What commandments is Jesus talking about?

BABerean2 said:

The point is that some of us are following the same source of "truth" that they are following. (Babylonian Talmud)

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Can we just stick to the - difficult enough - topic at hand? You needn't worry. Even though I don't know the other posters personally, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be lying to state that no one is going to be swinging chickens around their head any time soon.

mkgal1 said:

Can we just stick to the - difficult enough - topic at hand?

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Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
(Would that mountain be Mount Sinai?)
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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ace of hearts said:

You didn't notice the question in LK 10:25.

Is Lk 6 really teaching the law?

The Sermon on the Mount isan't teaching the law either.

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You asked a question. I answered it. It proved you wrong. Now you don't like the answer. SMH

ace of hearts said:

OK you must do all of it that pertains to you which includes the requirements of sacrifice.

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Again, you really have no idea what you are talking about...you should really read what you write before you post it...

ace of hearts said:

But that's not the topic of the thread. I can't do anything about your rabbit trails and efforts to derail the thread.

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LOL, MY rabbit trails? Derail threads? That is all you two do!

ace of hearts said:

I'm sorry that you don't.

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Seeing things that are not there again...

mkgal1 said:

Love isn't even love if it's under compulsion.

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Exactly! Not because you HAVE to but because you WANT to!

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

LOL, MY rabbit trails? Derail threads? That is all you two do!

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The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15, and continues to the present. During most of the history of the Church the Judaisers have won the day.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Based on the verse below the ten commandments are the Sinai Covenant.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Based on Deuteronomy 5:1-3, the Sinai Covenant was not given at an ealier time.

The term “the moral law” is not found in scripture.

It is a man-made invention, not found in scripture, which is used in an attempt to get around Acts 15:24.

Are there are two different sets of commandments in the words of Christ found below?

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


The New Covenant is a higher standard than the Old Covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.

Matthew 5:17-20 is further explained by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 3:16-29. Here Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. Paul said the law was “added” 430 years “after” the promise made to Abraham “until” the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Later in Matthew chapter 5 Christ contrasts the two covenants below with the words “But I say…”

Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
Mat 5:26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.


Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.


Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.


Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.


Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
Mat 5:41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
Mat 5:42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.


Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Mat 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


The Old Covenant and the New Covenant cannot be one and the same, based on a clear contrast between the two covenants which is found in the New Testament. Confirmation of the contrast between the Old Covenant and New Covenant is found below.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
(Why did Paul compare the ten commandments to a ministry of death?)


Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— (Is Paul comparing the Sinai Covenant to “bondage”, and using “Hagar” as a symbol of the Sinai Covenant?)
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
(Why did Paul compel the Galatian believers to “cast out” the Sinai Covenant of “bondage” in the passage above?)


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.


Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, in as much as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. (Was this written in the present tense during the first century?)
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. (Do most modern Christians ride a horse to their church, or has that mode of transportation now become “obsolete”? Is there now a better way to get there? See the master teacher in 1 John 2:27.)


Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (Is that mountain Mount Sinai?)
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."
Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, (Is this verse speaking of the “church” of Jesus Christ?)
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
(Why does the text above say that we are not come to Mount Sinai, but to Mount Zion? If the New Covenant is merely the Old Covenant “renewed” in the hearts of believers, why is the contrast found above?)


Those who are promoting renewed animal sacrifices after the return of Christ have failed to understand that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order. In cannot be, because we have the return of Christ in Revelation 16:15-16, and also in chapter 19. Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions given to the Apostle John on the Island of Patmos.

The “time of the judgment of the dead” is found in Revelation 11:18, shortly after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. Most people have to skip Revelation 11:18 because they cannot fit it into their man-made doctrine.

In Matthew 25:31-46, there are no living mortals found at the end of the passage.

Paul said Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return in 2 Timothy 4:1.

The bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead is described by Christ in John 5:27-30. Its timing is found in Revelation 11:15-18.

In 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 Christ returns “in flaming fire” taking vengeance on those who do not know God. How would mortals survive the fire?

These passages kill the premill doctrine.

Watch the YouTube videos “The New Covenant” by Bob George, and “New Covenant Theology Made Simple” by David H. J. Gay.

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BABerean2 said:

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15, and continues to the present. During most of the history of the Church the Judaisers have won the day.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Based on the verse below the ten commandments are the Sinai Covenant.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Based on Deuteronomy 5:1-3, the Sinai Covenant was not given at an ealier time.

The term “the moral law” is not found in scripture.

It is a man-made invention, not found in scripture, which is used in an attempt to get around Acts 15:24.

Are there are two different sets of commandments in the words of Christ found below?

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


The New Covenant is a higher standard than the Old Covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.

Matthew 5:17-20 is further explained by the Apostle Paul in Galatians 3:16-29. Here Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. Paul said the law was “added” 430 years “after” the promise made to Abraham “until” the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

Later in Matthew chapter 5 Christ contrasts the two covenants below with the words “But I say…”

Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
Mat 5:26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.


Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.


Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.


Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;
Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.


Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
Mat 5:41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
Mat 5:42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.


Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Mat 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

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There you go again...why are you posting all of this when we have not even discussed it? Are you responding to someone else? BTW, you see that Yeshua makes commandments even stricter! Do you know what a Judaizer is?