Saints who Protect

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

Hi Family,

I was searching Amazon for art supplies. I came across a pendant that had a saint who was to protect you.

How exactly does someone believe a saint can protect you?

What are the logistics?

Why cant God be the sole protector?

Do you believe it diminishes the divinity of God?

~Natsumi Lam~

HTacianas · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Hi Family,

I was searching Amazon for art supplies. I came across a pendant that had a saint who was to protect you.

How exactly does someone believe a saint can protect you?

What are the logistics?

Why cant God be the sole protector?

Do you believe it diminishes the divinity of God?

~Natsumi Lam~

Having a patron saint does not diminish the divinity of God. St. Paul is my patron saint and I have never been confused about or between Paul's sainthood and the divinity of God.

As to how -or whether- Saint Paul protects me is as unknown to me as is how or whether God protects me. That's something I will find out later.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

HTacianas said:
Having a patron saint does not diminish the divinity of God. St. Paul is my patron saint and I have never been confused about or between Paul's sainthood and the divinity of God.

As to how -or whether- Saint Paul protects me is as unknown to me as is how or whether God protects me. That's something I will find out later.

What power does a saint have to protect?

HTacianas · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
What power does a saint have to protect?

Luk 19:17 - “And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

HTacianas said:
Luk 19:17 - “And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’

How do you connect the two?

What is your rationale?

thecolorsblend · Apr 9, 2019

Wiki said:
A patron saint, patroness saint, patron hallow or heavenly protector is a saint who in Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism or Eastern Orthodoxy, is regarded as the heavenly advocate of a nation, place, craft, activity, class, clan, family or person.

Patron saint - Wikipedia

I find this to be a logical concept.

In life, we all have a charism. Some people have a talent for music, others are called to the priesthood, some have a special calling to help the poor, etc. We all have a charism.

If we have one in life, why wouldn't we have one in death? It seems reasonable that the charism (and the mission to carry it out) would extend beyond this life.

HTacianas · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
How do you connect the two?

What is your rationale?

How do I connect the two? Jesus clearly rewards his faithful servants with authority. We know that the righteous saints, especially the martyrs, are in the presence of God. Those saints are aware of what is going on here on earth. We know that the saints in the presence of God appeal to God and that God responds to their appeals.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

HTacianas said:
How do I connect the two? Jesus clearly rewards his faithful servants with authority. We know that the righteous saints, especially the martyrs, are in the presence of God. Those saints are aware of what is going on here on earth. We know that the saints in the presence of God appeal to God and that God responds to their appeals.

The bible never mentions those in the afterlife people have power over this world. That is a huge stretch. In fact God prohibits communication, attemps or connectivity of the two.

HTacianas · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
The bible never mentions those in the afterlife people have power over this world. That is a huge stretch. In fact God prohibits communication, attemps or connectivity of the two.

From the bible:

Rev 6:9 - When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Martyrs who are slain for the word of God are in the presence of God, i.e., "under the altar".

Rev 6:10 - And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

They cry out to God, "How long...". They know what is happening on the earth, else they would not know that God has not avenged them "on those who dwell on the earth".

Rev 6:11 - Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer...

God hears their supplications, else He would not reply to them by granting them a white robe and asking that "they should rest a little while longer.".

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

HTacianas said:
From the bible:

Rev 6:9 - When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

Martyrs who are slain for the word of God are in the presence of God, i.e., "under the altar".

Rev 6:10 - And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

They cry out to God, "How long...". They know what is happening on the earth, else they would not know that God has not avenged them "on those who dwell on the earth".

Rev 6:11 - Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer...

God hears their supplications, else He would not reply to them by granting them a white robe and asking that "they should rest a little while longer.".

What does it have to do with saints having divine power to protect us on earth?

Pavel Mosko · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Hi Family,

I was searching Amazon for art supplies. I came across a pendant that had a saint who was to protect you.

How exactly does someone believe a saint can protect you?

~Natsumi Lam~

The only power they have is that they are part of the Church. But that is a power that should not be underestimated. James 5:16"....The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

Hebrews 12:1

“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,”

Revelation 6:9
9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?"

Or in more theological terms they are part of the Divine Counsel.

thecolorsblend · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
The bible never mentions those in the afterlife people have power over this world.

That's not a problem for traditional Christians. We do not believe that a given doctrine must be adduced from Sacred Scripture before it can be believed. In fact, that was the normative view in the Christian world until about 500 years ago.

Natsumi Lam said:
In fact God prohibits communication, attemps or connectivity of the two.

No. No, He does not. What you're doing with this comment is wholesale rewriting Sacred Scripture to suit your man-made traditions.

Necromancy is forbidden. Necromancy is the practice of visiting a medium in order to establish two-way dialogue with the departed. I imagine there are many reasons not to do that but the one that counts the most is that God expressly forbade necromancy.

Petitioning the faithful departed does not require the intervention of a medium. Petitioning the faithful departed is not two-way communication. Petitioning the faithful departed to pray on our behalf is not necromancy.

Petitioning the faithful departed is not forbidden.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

Pavel Mosko said:
The only power they have is that they are part of the Church. But that is a power that should not be underestimated. James 5:16"....The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

Hebrews 12:1
Embed

Revelation 6:9
9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?"

What does it have to do with dead, since they were slain having the divine power to protect people on earth?

HTacianas · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
What does it have to do with saints having divine power to protect us on earth?

As I said before, I do not know.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
That's not a problem for traditional Christians. We do not believe that a given doctrine must be adduced from Sacred Scripture before it can be believed. In fact, that was the normative view in the Christian world until about 500 years ago.

No. No, He does not. What you're doing with this comment is wholesale rewriting Sacred Scripture to suit your man-made traditions.

Necromancy is forbidden. Necromancy is the practice of visiting a medium in order to establish two-way dialogue with the departed. I imagine there are many reasons not to do that but the one that counts the most is that God expressly forbade necromancy.

Petitioning the faithful departed does not require the intervention of a medium. Petitioning the faithful departed is not two-way communication. Petitioning the faithful departed to pray on our behalf is not necromancy.

Petitioning the faithful departed is not forbidden.

Deuteronomy 18:11 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

Pavel Mosko · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
What does it have to do with dead, since they were slain having the divine power to protect people on earth?

They are petitioning God like I mentioned before. I'm just covering that topic, a Catholic can do the rest.

truefiction1 · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Deuteronomy 18:11 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

Those who have passed, who are being asked to pray, aren't dead, because they believe in Christ, and have thus passed from death to Life, just like He promised in His Gospel according to Saint John.

thecolorsblend · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Deuteronomy 18:11 ESV / 27 helpful votes
Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

Petitioning the faithful departed fits none of those criteria.

Try again.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 9, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
Petitioning the faithful departed fits none of those criteria.

Try again.

What is inquires of the dead mean to you?

truefiction1 · Apr 9, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
The bible never mentions those in the afterlife people have power over this world. That is a huge stretch. In fact God prohibits communication, attemps or connectivity of the two.

It's not a huge stretch for the faithful, because when we ask a saint to pray to God for something, God answers.

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