LDS Celestial Marriage...100% false.

BigDaddy4 · Apr 9, 2019

He is the way said:
Grace will be given to those who love Jesus Christ and keep the commandments, who do the will of the Father, who clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, visit and minister to the sick and those in prison, took in the stranger etc. The man who asked Jesus who his neighbor was, was told to go and DO likewise as the good Samaritan did. The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep His commandments.

No, the "whole duty of man" is to LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor.

Peter1000 · Apr 9, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Quoting only Bible verses doesn't explain Mormonism nor defend it. Mormons have to earn salvation and grace must even be earned, thus causing it to be non-grace.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

No Grace:

D&C 130
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

D&C 132
5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world...

32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.
33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.
______________________________________________________

After being saved from the power of Satan, Christians obey God because He made us new creatures and we love Him.

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The doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ can be supported by the bible only. But it is nice to have additional scriptures from the Lord to confirm and to understand the bible more clearly.

Peter1000 · Apr 9, 2019

BigDaddy4 said:
No, the "whole duty of man" is to LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor.

We love God and our neighbor. The manifestation of that love is that we do the will of the Father, we clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, visit and minister to the sick and those in prison, take in the stranger etc.

It is because we love God that we do these things. The grace of God washes away my sins and I will stand blameless before him and will be allowed into his kingdom to live with him forever.

He is the way · Apr 9, 2019

BigDaddy4 said:
No, the "whole duty of man" is to LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor.

That is the two greatest commandments, however the Bible states:
(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

BigDaddy4 · Apr 9, 2019

He is the way said:
I didn't say I couldn't keep the commandments. We can all keep the commandments. I said that the only perfect person was Jesus Christ:
(New Testament | Galatians 5:1)

1 STAND fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

You are not being consistent with your go-to verse about keeping the commandments. According to you, "it's impossible to know God" without following them. So you do not know God, then?

mmksparbud · Apr 9, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Basically, we are not saying this at all. I do not know how you can possibly come to this conclusion with all the information that I personally have given you about the pre-mortal life. I do not know. Tell me on this one issue how you came to this conclusion. I would be very interested to read how you figure that these spirit beings are all there own little Jesus. Please, please, try to explain this falsehood.

Very silly statement. Jesus is the centerpiece of our religion. Jesus was sinless from the beginning, we were not. He was the firstborn of the spirit children. He was the only begotten of the Father in the flesh. We were not begotten by the Father in the flesh. Therefore he is the only spirit child that could be incarnated and save us from our sins. We need Jesus, and his infinite atonement, to get back to the Father.

This is actually a true statement. From the minute that God the Father united our intelligence and spirit it formed an independent entity, and became a god in embryo. This is the entire purpose of God, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. That man has eternal life and lives with God and Jesus means they will be like them and do the same things that they do. That is what godhood is all about. The process is:
1) your intelligence and spirit are united for the first time and you are formed into an independent entity. (we call this entity your spirit)
2) your spirit then has the opportunity to be united with your flesh body in mortality. In mortality, we learn the difference between good and evil and choose who we will follow, Jesus or satan.
3) at death, your spirit leaves the flesh body and the flesh body sleeps in the grave. Your spirit however lives on in a world of spirits until the resurrection.
4) at the resurrection, your spirit and flesh body are reunited and inseparably bonded for eternity and you will be immortal. Now, if you chose Jesus and followed him in mortality, you will also be exalted and will receive eternal life and live with God and Jesus forever. In order to live with them, we will have to be like them and that path to be like them started before the earth was created.
So enjoy the ride, it is fast and furious.

When you say "God" you need to specify which God you are talking about. God the Father, the Father of Jesus, or God the Son, who is Jesus, or God the Holy Spirit.

God the Son needed to go on the same path as you and I. See that path above in order to be like God the Father. There are several scriptures that tell us that Jesus had to do the same things we are doing in order to be like his Father. If he had not done those things, he would not have turned out to be our Savior. If you are interested in having this discussion, let me know, and I will go through it with you.

I can understand your disbelief, and I am used to your unpoliteness, but at least tell the truth about what we believe.

.

This is true, the bible says that God breathed into Adam, and he became a living soul. Adam received the "breath of life". The "breath of life" is metaphoric and interchangeable with the word "spirit".

In James 2:26, it would have been appropriate for James to say: Far as the body without the "breath of life" is dead...., but he uses the word "spirit" instead of the "breath of life.

And in Luke 8:54-55 Jesus could have used "the breath of life", but chose to use the word "spirit".

And in Job 32:8, Job could have used "the breath of life", but chose to use the word "spirit".

It is just as appropriate for us to teach that when it says that God breathed into Adam the "breath of life", Moses just as easily could have said, God put into Adam, "his spirit", and he became a living soul.

I know you are anathema to a living spirit, (which btw means you ignore every scripture that uses the word "spirit", other than the Holy Spirit).
We believe that the spirit was formed by God the Father.
We believe that spirit is put into each individual mortal body
We know what happens to the "spirit" when death occurs.
We know what happens to the "spirit" when we are resurrected.

That is an interesting take on it. Does God not breath the "breath of life" into each individual and they become a living soul? Or how do mortals become living souls? What possess them that allows them to be living souls? Your word "possess" conjures up an evil impression. Thanks.

Your right, ye gads, what in heavens name are you talking about? Please explain.

They are up there with a Holy God, with pure and holy surroundings, untouched by sin. The necessity of coming down here to learns how to resist evil makes no sense at all, but OK--they are down here. Some may be born to very evil parents who train them to be evil themselves and if they live through that then then still haver to learn how to resist evil when all they've ever known is evil. Now---if they do not learn, they get back to heaven anyway and there they will be taught what they couldn't learn------which means, they don't need Jesus--they can just be taught back in heaven and how the blazes anyone can learn how to resist evil (or the necessity of learning that) when there is no evil in heaven. If you can not see the complete foolishness of this then I just don't even know what to say. We are sinless in heaven with our Father but have to come down here to learn to be sinful so God can save us and take us back to Him----right.
How else do you explain your concept of angels using our bodies but "possession?"

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The gift of passing on life was given to Adam and Eve and to every living creature. Life is passed on---there are no souls to be passed on. We are given life not immortal spirits. God alone has immortality. And it really doesn't matter which God--they are one, they are equal to each other and Immortal. They have slightly different functions, as the Son Jesus is our Savior, but, at the same time, God the Father sent Him to us. They are---for want of a better word---triplets, conjoined in mind. Not an easy concept to comprehend and we do not need to -- just know that they are 3 and they are one.

mmksparbud · Apr 9, 2019

He is the way said:
You are messed up and don't understand that God the Father has a perfect resurrected body as does Jesus Christ.

God the Father has a resurrected body??!! You mean that God the Father died at some point? Who resurrected Him? Oh, yes, because Jesus died for us, that means that God the Father died for some planet somewhere and His Father resurrected Him--is that right?
If that is truly what you believe, sorry--you are the one that is truly messed up. God is the one and only God of the entire Universe! That is all 3 of them. And one day you will find out, but it may not do you any good as you have no idea who God is and He will have no idea who you are. I pray you find out before it is too late.

Rescued One · Apr 9, 2019

He is the way said:
Grace will be given to those who love Jesus Christ and keep the commandments, who do the will of the Father, who clothe the naked, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, visit and minister to the sick and those in prison, took in the stranger etc. The man who asked Jesus who his neighbor was, was told to go and DO likewise as the good Samaritan did. The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep His commandments.

Grace is given to any sinner whom God chooses to show mercy.

Romans 5
6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Peter1000 · Apr 9, 2019

mmksparbud said:
From everything you say--God the Father existed as a man before which means He chose that human body to come into and so did His heavenly mother wife---that is 2 possessed spirit children giving birth to spirit children who then posses our human bodies. Can anything get more messed up?

Where did you get the idea that spirit children are possessed, as if by an evil spirit?

"From everything you say", but I have never said anything close to what you are saying here. I have spent at least 2 years of my life explaining the pre-earth life to you, and this is what you have taken from all of what I have said? Possessed spirit children giving birth to spirit children who then posses our human bodies.

Let me say this one more time to you:
1)We believe that the spirit was formed by God the Father. Formed, not created out of nothing. God the Father and our Heavenly Mother took eternal, uncreated intelligence and spirit, and combined them together in an inseparable and independent entity. We call it "the spirit" of man.
2)We believe that spirit is put into each individual mortal body. Now this is where you use the word posses. This is OK, but posses usually associates itself with evil. This is not an evil posession, but the flesh body does become a home for our spirit. When Jesus's spirit was put into his flesh body, we call it "the incarnation". Read what "incarnation" means.

Here is the secret. God is the Father of Jesus's spirit and God is the Father of the spirits of all mortals. But God is also the Father of the flesh body of Jesus. God is not the Father of the flesh bodies of all other mortals. Big difference.
3)We know what happens to the "spirit" when death occurs.
4)We know what happens to the "spirit" when we are resurrected.

In almost all respects, Jesus went through the same process as we have gone through, with the exception that God the Father is the Father of Jesus's mortal flesh body. Being a God, he could be successful in the infinite atonement and save all mankind. Being a man, he could judge men properly because he was one himself and knew the hardships associated with mortal life.

Remember Jesus said he does nothing except what he saw his Father do. Well, Jesus saw God the Father go through this same process too, on a different earth, in a distant past. Because of what he saw, it gave him a road map of what he needed to do, and he was incarnated into his flesh body, and performed his earthly ministry just the same way as he saw his Father do.

He is the way · Apr 9, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Grace is given to any sinner whom God chooses to show mercy.

Romans 5
6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

God has already let us know who will receive mercy:
(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Rescued One · Apr 9, 2019

He is the way said:
God has already let us know who will receive mercy:
(Old Testament | Exodus 20:6)

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

All are sinners. Sinners are also shown mercy.

John 8
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

St. Helens · Apr 9, 2019

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Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
Do not personally attack (insult, belittle, mock, ridicule) other members or groups of members on CF. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
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Rescued One · Apr 9, 2019

[QOTE="Peter1000, post: 73836484, member: 382212"]The doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ can be supported by the bible only. But it is nice to have additional scriptures from the Lord to confirm and to understand the bible more clearly.[/QUOTE]

1 Nephi 20
1 Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism,
who swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness.

Isaiah 48
1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

mmksparbud · Apr 9, 2019

Peter1000 said:
Where did you get the idea that spirit children are possessed, as if by an evil spirit?

"From everything you say", but I have never said anything close to what you are saying here. I have spent at least 2 years of my life explaining the pre-earth life to you, and this is what you have taken from all of what I have said? Possessed spirit children giving birth to spirit children who then posses our human bodies.

Let me say this one more time to you:
1)We believe that the spirit was formed by God the Father. Formed, not created out of nothing. God the Father and our Heavenly Mother took eternal, uncreated intelligence and spirit, and combined them together in an inseparable and independent entity. We call it "the spirit" of man.
2)We believe that spirit is put into each individual mortal body. Now this is where you use the word posses. This is OK, but posses usually associates itself with evil. This is not an evil posession, but the flesh body does become a home for our spirit. When Jesus's spirit was put into his flesh body, we call it "the incarnation". Read what "incarnation" means.

Here is the secret. God is the Father of Jesus's spirit and God is the Father of the spirits of all mortals. But God is also the Father of the flesh body of Jesus. God is not the Father of the flesh bodies of all other mortals. Big difference.
3)We know what happens to the "spirit" when death occurs.
4)We know what happens to the "spirit" when we are resurrected.

In almost all respects, Jesus went through the same process as we have gone through, with the exception that God the Father is the Father of Jesus's mortal flesh body. Being a God, he could be successful in the infinite atonement and save all mankind. Being a man, he could judge men properly because he was one himself and knew the hardships associated with mortal life.

Remember Jesus said he does nothing except what he saw his Father do. Well, Jesus saw God the Father go through this same process too, on a different earth, in a distant past. Because of what he saw, it gave him a road map of what he needed to do, and he was incarnated into his flesh body, and performed his earthly ministry just the same way as he saw his Father do.

What do you call a foreign entity taking over your body? They are up in heaven and come down here to take on human form---that is called possession. It's my body and some "spirit" has it.
Look---Jesus was already God--He is the one that created everything---God the
through the Holy Spirit, made Him a human embryo in the womb of Mary. Are you saying that God the Father has done the same thing for millions of humans??? That is truly blasphemous. It takes the uniqueness of Jesus who gave up everything to become as one of us in order to save us, and makes it ordinary. You are saying God did this for all His spirit children so Jesus is really no big deal--just another spirit child---no matter how you slice this believe of yours---it is not anything that any follower of Christ should even vaguely consider. God the Father was always God, ALWAYS. He was never anything else, never a human. Jesus never saw any such thing as you say. JS was more than deluded.
That is what happens when you throw out the bible and trust in the twisted mind of a man.

Peter1000 · Apr 9, 2019

mmksparbud said:
They are up there with a Holy God, with pure and holy surroundings, untouched by sin. The necessity of coming down here to learns how to resist evil makes no sense at all,

Have you never read about the "war in heaven"? Revelations 12???? We were not untouched with sin in our pre-mortal heaven. lucifer chose to sin instead of give in to Jesus, and he was able to draw 1/3 the spirit children of God away from him. We all had to make a choice. Follow God and Jesus or follow lucifer, who started a war that was eventually lost and he and his followers were cast out of heaven and to this earth.

So the idea that we were untouched by sin is not right. We made a choice and because you and I chose correctly we had the opportunity to have our spirits put into our flesh bodies and experience earth life. Here we have to choose again, only this time outside the sphere of God. This time we have to rely on communication through the Holy Ghost and trusting that Jesus has saved us with his atoning sacrifice.

This time if we choose correctly, we will not have to make that choice again, for we would have kept our first estate in heaven and our second estate here on earth, and we will again live with God and Jesus forever and ever. We will see them as they are, and we will be like them in all aspects.

but OK--they are down here. Some may be born to very evil parents who train them to be evil themselves and if they live through that then then still haver to learn how to resist evil when all they've ever known is evil.

All I can say about this is that God will give all his spirit children the opportunity to learn about him, and choose between right and wrong. Much of that learning will be in the spirit world during the time they enter at death, and the end of the millennium. So a long time to get to know Jesus, even if you were not born in a home that knew about Jesus, you will be given every opportunity to know him before judgement day. Trust God to know how to overcome evil.

Now---if they do not learn, they get back to heaven anyway and there they will be taught what they couldn't learn------which means, they don't need Jesus-

The spirit world is not the same place as heaven. The spirit world is where all spirits go after death to await the resurrection and judgement day. After the resurrection and judgement, then you go to either heaven (3 levels) or hell.

IOW, you do not go straight to heaven at death, but you go to the spirit world to await the resurrection and the judgement and then heaven or hell. Those who did not learn of Jesus in their mortal life, will learn about him in the spirit world.

Jesus is the key to getting into heaven, so all need Jesus, we always need Jesus. Do not think that anyone will by-pass Jesus and his judgement and his mercy and grace. Nobody.

If you can not see the complete foolishness of this then I just don't even know what to say.

Yes, if I thought of it the way you do, it would be complete foolishness, and I would have nothing to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints either. But what you are saying is foolishness, but what you say is not our doctrine. So hear what I say, it is lightyears away from what you say.

He is the way · Apr 9, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
All are sinners. Sinners are also shown mercy.

John 8
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Yes there will be sinners that will be shown mercy. God will choose who they will be, not us:

(New Testament | Romans 9:18)

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

He is the way · Apr 9, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
[QOTE="Peter1000, post: 73836484, member: 382212"]The doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ can be supported by the bible only. But it is nice to have additional scriptures from the Lord to confirm and to understand the bible more clearly.

1 Nephi 20
1 Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism,
who swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness.

Isaiah 48
1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.[/QUOTE]

Looks like the Book of Mormon scripture makes more sense. Thanks for posting it.

Rescued One · Apr 9, 2019

He is the way said:
Yes there will be sinners that will be shown mercy. God will choose who they will be, not us:

(New Testament | Romans 9:18)

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

I never said "us."

Rescued One · Apr 9, 2019

He is the way said:
1 Nephi 20
1 Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism,
who swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness.

Isaiah 48
1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

Looks like the Book of Mormon scripture makes more sense. Thanks for posting it.

Proverbs 30
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Dead Sea Scroll:

Isaiah 48 from Scroll 1Q Isaiaha

1 “Hear this, house of Jacob,

you who are called by the name of Israel,

and have come out of the waters of Judah.

You swear by Yahweh’s name,

and make mention of the God of Israel,

but not in truth, nor in righteousness
Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls - Isaiah 48

Peter1000 · Apr 9, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
[QOTE="Peter1000, post: 73836484, member: 382212"]The doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ can be supported by the bible only. But it is nice to have additional scriptures from the Lord to confirm and to understand the bible more clearly.

1 Nephi 20
1 Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism,
who swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, yet they swear not in truth nor in righteousness.

Isaiah 48
1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Nephi wanted his people to know the words of Isaiah also. So he put certain passages of Isaiah in his writing that eventually became part of the BOM. Any other questions?

LDS Celestial Marriage...100% false.

It's a new season...

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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I stand with Israel

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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