How far into Revelation are we now?

ewq1938

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That's the whole point - the real messiah, the one God chose to be their messiah, the one coming in the name of the Lord - they rejected. But will receive another, not chosen by God to be their messiah, King of Israel.

Someone is coming to be a king or ruler but it's of the whole world not Israel. The false prophet is the only one who is described as such a king/ruler and therefore is the only candidate for the one known as the AC.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Someone is coming to be a king or ruler but it's of the whole world not Israel. The false prophet is the only one who is described as such a king/ruler and therefore is the only candidate for the one known as the AC.
......
So you are saying the whole world is coming against Jerusalem?

Matthew 24

Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>......
16 then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains;
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination of the desolation<2050>, the one being declared by Daniel the prophet, standing where it is not binding, (whoever is reading let him be understanding!)
Then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains
Luke 21
20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being surrounded <2944> by armies, then be ye knowing that has neared the desolating<2050> of Her
21 then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains;
and those in midst of Her, let them be coming out to country;
and those in the countries placed, let them not come be entering into Her
22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath<3709> upon this people.

2 Corininthians 6:17
wherefore come-forth<exelqete 1831> out<1537> of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord

Please visit my 1st century Jerusalem Revelation thread

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:4
4 And I hear another Voice out of the heaven saying "come forth<exelqete 1831> out of Her! My people......................

19 And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her,
that to one hour She was desolated<2049>
 
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Bible Highlighter

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It could have been happening Israel and Jerusalem/Judea in the 1st century.

This is from my own studies......

Note the cleansing of the Temple by Jesus using a whip against those selling merchandise in the Temple:.

John 2:

14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting, [Revelation 18:11]
15 and having made a whip of small cords, He put all forth out of the t\Temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the tables he overthrew,
[Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]

Jesus showing the hypocritical Judean rulers a denarius with the image of Caesar:

Matthew 22
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness and said, "why make ye trial of Me, ye hypocrites?
19 Show me the tribute money". And they brought unto Him a denarius.
20 And He saith unto them, "whose is this image<1504> and superscription?"
21They say unto Him, "Caesar's".............

Now look at Revelation concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70ad.

Who uses the denari today?

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measure of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

Merchants, beasts and sheep are also mentioned, just as in John 2:14!
========================================
Revelation 18:11
And the merchants of the land are lamenting and are mourning over Her,
that the cargo of them no-one is buying not-still 13 and cinnamon and incenses and attars and frankincense and wine and oil and flour and grain and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.

John 2:
14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,

..........................

No. This will be a great tribulation that shall never be again.

“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:21).

This means that it will be something no human will ever forget. I mean the holocaust was really bad but a normal reading of a Revelation and the Olivet Discourse makes it sound like a living nightmare that no human would forget about unless God made them forget.
 
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ewq1938

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What verse in Revelation 13?

Rev 13:11-18

Here we find the FP coming in after the beast with ten horns...just like the little horn does after the ten horned beast. The FP speaks as a dragon which is a reference to Satan, he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him which means he is the leader or king of that first beast, he makes fire come down, and does miracles and orders people to make an image of the first beast which is his global empire that represents his own power and authority, then he is able to make that image come alive and speak which further shows how powerful he is, then he forc4s all to take a mark which is the number of a man's name, his own name.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
 
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Douggg

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he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him which means he is the leader or king of that first beast,
No, it doesn't mean he is a king of the first beast, or anyone. If the text says he is a king - then he is a king. Otherwise, no, he is not a king.

The false prophet makes fire come down from heaven mimicking Elijah - the prophet.
 
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ewq1938

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No, it doesn't mean he is a king of the first beast, or anyone. If the text says he is a king - then he is a king. Otherwise, no, he is not a king.
.


That's an argument from silence. Only the ten kings are said to be kings...but we know the AC is certainly a king since he rules over everyone. But since the text does not say the AC is a king then you must conclude he isn't a king and won't be king of Israel either....or admit that a person can be a king without the text saying it outright.
 
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pasifika

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Anit-messiah - the King of Israel. You have been saying to me the Antichrist will never be the King of Israel.

I have given you all the roles the person goes through. The title of the video is even the role of the messiah.

little horn role - leader of the EU - king* of the Roman Empire end times
prince who shall come role - transitional role to becoming the king of Israel
Anti-messiah role - king of Israel
revealed man of sin role - transitional role from being the AC to becoming the beast
beast role - king** of the Roman Empire end times.

*king 7 of the 7 kings of Revelation 17:10
**king 8 the beast of Revelation 17:11
Hello, can I join in and share with your discussion about the AntiChrist. ..
I personally think the identity of the AntiChrist is already reveal in the book of Daniel...I just want to share my take on the identity of this man. First, we look at Daniel 1, Nebuchadnezza king of Babylon who had a dream about the statue and it's appearance. HEAD-made of GOLD, CHEST ARMS -made of Silver, BELLY AND THIGHS- made of Brone, LEGS- made of Iron, FEET-partly Iron and partly Clay...
A body (human body- image in dream) divide in to TWO MAIN parts: (1) Head, (2) Body
Now we can identify what are the appearance or metals in the image represents.
First , Head (Gold)- Daniel 2:38- ...Daniel told the king (Nebuchadnezza) That He is the Head represent in the dream (Babylon)..
We then look at the "Body" of this image- the body divide into 4 divisions of (Silver, bronze,iron, part iron and part clay)...these 4 divisions of metals represented by the the 4 different beast in Daniel 7 (one like a lion, like bear, like a Leopard, frightening and had large iron teeth)...These 4 beast have total of 7 heads and 10horns...According to Daniel 7:23- Beast represent Kingdoms (king)
Rev 13:1-3..beast coming out of the sea has 7 heads and 10 horns, this will give us the clue for the 4 beast in Daniel 7..the clue that we got from Rev13:1-3 is the four Kingdoms in Daniel 7 ALL COMES FROM ONE NATION or source...Just as the ONE BODY of the stature in Nebuchadnezzas dream in Daniel 1...clue number 2 that reveals in Rev 13, that one of its head seems to have fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed...in Daniel 8, gives us this answer, You have the ram and the goat, the goat attack the ram and shattering it's two horns knocked it to the ground and trampled on it...
From this vision of Daniel we can identify whof the wounded animal represents because it gives us the Identity of the Beast with the wounded head...Daniel 8:20 reveal that the ram represent MEDIA and PERSIA...
Daniel 10:20 the Angel told Daniel the will return to fight against the prince of Persia...that is not happen yet.
So my take to the Identity of the AntiChrist is not a Jewish but a man from Persia (IRAN)
 
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Revealing Times

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It is described here in Revelation. Yet, this following text has not happened!

“And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” (Revelation 13:15-18).

The Anti-Christ HAS TO Conquer Israel to BECOME the Beast before the Mark of the Beast can be handed out, he is only the BEAST for 42 Months. It's pretty basic stuff, but people get way out over their skis on these things. People just need to SLOW DOWN and think rationally.

Every BEAST was over The whole or most of the Mediterranean Sea Region and ALWAYS Israel, without Israel there can be nothing to BEAST OVER in juxtaposition to God's plans !!

When Jerusalem is Conquered {see Daniel 12:5-7} we then have 1260 days left until the end of all these wonders {Second Coming}, thus the Beast rules for 42 Months.
 
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Douggg

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Hello, can I join in and share with your discussion about the AntiChrist. ..

Hi pasifika, welcome to this forum.

these 4 divisions of metals represented by the the 4 different beast in Daniel 7 (one like a lion, like bear, like a Leopard, frightening and had large iron teeth)...These 4 beast have total of 7 heads and 10horns...According to Daniel 7:23- Beast represent Kingdoms (king)

The four beasts are said to be four kingdoms, and... four kings (Daniel 7:17).

lion - gold - Babylonian - Nebuchadnezzar
bear - silver - medes/persians - Cyrus
leopard - brass - Greek - Alexander
fearsome beast - iron - Roman - end times arch villain person


Rev 13:1-3..beast coming out of the sea has 7 heads and 10 horns, this will give us the clue for the 4 beast in Daniel 7..the clue that we got from Rev13:1-3 is the four Kingdoms in Daniel 7 ALL COMES FROM ONE NATION or source...Just as the ONE BODY of the stature in Nebuchadnezzas dream in Daniel 1...clue number 2 that reveals in Rev 13, that one of its head seems to have fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed...in Daniel 8, gives us this answer, You have the ram and the goat, the goat attack the ram and shattering it's two horns knocked it to the ground and trampled on it...
From this vision of Daniel we can identify whof the wounded animal represents because it gives us the Identity of the Beast with the wounded head...Daniel 8:20 reveal that the ram represent MEDIA and PERSIA...
Daniel 10:20 the Angel told Daniel the will return to fight against the prince of Persia...that is not happen yet.
So my take to the Identity of the AntiChrist is not a Jewish but a man from Persia (IRAN)
pasifika, Revelation 13:1 is a picture of the beast in Revelation 13, when there are 42 months left in the 7 years.

Revelation 12:3 is a picture of the beast in Revelation 12, when there are 7 years left in the 7 years.

Revelation 17:3 is a picture of the beast in Revelation 17, back at the time of John, first century.

Think of it as if you are looking at the picture of a man's life going from a infant (Revelation 17), to a young man (Revelation 12), to a middle aged man (Revelation 13).

The crowns/no crowns on the heads and horns of the beast in Revelation changes, chapter to chapter.

You must master understanding the meaning to the crowns/no crowns what those mean, in order to understand bible end times prophecy.

Revelation 17:3
7 heads - no crowns
10 horns - no crowns
(the sixth head ruling at the time of John 1st century)

Revelation 12:3
7 heads - crowns
10 horns - no crowns
(the 7 years in Revelation 12)

Revelation 13:1
7 heads - no crowns
1 head wounded mortally but come back to life
10 horns - crowns
(the last 42 months in Revelation 13)

_______________________________________________________________________________

So what you've got in Revelation 13, is the end times in the last 42 months of the 7 years.

What happened back in Daniel 8 with the fall of the medes/persian empire to the greeks is ancient history to us.

As to your analysis on the prince of Persia, go a little further to Daniel 10:20. The resistance that the angel encountered returning from visiting Daniel was with the prince of persia, but after the prince of persia the prince of greece would come.

Those are not referring to human princes, but fallen angels who were active in those kingdoms. The fallen angel called the prince of persia involved with the medes/persians - would be followed by the prince of greece fallen angel as the greek empire would defeat the medes/persian empire.

Anyway, it is historic to use. And is not connected to who the arch villain of the end times is. The mortally wounded head in Revelation 13 does not take place until right before the 42 months begin.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Daniel 7:23-24 and Daniel 9:26 indicates where the arch villain of the end times will emerge from. The end times Roman Empire - which is the EU. A lot of activity going on over there now. The EU is not in its final form of having a ten leader executive branch with one leader over them (the little horn) yet... but that is what to watch for.

______________________________________________________________

The biggest part of Revelation regarding the arch villain of the end times is him in the role of being the beast and not in the role of being the Antichrist.

little horn role, beast role - King of the Roman Empire end times

Antichrist role - King of Israel (for a while)

___________________________________________________________

Here is a chart I made of the arch villain of the end times path on his way to his destruction and the beginning of the great tribulation.

5 minutes, it took me to copy and paste. Pushing 50 years to know what to put on the chart, and why.

Where I show King of the Roman Empire end times - just equate that to being the leader of the EU final form.
298721_40604e5919684ba882068bfa7e72f4ee.png
 
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Revealing Times

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No, the falling away is what apostates do in apostasy.
I did a blog on this way back in 2016, if we speak about the word "Gay" 500 years from now, it will matter at what point we are citing as per to what it means, if 500 years from now they were citing a 1929 reference to gay it is going to mean happy, if they are referencing a 2015 reference is more than likely going to be referencing a homosexual man. CONTEXT REALLY DOES MATTERS. So what does the Falling Away mean ? Lets delve into my blog.

Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away like many still do. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end times, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the true Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith hence apostasy being used here. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the "false teachings" of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away of the faith. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that had been around for nigh 1500 years, 1100 years from the Latin Vulgate to the KJV bible.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Church departs, then the Anti-Christ comes forth, both of these things must happen before the Wrath of God comes, which is what the Thessalonians feared that they were in via a false teaching or false letter they had received.

Just because its always bee presented as apostasy of the faith doesn't mean that is what it is, nowhere in the passage is "FAITH" the central theme, but a "Gathering unto Christ Jesus" is the central theme.
 
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Douggg

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But I do not think the true Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom.
RT, this is what the falling away is....

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

____________________________________________________________

In 2Thessalonians2:3 it is talking about the great falling away in Christianity by them who become convinced that the Judaism forthcoming perceived messiah, the AC, when he is anointed the King of Israel, is the true messiah, and they depart believing in Jesus.

Back in Paul and John's day, it was known among believers that some day Antichrist would come.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 
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Revealing Times

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That's an argument from silence. Only the ten kings are said to be kings...but we know the AC is certainly a king since he rules over everyone. But since the text does not say the AC is a king then you must conclude he isn't a king and won't be king of Israel either....or admit that a person can be a king without the text saying it outright.
Rev. 13 tells us the Crowns are on the 10 Horns, thus the Little Horn/Anti-Christ is King over them, in Rev. 17 we are specifically told they give their power unto the Beast. The False Prophet is only over RELIGION, he takes the place of THE HARLOT. Daniel was never given anything on the False Prophet or his TYPE {Jason} for a reason, the Jews would have been trying to kill all of the future High Priests, just like Herod tried to kill the baby Jesus.

Antiochus killed Onias III the Pious High Priest, his own brother Jason bribed Antiochus to become the High Priest. He then tried to Hellenize the Jews !!

Onias III

Onias III (Hebrew: חוֹנִיּוֹ‎ Ḥōniyyō), son of Simon II, was High Priest during the Second Temple period of Judaism. He is described in scriptures as a pious man who opposed the Hellenization of Judea.[1] He was succeeded by his brother Jason in 175 BCE.

he Seleucid Empire controlled Jerusalem during Onias' tenure and Seleucus IV Philopator was friendly to the Jews and defrayed all expenses connected with their sanctuary. According to 2 Maccabees, a Hellenizing official of the Temple, Simon, a member of the Tribe of Benjamin, induced Seleucus through his official Heliodorus to plunder the Temple. The attempt was unsuccessful and the court never forgave the High Priest. When Antiochus IV Epiphanes became king in 175 BCE, Onias was obliged to yield to his own brother, Jason, a Hellenizer.[2] According to Josephus,[3] Jason became high priest after the death of Onias, the latter's son being then a minor.

Jason (high priest)

Jason (Hebrew: Yason, יאסון) of the Oniad family, brother to Onias III, was a High Priest in the Temple in Jerusalem. Josephus records that his name, before he hellenised it, was originally Jesus (Hebrew יֵשׁוּעַ Yēshua`).[1]

Jason became high priest in 175 BCE after the accession of Antiochus Epiphanes to the throne of the Seleucid Empire.

In an ongoing dispute between the current High Priest, Onias III, and Simon the Benjamite, Jason offered to pay Antiochus in order to be confirmed as the new High Priest in Jerusalem. Antiochus accepted the offer and further allowed Jason to build a gymnasium in Jerusalem and create a Greek-style Polis named after the king, Antioch.[2]

With the creation of Antioch, Jason abandoned the ordinances given under Antiochus III, which defined the polity of the Judeans according to the Torah.

Jason betrayed the Jews and tried to get them to FORSAKE their God !! Its covered in Dan. 11.

Dan. 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

{{{ Antiochus had overcome Egypt before, when he returned Roman Senators stood against hum and forbade him from attacking Egypt, else Rome would come against Greece, so it was NOT LIKE BEFORE........And it will not be like THE LATTER, when the Anti-Christ/Little Horn overcomes Egypt as verses 40-45 clearly show us. }}}

30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him{Three Roman Senators}: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

{{{ So who is this "INTELLIGENCE" that betrayed that forsakes the Holy Covenant ? Well who tried to Hellenize the Jews ? Jason and the Jews in favor of Hellenization, of course. Antiochus was ANGRY because of what the Romans did, it belittled him, thus heb took it out on the Jews who wanted to continue serving the real God !! He teamed up with Jason to try t get them to Worship Zeus and or other Gods, but forbade the worshipping of God Almighty. }}}

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

{{{ This is mostly covered above, they take away the Worshipping of God and profane the Temple of God with the worship of Zeus and the sacrificing of pigs on the Altar. }}}

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

{{{ Jason and the half of the Jews {It was a civil war, half wanted to become like the Greeks, the other half wanted to serve their God} thus the verse above makes perfect sense. }}}

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

I put verse 33 on here TWICE on purpose, I think it not only refers to the Maccabean Revolt, with many dying etc. but it refers to the next 2500 some odd years wherein MANY will be made White [by the blood of Jesus] and many will die for God/Christ, many will be purged from sin and MADE WHITE by the Blood of Jesus, even all the way unto the TIME OF THE END, because it {the time of the end} is yet for an APPOINTED TIME...........Transition.........verse 36 is that APPOINTED TIME OF THE END !! So Dan. 11:36-45 is then shown as the Little Horn Anti-Christs exploits.

Jason was the TYPE of the False Prophet, Antiochus was the TYPE of the Anti-Christ they were PARTNERS IN CRIME..........TYPES..........Of the coming Anti-Christ and False Prophet. Jason was ever over Antiochus, he wa just placed over THE RELIGIOUS ASPECTS of Jerusalem/Israel.

The False Prophet will be Jewish High Priest !!
 
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ewq1938

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I did a blog on this way back in 2016


The blog is wrong. The Apostasy is a departure from Christ, from the true faith. It is not the rapture which has no relation to the Apostasy.
 
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Revealing Times

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RT, this is what the falling away is....
I am not even speaking about Hebrews, I explained to you what 2 Thess. 2 means, IMHO. Posting something about FALLING AWAY from the Faith in Hebrews has no bearing over the fact that 2 Thess. 2 means a Departure of the Church.

In 2Thessalonians2:3 it is talking about the great falling away in Christianity by them who become convinced that the Judaism forthcoming perceived messiah, the AC, when he is anointed the King of Israel, is the true messiah, and they depart believing in Jesus.

Back in Paul and John's day, it was known among believers that some day Antichrist would come.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

You have to be able to study the context brother. One is a DEPARTURE of the Church and the other is a DEPARTURE from the FAITH.

Just because people choose to call the 2 Thess. 2 an Apostasy of the Faith doesn't mean that is what it meant, it clearly means the Departure of the Church has to happen BEFORE the Wrath of God or Day of the Lord can fall upon the world, and the Anti-Christ also has to APPEAR before the DOTL can come upon the world. The whole passage is about the Thessalonians fearing they were in the DOTL or in God's Wrath !! Paul told them, that can not happen until the Church DEPARTS and the Man of Sin comes forth.
 
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Revealing Times

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The blog is wrong. The Apostasy is a departure from Christ, from the true faith. It is not the rapture which has no relation to the Apostasy.
No it is not......when you get to Heaven you will see.....It amuses me that people can't see these things even when shown them. People who refuse to be wrong rarely ever are, but they never learn anything new. I love being wrong, thus I learn, and I continually learn new things because I am willing to say, teach me Lord, most people get ideas and sat around for 20 years thinking how up to date they are. I know.....I did that for 25 years.....I asked God why I was called unto Prophecy and in these last days I am still stuck in the same ole rut, why are you not revealing your end time events unto me Lord?

I got this...Because you already know everything, mens traditions have shaped all your opinions, there is no room for me to teach you anything.

From that point on, I put off all things I learned and sought truth from God, not men. The perfect example is DOUGGGS theory that the Anti-Christ has to be accepted as the King of Israel, when nothing in the bible even claims that. But he has become so entrenched on that position, over time, I think it is a blind spot for him. I had many blind spots, now I don't. I choose to take corrections and to question all things, because God always has a PERFECT FIT for His Holy Word, when we get it right it's like the last 5 pieces of a puzzle, they lay themselves down. I learned you can force something to fit, but in the end the wrong picture will form.

You saying its wrong, doesn't make it wrong. My analysis is spot on. Nowhere in the passage is FAITH spoken of, but a GATHERING UNTO Christ Jesus is.....isn't it brother ?

But if someone is not Pre Trib, they have to discount this straight away, they have too much invested in the Pre Trib not being factual, even though it is.

It is what it is brother. God Bless.
 
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Douggg

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I am not even speaking about Hebrews, I explained to you what 2 Thess. 2 means, IMHO. Posting something about FALLING AWAY from the Faith in HebrewS has no bearing over the fact that 2 Thess. 2 means a Departure of the Church.



You have to be able to study the context brother. One is a DEPARTURE of the Church and the other is a DEPARTURE from the FAITH.

Just because people choose to call the 2 Thess. 2 an Apostasy of the Faith does't mean that is what it meant, it clearly means the Departure of the Church has to happen BEFORE the Wrath of God or Day of the Lord can fall upon the world, and the Anti-Christ also has to APPEAR before the DOTL ca come upon the world. The whole passage is about the Thessalonians fearing they were in the DOTL or in God's Wrath !! Paul told them, that can not happen until the Church DEPARTS and the Man of Sin comes forth.
RT, I know you weren't speaking about Hebrews6:4-6, but that is what the falling away means.

Back in Paul and John's day, it was known among believers that some day Antichrist would come.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

And John associated the coming of the Antichrist with Christians falling away from Christianity in 1John2:19, even in his day. John is clearly talking about Christians departing the faith.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
_____________________________________________________________

You are making a case for a mandatory pre-70th week rapture to happen before the Day of the Lord takes place.

But the Day of the Lord does not take place until sometime in the middle of the 70th week when the person goes into the temple sits and claims to be God.

So why is it mandatory that the rapture take place before the confirming of the covenant for 7 years?

The rapture may happen today, but is not mandatory to take place except to be before the Day of the Lord begins.
__________________________________________________________

For you to make a case of a mandatory pre-70th week rapture - you have to find something in the bible, that the rapture takes place before the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

There are only two places I know of in the bible that refers to the confirming of the covenant for 7 years; 7 years actually being in the text.

(1) Daniel 9:27 (2) Deuteronomy 31:9-13
 
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