If satan is bound in this present age---

parousia70

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It's a wonder Satan can function at all with all those certain Christians in all those certain churches binding him all the time.

I grew up in those churches. Heard it so many times in my life.

Would the actual binding of Satan give even the unrepentant victory over him and his influence on their lives?
 
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wonderkins

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Would the actual binding of Satan give even the unrepentant victory over him and his influence on their lives?
No human has the ability to bind Satan. That's a false sense of power some people think they have.

Even the archangel Michael didn't curse the devil in the book of Jude.

Also, people will sin whether Satan is bound or not.

In my first post I was just poking some fun at people who think they can do this.
 
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parousia70

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No human has the ability to bind Satan. That's a false sense of power some people think they have.
So Jesus was Joking when he said this?:

Matthew 18:18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Or was He just Lying?

Also, people will sin whether Satan is bound or not.

I agree. So, how does the existence of people sinning prove he isn't bound?
(which seems to be the crux of the argument against him being presently bound)
 
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parousia70

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Also not biblical. He will be here over a thousand years before the NHNE according to the bible.

Only if you ignore the following:
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Did you have 2 Peter 3:10 removed from your Bible?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Only if you ignore the following:
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Did you have 2 Peter 3:10 removed from your Bible?
Don't forget Ezekiel 22, Revelation 16:8 and Revelation 18:8 :liturgy:

EZEKIEL 22 "GATHER HOUSE OF ISRAEL INTO JERUSALEM TO MELT IN FURNACE/GEHENNA"

Ezekiel 22:17 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me; they [are] all bronze, tin, iron, and lead, in the midst of a furnace; they have become dross from silver. 19 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Because you have all become dross, therefore behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.

22 'As silver is melted in the midst of a furnace, so shall you be melted in its midst; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have poured out My fury on you.' "
==============================================
Revelation 6:17

"For the Great Day of His Wrath has come, and who is able to stand?
Revelation 16:8
Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and they shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

Revelation 18:
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned,
that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover
Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Finding it impossible to restrain the impetuosity and cruelty of his soldiers, the Commander in chief proceeded, with some of his superior officers, to take a survey of those parts of the edifice which were still uninjured by the conflagration. It had not, at this time, reached the inner Temple, which Titus entered, and viewed with silent admiration. Struck with the magnificence of its architecture, and the beauty of its decorations, which even surpassed the report of fame concerning them ; and perceiving that the sanctuary had not yet caught fire, he redoubled his efforts to stop the progress of the flames.
He condescended even to entreat his soldiers to exert all their strength and activity for this purpose, and appointed a centurion of the guards to punish them if they again disregarded him : but all was in vain. The delirious rage of the soldiery knew no bounds. Eager for plunder and for slaughter, they alike contemned the solicitations and menaces of their General. Even while he was thus intent upon the preservation of the sanctuary, one of the soldiers was actually employed in setting fire to the door- posts, which caused the conflagration to become general.

Titus and his officers were now compelled to retire, and none remained to check the fury of the soldiers or the flames. The Romans, exasperated to the highest pitch against the Jews, seized every person whom they could find, and, without the least regard to sex, .age or quality, first plundered and then slew them. The old and the young, the common people and the priests, those who surrendered and those who resisted, were equally involved in this horrible and indiscriminate carnage. Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire.

The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe. The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints. Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.

The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire. The blood of the sufferers flowed in proportion to the rage of this de structive element ; and the number of the slain exceeded all calculation.

The ground could not be seen for the dead bodies, over which the Romans trampled in pursuit of the fugitives ; while the crackling noise of the devouring flames mingled with the clamor of arms, the groans of the dying and the shrieks of despair, augmented the tremendous horror of a scene, to which the pages of history can furnish no parallel.
 
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wonderkins

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So Jesus was Joking when he said this?:

Matthew 18:18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Or was He just Lying?



I agree. So, how does the existence of people sinning prove he isn't bound?
(which seems to be the crux of the argument against him being presently bound)
Matthew 18:18 is in the context of church discipline. In no way does it speak of binding Satan. If they had the ability to bind him, I imagine it would have been done for real before we ever got the Bible.

And when asking if the devil is bound already...does the Bible say he is currently bound? Not that I can see. But 1 Peter 5:8 says he's prowling around.

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. - 1 Peter 5:8

Could that be true if Satan is currently bound?

What do you suppose it means if thousands of people every week are binding Satan? Does that mean he keeps getting loose? Or he has thousands of bindings put on him every week for the last few hundred years that it looks like a mountain of chains on top him?

It doesn't make sense.
 
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parousia70

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Matthew 18:18 is in the context of church discipline. In no way does it speak of binding Satan. If they had the ability to bind him, I imagine it would have been done for real before we ever got the Bible.

And when asking if the devil is bound already...does the Bible say he is currently bound? Not that I can see. But 1 Peter 5:8 says he's prowling around.

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. - 1 Peter 5:8

Could that be true if Satan is currently bound?

What do you suppose it means if thousands of people every week are binding Satan? Does that mean he keeps getting loose? Or he has thousands of bindings put on him every week for the last few hundred years that it looks like a mountain of chains on top him?

It doesn't make sense.

Well, what power do you say he has now that he wouldn't have if he was bound?
 
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wonderkins

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Well, what power do you say he has now that he wouldn't have if he was bound?
We have no way of answering that. But I would assume that when God binds him, Satan will have zero power.

All we can really say is that at any given time, Satan only has a much power as God allows him. God is in charge, and in the end Satan is just another being created by God.
 
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parousia70

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We have no way of answering that. But I would assume that when God binds him, Satan will have zero power.

"Zero power" meaning even the unrepentant Christ rejectors will enjoy a life of victory over him after God Binds him?
 
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wonderkins

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"Zero power" meaning even the unrepentant Christ rejectors will enjoy a life of victory over him after God Binds him?
No matter the scenario, it will always be wrong to say that unrepentant Christ rejectors will live a life of victory. I assume by victory you mean salvation and eternal life.
 
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parousia70

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No matter the scenario, it will always be wrong to say that unrepentant Christ rejectors will live a life of victory. I assume by victory you mean salvation and eternal life.

If you are saying that during the time Satan is bound, he still would be able to exercise power over those who reject Christ, then I agree.

My issue is with those who say that if Satan were bound, he would have Zero power over anybody.

Seems you are not saying that.

What I do know is that today, Satan has ZERO power over those who are in Christ, and his ONLY power is over those who reject Jesus.

What I also know is that this is EXACTLY the same situation as takes place During the time Satan is "bound".
 
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wonderkins

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If you are saying that during the time Satan is bound, he still would be able to exercise power over those who reject Christ, then I agree.

My issue is with those who say that if Satan were bound, he would have Zero power over anybody.

Seems you are not saying that.

What I do know is that today, Satan has ZERO power over those who are in Christ, and his ONLY power is over those who reject Jesus.

What I also know is that this is EXACTLY the same situation as takes place During the time Satan is "bound".
I am saying that.
 
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parousia70

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No. That Satan will be powerless when God binds him (the only time he will be bound).
So, at that time, the Unrepentant will enjoy at least a share of Christ's victory over Him then? meaning even the unrepentant will be free from his power and influence while he is bound?
That's what I mean by Victory..
Christ alone defeats Satan, and those "in Christ", by default, also enjoy the fruits of His victory over him.. but it seems you are saying that even the unrepentant will get to enjoy the fruits of Christ's victory over Satan as well, once he is bound?

Correct?
 
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wonderkins

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So, at that time, the Unrepentant will enjoy at least a share of Christ's victory over Him then? meaning even the unrepentant will be free from his power and influence while he is bound?
That's what I mean by Victory..
Christ alone defeats Satan, and those "in Christ", by default, also enjoy the fruits of His victory over him.. but it seems you are saying that even the unrepentant will get to enjoy the fruits of Christ's victory over Satan as well, once he is bound?

Correct?
Anything we say is speculation. Revelation 20 speaks of Satan being bound for a thousand year, and then release for a time.

But I say confidently that no human being is binding Satan.
 
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parousia70

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Jesus was fully man, fully God. We are not told we can bind Satan. Like I said before, why does he have to constantly be getting bound?
Satan was bound/judged/cast out by Christ's ministry, reversing satan's dominion over the People of God, granting power over all darkness to the saints, and immediately enabling the gospel to spread to all nations.
(John 12:31 and Matt 12:28-29, Heb 2:14-15 and 1 John 3:8).
 
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