What commandments is Jesus talking about?

Yeshua HaDerekh

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Your claim is what you posted are really the OT passages by quote. I showed they aren't and talked about context which you refuse to acknowledge.

But you were wrong, the contexts were the same, simple yet you refuse to acknowledge it.
 
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BABerean2

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Those verses to me are about a relationship with God and now an even closer relationship with Him, through Yeshua.

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks.

If He says we are not now come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, I will not refuse to hear what He speaks.


Do you agree with what Dr. Brown said about the Sabbath?

.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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If He says we are not now come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, I will not refuse to hear what He speaks.

.

Not sure I understand what you are saying.
 
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mkgal1

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What I read about Israel and God in the OT doesn't leave a pretty picture of what the concept of love seems to be. If you want to say I view love differently, that's OK, too. I see things much differently in the NT.
Then maybe you should read the OT more. I don't mean plucking out a verse here and there....but follow the story line.

When things first fell apart in the Garden of Eden - how did God respond? Didn't HE - essentially suggest that He was the one that was going to resolve the problem when He said to the serpent:

"And I will put enmity between you & the woman, and between your offspring & hers; He will crush your head, and you will strike His heel" ~ Genesis 3:15

ISTM that you are creating a dilemma for yourself. Is the God of the OT a different God than in the NT? Did He change? Or - could it be that culture has changed and He - in His grace and mercy - is patient and is resolving things with His perfect timing?

King David (and other authors of the Psalms) recognized God's loving kindness and mercy when they wrote these passages:

Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love; according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.
— Psalm 51:1​

But you, Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.
— Psalm 86:15​

As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him.

— Psalm 103:13

The Lord is gracious and righteous; our God is full of compassion.

— Psalm 116:5


The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love. The Lord is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.

— Psalm 145:8-9

And this one - Psalm 119:

"Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord. Blessed are they who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart." v. 1-2
Let your compassion come to me that I may live, for your law is my delight.
— Psalm 119:77


So - did God's truth change from the time of the OT to the new? Or is truth and His nature eternal and unchanging?

What's meant here by "the law of the Lord" and "His statutes"...."law"?

Personally - I think this is something completely different than the Temple rituals. Those rituals & rules partially mimicked rituals of the Pagan culture (and what ancient Israelites kept going back to) but also were shadows of what Christ would carry out fully.

While King David was saying to God (through Nathan) that he desired to build God a suitable house (temple) - God seemed to only be appeasing David....and had other (better) plans.

*******************

2 Samuel 7:4-8 ~
But that night the Lord spoke his word to Nathan, 5 “Go and tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord says: Will you build a house for me to live in? 6 From the time I brought the Israelites out of Egypt until now I have not lived in a house. I have been moving around all this time with a tent as my home. 7 As I have moved with the Israelites, I have never said to the tribes, whom I commanded to take care of my people Israel, “Why haven’t you built me a house of cedar?”’

8 “You must tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord All-Powerful says: I took you from the pasture and from tending the sheep and made you leader of my people Israel. 9 I have been with you everywhere you have gone and have defeated your enemies for you.


Which seems to go back to what was promised here, in Leviticus:


Leviticus 26:11-12 ~ I will live among you, and I will not despise you. 12 I will walk among you; I will be your God, and you will be my people.
And the key verses in 2 Samuel 7:

V 11 - 13 ~ Furthermore, the Lord declares that He will make a house for you—a dynasty of kings! 12 For when you die and are buried with your ancestors, I will raise up one of your descendants, your own offspring, and I will make his kingdom strong. 13 He is the one who will build a house—a temple—for my name. And I will secure his royal throne forever.
 
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mkgal1

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I'm not sure what your point is about Hebrews 12:18 - @BABerean2 ? That version is worded in a confusing way to me. This is the NLT:


Hebrews 12:18
18 You have not come to a physical mountain, to a place of flaming fire, darkness, gloom, and whirlwind, as the Israelites did at Mount Sinai.

Footnotes:
  1. 12:18 Greek to something that can be touched.
 
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BABerean2

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Not sure I understand what you are saying.

The text has nothing to do with what I am saying, or what you or I think.

What does the text say to an unbiased witness?


Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,


Then compare it to Galatians 4:24-31, where the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage", which is the "ministry of death, engraved on stones" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


.
 
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mkgal1

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The text has nothing to do with what I am saying, or what you or I think.

What does the text say to an unbiased witness?


Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,


Then compare it to Galatians 4:24-31, where the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage", which is the "ministry of death, engraved on stones" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


.
That was answered in post #1239.

Why do I get the impression there's this underlying subtext running throughout this thread?

Here's another conflict - Psalm 19 states that His precepts bring joy to the heart, are radiant, and bring joy and light to the eyes.

So what is oppressive - and what brings joy? Maybe if we can make that distinction we can get somewhere?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The text has nothing to do with what I am saying, or what you or I think.

What does the text say to an unbiased witness?


Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,


Then compare it to Galatians 4:24-31, where the Apostle Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage", which is the "ministry of death, engraved on stones" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.


.

You can't (well you guys actually do) pull a quote out of context and then ask what does it mean.
 
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mkgal1

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What commandments is Jesus talking about in -

Jn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The commandments Jesus gave.

Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
/thread.......right? Isn't that all that's necessary in order to arrive at the answer you were searching for, Ace?
 
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BABerean2

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You can't (well you guys actually do) pull a quote out of context and then ask what does it mean.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

.
 
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ace of hearts

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Glad you liked the video! Those verses to me are about a relationship with God and now an even closer relationship with Him, through Yeshua.

See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens. The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire"
So are you warning us through a third party (the Scripture)? If so what are you or the Scripture warning us about in your quote?
 
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ace of hearts

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This was directed towards Yeshua HaDerekh:

.....and I'd like to try to clarify some of these arguments.

From what I'm understanding - the argument is NOT that there is only one covenant....correct? I'd just like to try to clear up some of these presumptions.
What does the Scripture say? Does the Scripture talk about multiple covenants in Hebrews? What covenant(s) does Hebrews talk about?
 
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ace of hearts

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/thread.......right? Isn't that all that's necessary in order to arrive at the answer you were searching for, Ace?
I'm not searching for anything. That's a mistake of the fixer type people. I'm looking for discussion only. You may say I just want to argue. I ask you to read my signature.
 
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ace of hearts

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Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

.
Since I just posted there are more than one covenant, your quote proves my point. I didn't give a list of passages for a reason.
 
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ace of hearts

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But you were wrong, the contexts were the same, simple yet you refuse to acknowledge it.
All pro law people claim any thing similar in both testaments proves there is only one covenant. Those people are trying to get others to abandon the NT as a basis of Christianity. Jesus didn't teach the law as JN 15:10 amply shows.
 
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ace of hearts

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Then maybe you should read the OT more. I don't mean plucking out a verse here and there....but follow the story line.

When things first fell apart in the Garden of Eden - how did God respond? Didn't HE - essentially suggest that He was the one that was going to resolve the problem when He said to the serpent:

"And I will put enmity between you & the woman, and between your offspring & hers; He will crush your head, and you will strike His heel" ~ Genesis 3:15

ISTM that you are creating a dilemma for yourself. Is the God of the OT a different God than in the NT? Did He change? Or - could it be that culture has changed and He - in His grace and mercy - is patient and is resolving things with His perfect timing?

King David (and other authors of the Psalms) recognized God's loving kindness and mercy when they wrote these passages:

Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love; according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.
— Psalm 51:1​

But you, Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.
— Psalm 86:15​

As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him.

— Psalm 103:13

The Lord is gracious and righteous; our God is full of compassion.

— Psalm 116:5


The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love. The Lord is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made.

— Psalm 145:8-9

And this one - Psalm 119:

"Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord. Blessed are they who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart." v. 1-2
Let your compassion come to me that I may live, for your law is my delight.
— Psalm 119:77
So - did God's truth change from the time of the OT to the new? Or is truth and His nature eternal and unchanging?

What's meant here by "the law of the Lord" and "His statutes"...."law"?

Personally - I think this is something completely different than the Temple rituals. Those rituals & rules partially mimicked rituals of the Pagan culture (and what ancient Israelites kept going back to) but also were shadows of what Christ would carry out fully.

While King David was saying to God (through Nathan) that he desired to build God a suitable house (temple) - God seemed to only be appeasing David....and had other (better) plans.

*******************

2 Samuel 7:4-8 ~
But that night the Lord spoke his word to Nathan, 5 “Go and tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord says: Will you build a house for me to live in? 6 From the time I brought the Israelites out of Egypt until now I have not lived in a house. I have been moving around all this time with a tent as my home. 7 As I have moved with the Israelites, I have never said to the tribes, whom I commanded to take care of my people Israel, “Why haven’t you built me a house of cedar?”’

8 “You must tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Lord All-Powerful says: I took you from the pasture and from tending the sheep and made you leader of my people Israel. 9 I have been with you everywhere you have gone and have defeated your enemies for you.


Which seems to go back to what was promised here, in Leviticus:


Leviticus 26:11-12 ~ I will live among you, and I will not despise you. 12 I will walk among you; I will be your God, and you will be my people.
And the key verses in 2 Samuel 7:

V 11 - 13 ~ Furthermore, the Lord declares that He will make a house for you—a dynasty of kings! 12 For when you die and are buried with your ancestors, I will raise up one of your descendants, your own offspring, and I will make his kingdom strong. 13 He is the one who will build a house—a temple—for my name. And I will secure his royal throne forever.
I see no need for me to quote whole chapters. I guess you don't either as your post proves. Now why are you riding me about what I post. You address none of those passages. What are you really up to? Everything you quoted is from the OT. Christianity isn't based on the OT. Christianity is based on a better covenant - Heb 8:6.
 
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ace of hearts

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I'm not sure what your point is about Hebrews 12:18 - @BABerean2 ? That version is worded in a confusing way to me. This is the NLT:


Hebrews 12:18
18 You have not come to a physical mountain, to a place of flaming fire, darkness, gloom, and whirlwind, as the Israelites did at Mount Sinai.

Footnotes:
  1. 12:18 Greek to something that can be touched.
Why aren't you reading more than just a quoted verse to understand a single verse?
 
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ace of hearts

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That was answered in post #1239.

Why do I get the impression there's this underlying subtext running throughout this thread?

Here's another conflict - Psalm 19 states that His precepts bring joy to the heart, are radiant, and bring joy and light to the eyes.

So what is oppressive - and what brings joy? Maybe if we can make that distinction we can get somewhere?
I can't believe you're posting this way being an Anglican.
 
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Dkh587

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You can't (well you guys actually do) pull a quote out of context and then ask what does it mean.

It’s draining dealing with these people who promote their lawless Messiah along with their lawless Apostles.
 
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