does "taking up your cross" mean anything to you? Peter promised Jesus he would (Luke 22:33). Unfortunately, he followed your advice for self preservation:
Luke 22:60-61
"60 Peter replied, “Man, I don’t know what you’re talking about!” Just as he was speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: “Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times.”

And what did Peter do?
Luke 22:62
"62 And he went outside and wept bitterly."

Jesus told us to deny ourselves, but you are suggesting that we should deny Jesus if local authorities try to force us. So why are you suggesting that we deny Jesus like Peter did for the sake of self preservation? Why are you telling us that we shouldn't "take up our cross" and "deny ourselves?" Why are you asking us to "lose our lives" by trying to save them?

Luke 9:23-26
23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? 26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."

Peter lied. It's not the suggested model. But I greatly appreciate the supporting scripture. It's a breakthrough for me I've always hoped people would lean toward.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
I checked your claims. But no mention of government or local authority.

It would be by the authority of the one world government led by the Anti-Christ. Surely you know this. But according to your argument, it really doesn't matter the level of authority as long as it isn't a Church authority. In regards to the mark of the beast, the authority is from the beast described in Revelation 13.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 7, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Peter lied. It's not the suggested model. But I greatly appreciate the supporting scripture. It's a breakthrough for me I've always hoped people would lean toward.

What are you talking about? Just out of curiosity, what is the "suggested model"? How should have Peter responded?

SinoBen · Apr 8, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Jesus stated His opinion that local law was His Fathers will on earth. This surprised me as well. Here Jesus refuses to speak out against local law.

They made her stand before them 4and said, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such a woman. So what do You say?”

You are making a mistake here by conflating "local law" (in general) with the Torah. What you quoted in scripture just proved it.

SkyWriting · Apr 8, 2019

SinoBen said:
You are making a mistake here by conflating "local law" (in general) with the Torah. What you quoted in scripture just proved it.

Thanks for reading it thoroughly. I should have concluded that "Here, Jesus demonstrates that He knows the laws of Moses are obsolete. "

SkyWriting · Apr 8, 2019

No Username Found said:
What are you talking about? Just out of curiosity, what is the "suggested model"? How should have Peter responded?

Peter should have answered honestly. Of what use is the testimony of a liar?

SkyWriting · Apr 8, 2019

No Username Found said:
It would be by the authority of the one world government led by the Anti-Christ. Surely you know this. But according to your argument, it really doesn't matter the level of authority as long as it isn't a Church authority. In regards to the mark of the beast, the authority is from the beast described in Revelation 13.

I pay no attention to most Prophesy. What one-world government are you referring to?

SinoBen · Apr 8, 2019

No Username Found said:
Do you have any scriptural that demonstrates that the word of God should be obeyed over local laws?

I think you can use this as a general principle:

Luke 20:25
He said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

This can be extended to Romans 13.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 8, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Peter should have answered honestly. Of what use is the testimony of a liar?

But that could have gotten him killed. Isnt self preservation one of your reasons for obeying local laws over the word of God?

SkyWriting · Apr 9, 2019

No Username Found said:
But that could have gotten him killed. Isnt self preservation one of your reasons for obeying local laws over the word of God?

That is not a valid reason, since I cite the opposite example:

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

55In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.

56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

Jesus claims, at His trial, that the actions of local government
are the will of His Father in Heaven. That local Government is given
authority over how Christians should live and die. Then He submits
to local government and dies. He seems committed to His statement.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 9, 2019

SkyWriting said:
That is not a valid reason, since I cite the opposite example:.

SkyWriting said:
Obey local laws! This is advice that will allow you to live in other countries. Other advice in this thread will have you dead or in jail, if your lucky.

so if self preservation is not a valid reason for denying Christ, would you care to explain your previous post?

SkyWriting · Apr 9, 2019

No Username Found said:
so if self preservation is not a valid reason for denying Christ, would you care to explain your previous post?

God says to obey local laws. Living is a benefit, but if God
decides it's your time, He decides it's your time.
That what Jesus was saying. Self preservation is not an issue.
Jesus made the statement, then died supporting His statement.

I also made the point that Biblical rules do not apply
in foreign countries. Follow the local rules.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 9, 2019

SkyWriting said:
I also made the point that Biblical rules do not apply
in foreign countries. Follow the local rules.

Can you explain, where exactly does biblical rules apply? Second, is "Jesus is Lord" a statement worth dying for?

SkyWriting · Apr 9, 2019

No Username Found said:
Can you explain, where exactly does biblical rules apply? Second, is "Jesus is Lord" a statement worth dying for?

God's laws are written in each person's heart.
I do not support martyrs. I don't know why anyone does.

thecolorsblend · Apr 9, 2019

SkyWriting said:
I offer no defence of what I didn't say.

But you did say...

SkyWriting said:
Learn about the quote function, lower right corner.

For reasons I can't say I fully understand, that was directed at me.

Btw, I clicked "Reply" to the above comment and I am about to click "Post Reply", if you're interested.

thecolorsblend · Apr 9, 2019

SkyWriting said:
God's laws are written in each person's heart.
I do not support martyrs. I don't know why anyone does.

The martyrs of the first century died for what they claimed to be eyewitnesses to.

For some reason, they found death-by-torture imminently preferable to recanting their stories about having seen Our Lord returned from the dead.

SkyWriting · Apr 10, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
The martyrs of the first century died for what they claimed to be eyewitnesses to.

For some reason, they found death-by-torture imminently preferable to recanting their stories about having seen Our Lord returned from the dead.

I'm familiar with the rumors. Obey local government and accept your fate, becasue local government actions are God's will.

Psalm
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.

28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S
And He rules over the nations.

29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.

SkyWriting · Apr 10, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
But you did say...

For reasons I can't say I fully understand, that was directed at me.

Btw, I clicked "Reply" to the above comment and I am about to click "Post Reply", if you're interested.

Right. If you ask me to defend something "I said" then use the
quote function so I can see what I said to defend it.
Or you can link to the post for the original statement.
But I can't defend your paraphrase of what I said.

If a local law contradicts the Bible, what should we obey?

Does local laws have authority over the word of God?

Yes. God established the authoirty. We must obey regardless of what scripture says.

No. God commands are supreme.We are to obey local laws only if they dont contradict God.

It depends.

I don't know.

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