How could an angel rebel against God?

Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones, how could he rebel? Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer? God is perfect, so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel? And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him. And these angels are now demons. They are the complete opposite of God's angels. They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them. They are pure evil. Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites? Evil did not exist before this. God for knew that Adam would sin. So why not Lucifer? Was this supposed to happen? Was this a mistake? I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this. It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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The fall was predestined.

The Word of God does not teach any such doctrine as Satan a fallen angel.
There is a whole class of created evil spirits who are the satans, and they have one chief. God created them to be and do exactly what they do.
The Lake of fire was created for the prince of darkness and the evil angels who serve him.
Demons are not fallen angels, but disembodied spirits of the dead offspring of the fallen sons of God/holy watcher angels and the daughters born in the Adam creation .

The Book of Enoch is the foundational book for understanding what place the Satan's have and why, and for how long and why, and it correlates perfectly with Genesis to Revelation and without it, myths such as Satan a fallen angel get invented with absolutely no foundation in the Word.

Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones, how could he rebel? Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer? God is perfect, so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel? And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him. And these angels are now demons. They are the complete opposite of God's angels. They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them. They are pure evil. Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites? Evil did not exist before this. God for knew that Adam would sin. So why not Lucifer? Was this supposed to happen? Was this a mistake? I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this. It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones, how could he rebel? Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer? God is perfect, so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel? And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him. And these angels are now demons. They are the complete opposite of God's angels. They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them. They are pure evil. Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites? Evil did not exist before this. God for knew that Adam would sin. So why not Lucifer? Was this supposed to happen? Was this a mistake? I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this. It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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Roman 8,

God created angels and men with the free will to obey Him or not! God did not create robots.

Pan De Vida

On the Book of Enoch: you are
willfully ignorant. There is no excuse for any serious student of the WORD of God to make up or follow made up myths such as the OP has put forth.
Foundational truths that Moses and the Patriarchs used were laid down by Enoch's
Revelations and therefore the prophets who came after had no need to lay them again.

Romans 8 said:

The book of Enoch and many others books while very interesting, were excluded from the bible because they are not the inspired Word of God, and therefore, cannot be trusted.

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Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels

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Not "if", but "since", for a person to use "if" is doubting what is plainly written, John 1:1-3; Eze. 28:13,15; Psa. 104:4; Heb. 1:7.

Romans 8 said:

, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones,

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Indeed, even the anointed cherub that covers the very throne of God, wiser even than Daniel, see Eze. 28:3,14.

Romans 8 said:

how could he rebel?

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God is love; 1 John 4:8,16.

Love is always free to choose, between God and selfishness.

Romans 8 said:

Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer?

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God cannot make a mistake. He is truth itself; John 14:6 and his work is always perfect, and without iniquity, see Deut. 32:4.

If God were to ever err, He would not be God, and you would not exist. Think on this awhile.

Romans 8 said:

God is perfect

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Indeed.

Romans 8 said:

so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel?

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This is the same question as the first. God is love. Love is always free to choose.

Romans 8 said:

And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him.

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Actually the "a third" (Rev. 12:4) is symbolic, of three parts, not specifically 'one third' in number of the total sum. He actually took a group, "comprising nearly one half" of all the angels (connect also to Rev. 9:16, upon the human and angel). Since there are 3 thirds (3/3), the question becomes how to identify the 3 parts from scripture, but that is for another time, just know that 1/3 is simply a way of identifying a type (which can be more or less of the 3 parts, depending), not a numerical exact number. For instance, real Christians make up 1/3 of all people on earth, while the hypocrites and unrepentant make of the other 2/3's, and yet the vast majority is in the 2/3's, in the billions, while the true Christians are in the vast minority, and yet are still 1/3 (not numerically, but in kind of persons), does that make sense?

Yes, Satan went after the leading angels and convinced many to go with his position, see Jude 1:6.

Romans 8 said:

And these angels are now demons.

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Devils, yes, but this is not in outward appearance, but in the inward heart of the angels. They are simply fallen angels, angels which sinned; 2 Pet. 2:4.

Romans 8 said:

They are the complete opposite of God's angels.

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In character, yes, but that is because they refused the character of God, which is the pure character, see Heb. 1:3.

Romans 8 said:

They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them.

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They have some characteristics, for evil is not unto itself, but must derive itself even from that which is good.

For instance, satan is intelligent. Intelligence comes from God. Satan misuses that intelligence. Though I understand what your point was.

Romans 8 said:

They are pure evil.

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"pure" and "evil" is an oxymoron, by definition. Evil is the turning away from righteousness, yet satan uses a mixture, see Gen. 3.

Romans 8 said:

Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites?

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They turned away from God, and so separated themselves from Him, Isa. 59:2, see also Psa. 2:3; Job 22:17 for examples. God pleaded with them for quite some time (unknown), even as He did to Cain, to Pharoah, to Judas, etc.

Romans 8 said:

Evil did not exist before this.

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Truth. All was love. All was holy. All was pure. All was righteousness.

Romans 8 said:

God for knew that Adam would sin.

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Indeed, for God knows all things, and thus there was the plan of redemption in the mind of God before Adam.

Romans 8 said:

So why not Lucifer?

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God foreknows all things, including the rebellion of Lucifer. God even knowing this in advance, made Lucifer perfect, and placed him in the closest relationship possible for a creature to Creator, as the anointed cherub who covers the throne of God, in the direct presence of God. Lucifer was without excuse, as all are.

Romans 8 said:

Was this supposed to happen?

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"Supposed" is not the right word. Allowed is. God foreknowing, allowed it to take place.

Romans 8 said:

Was this a mistake?

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Again, God does not make mistakes, see Deut. 32:4.

Romans 8 said:

I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this.

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Please reconsider your conclusions in the light of the scripture. Put down your thoughts, and take up God's thoughts therein. It will be light to the darkened mind, or to the mind which needs the light of God's answers.

Romans 8 said:

It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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Trust in God is not arbitrary, nor unevidenced from Him. It is not a blind faith, nor trust.

Consider the text Isa. 1:18.

God's plan is for us to understand these things, and even for the angels to understand the heart of God, see 1 Pet. 1:12.

The Bible, and in specific the NT, certainly talk about Satan and evil spirits. But I don't see anything talking about them as originally good and fallen. That seems to rest on extra-Biblical tradition that I think is dubious, combined with bad exegesis of a few Biblical passages.

There is absolutely no Scripture that teaches that Satan is a fallen, once holy, angel.
The Word of God does tell us Satan's role in God's creation, and what he gets for his service to God.
He is the adversary, the accuser, and he gets to tests sons of Adam and holy watcher angels. he lies, deceives, leads astray, and tortures and torments his victims.
he is sent to punish sinners who do not repent and believe God.
he is the chief of the evil angels who dwell in heaven, for now.

He is prepping and laying up in store his eternal food for when he is bound by the Lake of Fire made for him and his evil angels. In the Lake of Fire, which is the darkness where there is no Light forever, the eternal food for the devil and his evil angels is to torment and to torture their human being victims who fell for their lies and did not repent, and to torment and torture their servants, the demons, who did their evil deeds on earth, and to torture the fallen watcher angels forever.
God sent evil angels (satans) among the Egyptians. Evil angels/spirits/satans dwell in heaven until they are cast down, and appear before YHWH when He calls assemblies in heaven.
That is all found in the Word. Read it.
Several of the satans are named in the Word. Abbadon/Apollyon is the king of Sheol, for this present age, until Death and Sheol are cast into the Lake of Fire.
Corruption is another...and Corruption eats dust -the flesh of every living creature on earth- since the fall of Adam.
In the Book of Jubilees -which is NOT inspired and which contradicts the Book of Enoch, the Torah and the prophets, and the true history Book of Jasher -there are interesting tidbits of history from of old, and in that book the "Prince Mastema" is none other than the "Prince of the Satans".
In the Book of Enoch, the fallen watchers are chained in Sheol for now, but doomed forever to the Lake of Fire, in the final day, and so are their illegal unlawful (disembodied forever) offspring (demons), for becoming subject to the satans (believing their lies and acting upon them).

ewq1938 said:

So you deny Satan is a fallen angel but you believe there are many Satan's who are evil angels with a leader called the prince of darkness...yet you have an issue with Satan being a fallen angel? What's the difference between Satan and the prince of darkness, and what's the difference between evil angel and fallen angel? Sounds like you just disagree with certain things, but support the same things under different descriptions.

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Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones, how could he rebel? Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer? God is perfect, so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel? And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him. And these angels are now demons. They are the complete opposite of God's angels. They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them. They are pure evil. Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites? Evil did not exist before this. God for knew that Adam would sin. So why not Lucifer? Was this supposed to happen? Was this a mistake? I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this. It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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It all happened according to God’s plan. The real question is how could these angels be so stupid having known God and His might and wrath and still decided to rebel. That just seems crazy to me.

Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones, how could he rebel? Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer? God is perfect, so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel? And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him. And these angels are now demons. They are the complete opposite of God's angels. They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them. They are pure evil. Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites? Evil did not exist before this. God for knew that Adam would sin. So why not Lucifer? Was this supposed to happen? Was this a mistake? I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this. It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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I personally think that near death experience accounts may be a major fulfillment of this promise.

Jhn 16:25 "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

(Dr. Richard Eby, near-death .com/):
Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed 'adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony 'sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!"

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Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones, how could he rebel? Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer? God is perfect, so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel? And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him. And these angels are now demons. They are the complete opposite of God's angels. They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them. They are pure evil. Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites? Evil did not exist before this. God for knew that Adam would sin. So why not Lucifer? Was this supposed to happen? Was this a mistake? I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this. It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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"Here's my hypothesis. God created said perfect being (Lucifer) lucifer was too perfect in a sense that as a creation he had too much knowledge, beauty and no flaws and that gave him a sense of pride that said, "It should be me on that throne!" and that's where everything starts to fall apart. The glory of God is taken away from him and now, wanting revenge for that, convinces 1/3 of heaven that they are there own beings and that they don't have to listen to God and that they can rebel and take over the kingdom. Which Ultimately failed.

What does this tell us though? That perfection itself, as a creation, is really imperfection. Having no flaws leaves us open to pride and pride comes before the fall.

Lucifer believed that he was perfect enough to over throw true perfection. "The king of the universe" (GOD). That's why in a sense its good that we have flaws and that we have the knowledge thereof. It humbles us. Humility is above all else, a quality of perfection for creation. The problem with lucifer is that he looked in the mirror too much."
Free will also comes in to play. if God didn't give the angels free will then they would be robot like. That wouldn't be (THEM) wanting to serve and obey and love him. Its not true love if your programed to do it.

That's my take on it.

Romans 8 said:

If God created all the angels, and Lucifer was one of His brightest ones, how could he rebel? Did God make a mistake in creating Lucifer? God is perfect, so how could He make something like the angel Lucifer that would later rebel? And not only Lucifer, but 1/3 of the angels went with him. And these angels are now demons. They are the complete opposite of God's angels. They no longer have any of God's characteristics within them. They are pure evil. Did God withdraw all of His presence from them and they turned into angel opposites? Evil did not exist before this. God for knew that Adam would sin. So why not Lucifer? Was this supposed to happen? Was this a mistake? I have come to the conclusion that we cannot know the answers to this. It's probably part of God's plan for us to think about from this exact perspective and to chalk it up as "just trust in Him".

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Good question. It was not clear which angels were good and which were evil until they fought it out. Once it became clear that Lucifer was not good then Lucifer was not part of God. Whereas since Michael won that means he was closer to God. And henceforth the things he did were considered God's actions. You have to understand that there is no creature that is a perfect image of God. That means the creatures that exist don't fully understand what God means and wants them to do. That is the reason why man was created, to understand God so all the creatures could have someone whose words they could trust. Humans are still not complete. A human would be complete if he can put together all of God's messages that come through angels and fully understand them. Lucifer was not inherently evil. He was created from God and was loved by God. He could not be understood by the other angels and his actions would have led to destruction. That is why he was forced out of the garden of Eden. But Jesus was able to make sense of him. God gave him the morning star (Lucifer) and he could walk on water. No one can walk on water unless he has control over Lucifer. By control I mean he was able to find the angle that he can love Lucifer and Michael and other angels all at once. So they can all be God (a.k.a good ) as long as they submit to Jesus.

Did this explanation make sense to you?