Oh boy, I've never heard of anyone believing the things I now believe about this set of scriptures, and what I think is the correct purpose of this famous set of scriptural text.
Please, if you feel that you really, really know the bible, would you please give me in five paragraphs or less, what you think Paul is trying to say, here? (Any translation I can deal with....)
[Rom 7:13-25 NKJV] 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that [it is] good. 17 But now, [it is] no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will [to do], I do not do; but the evil I will not [to do], that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not [to do], it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
It helps me when there is any difficult to understand passage (for example the deep Romans 2:6-16), to read it also in another translation. Even more I need the full epistle for things Paul says.
But if one has read it recently, then perhaps they could start at the previous chapter (though I decided to read through 5 first just now).
Interesting to this question you ask is the first passage of 6, which begins: "For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you." whoops, that's not from Romans, but....I'll leave it here, because it's helpful. So, 6 begins: "
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"
Already I feel this is going to help, chapter 6 is going to help, with the remarkable, surprising chapter 7.
The chapter 6 ESV passage heading: "Dead to Sin, Alive to God" reminds of chapter 8, the wonderful chapter telling us not to follow the flesh, but to instead walk in the Spirit.
continuing in 6 for me this helps too --
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
...
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
--6
This remind of Christ's metaphorical (and hyperbolic) instruction to do whatever is needed (even for instance to give away your television or computer if that is what it takes) to accomplish avoiding temptation that is too strong for you:
29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell." -- Matthew 6
-- Do what it takes to avoid the temptation you cannot overcome.
But it will aid all of us
very greatly to use the prayer Jesus Christ our Redeemer, our Savior, gave us (told us to pray!) in Matthew 6 exactly for this also!
I feel already here (having read Romans twice in the last few years is helping also) that the key message from Paul in chapter 8 is being set up by chapter 7.
In 7, Paul is telling us ahead of time, before chapter 8, that
we cannot do it by just our own resolve, our own determination, our own will power, alone.
We cannot accomplish following Christ by only our own willpower on our own.
Or, as Christ said: "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak"
!
We need His help.
And also I'm noticing in 7 (Romans again) that Paul is connecting (it seems to me) the 'law' as being like that (representing that): not accomplished by our own accomplishment/willpower, without help. We can't do it on our own. He can change us though!
And notice this fascinating verse in 7 --
5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.
I remember being surprised at this verse more than once. There's something in us that wants to rebel, or test whether the rule (even from God no less!) is really....the way it is (true in a full way; the only way that works out well over time (over months or years)).
In this amazing passage we go all the way back to the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, in the Garden! --
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”
8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.
9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
They ate the fruit, and fell. (and the central sin was to not trust God I think because if we trust Him, then things work in the good way)
Culminating:
21So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
22For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
23but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
24Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Translation -- We need help, from above!
