Vaccinating your children

archer75 said:

Are you kidding? You recognize that people were overjoyed when the measles, smallpox, etc., vaccines were invented? And that they were happy about them because they WORK?

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No, I am not kidding. I don't care what people are overjoyed about; most people are large children who allow other larger children to think for them. I keep saying this world is bounded by the logic they have been taught, which is why they are so surprised when the illogical happens, and become easily exploitable when they emote due to the myopia of logic.

If your metric for function is consensus, then we come from two polarities of thought.

Tree of Life said:

I don't think that's what non-vaxers are arguing. "Scientific consensus" has a way of getting imposed on the public. A majority of scientists accept full blown darwinian evolution. A majority of scientists may accept the benefits of vaccination. But then these conclusions are imposed upon the public. Darwinian evolution is the only thing taught in public school biology classes. And now we must accept the dictates of the government when it tells us to vaccinate our children.

But there are scientists in the minority who challenge these conclusions on scientific grounds. Why don't we have the freedom to do our own research and make our own educated decisions?

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You have the freedom, but you better have your own grant money to fund your research - as well as your own publishing company so that your literature can be presented as is. As a result, the minority you speak of either takes their fate, or chooses to remain silent in the sea of consensus.

Oh, and if you aren't an autodidact (which, I believe everyone is to an extent) - if you don't believe you can learn anything, you won't. You will be at the mercy and whim of several ephemeral academic paradigms.

HTacianas said:

I am posting this in the controversial forum to allow for controversial answers to the question.

There is some banter on television right now over the State of New York passing, or contemplating passing, a law banning unvaccinated children from public places. This raises the spectre of childhood vaccinations and a "religious exemption" for parents whose religion prohibits them from vaccinating their children.

This leads me to ask "what on earth religious exemption does a person have for refusing to vaccinate their children"?

Do you have one? Do you claim one? Do you know of one? Is there one?

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Medicine has come so very far with eliminating childhood diseases and I have no full understanding why currently there are those who refuse to have their children vaccinated. We are seeing a resurgence of those childhood diseases returning because of this decision. I always kept my children home and away from the public whenever they were sick, much less whenever they had a contagious condition.

As far as I understand it, there is no religion with any sort of formal belief or doctrine that could reasonably say that they reject vaccines. As far as I know, parents who don't want their children vaccinated use it as a means of trying to opt out of getting a vaccine. I know that in the past, when the first vaccine was invented in England, some ministers opposed them for religious reasons, but they were not the majority. Also, at that time vaccines were new so they were likely cautious of a new medical treatment. We know very well how vaccines work today so parents today have no excuse. I think the anti-vaccine movement arose from a combination of a distrust of "Big Pharma" for other reasons, as well as the fact that the parents who oppose vaccinating their children have not witnessed the diseases they are exposing them to firsthand, because their parents in turn DID vaccinate them and DID have experience with those diseases before the vaccines were developed.

HTacianas said:

This leads me to ask "what on earth religious exemption does a person have for refusing to vaccinate their children"?

Do you have one? Do you claim one? Do you know of one? Is there one?

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I was born in a poor country where vaccine availability is sometimes very limited. Coming from generations who did not get their vaccines seems to have some advantages.

Our immune system in particular seems better capable of fighting diseases it had never encountered before. Immune systems is also more capable of fighting infections without medical intervention. This actually counts for a lot in certain situations.

Albion said:

The issue here, though, concerns non-vaxxers being allowed to decline vaccinations themselves while also not endangering other people as a result.

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That's a facetious OR a well known straw man argument though.

timewerx said:

I was born in a poor country where vaccine availability is sometimes very limited. Coming from generations who did not get their vaccines seems to have some advantages.

Our immune system in particular seems better capable of fighting diseases it had never encountered before. Immune systems is also more capable of fighting infections without medical intervention. This actually counts for a lot in certain situations.

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Breastfeeding can also do this for the baby - increase resistance and immunity even to genetics that undergo minor to moderate perturbations - provided the mother 1) breastfeeds, 2) is relatively healthy, and 3) has not needed to depend on outside immune boosting. If your mother's milk has enough antibodies, you may not need titration of your antibodies (through immune response/vaccine) - as your titers for antibodies would be significantly high enough to forsake the need for vaccine.

Kaon said:

Breastfeeding can also do this for the baby - increase resistance and immunity even to genetics that undergo minor to moderate perturbations - provided the mother 1) breastfeeds, 2) is relatively healthy, and 3) has not needed to depend on outside immune boosting. If your mother's milk has enough antibodies, you may not need titration of your antibodies (through immune response/vaccine) - as your titers for antibodies would be significantly high enough to forsake the need for vaccine.

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That sounds like pseudo-science. Breastfeeding prevents the need for vaccines? Do you have a source for that?

timewerx said:

I was born in a poor country where vaccine availability is sometimes very limited. Coming from generations who did not get their vaccines seems to have some advantages.

Our immune system in particular seems better capable of fighting diseases it had never encountered before. Immune systems is also more capable of fighting infections without medical intervention. This actually counts for a lot in certain situations.

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This is true, as experienced by millions of people,
but
the big money is for something else, so the published information is not in line with the actual experiences of people everywhere. (or maybe anywhere, except by accident).

As Hitler said, tell the people a lie often enough, and they will believe it.

If they would test everything themselves though, and not trust in the flesh at all,
the lies would not get propagated so far and wide so readily.

grandvizier1006 said:

That sounds like pseudo-science. Breastfeeding prevents the need for vaccines? Do you have a source for that?

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The breast, of course.

grandvizier1006 said:

That sounds like pseudo-science. Breastfeeding prevents the need for vaccines? Do you have a source for that?

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Good nutrition is needed, of course also.

There's nothing wrong with pseudo-science if the truth is being sought and proven.

Normal society, regular science and governments lie so often, any source of truth, tested and proven truth, is more to be desired, right ?

Kaon said:

No, I am not kidding. I don't care what people are overjoyed about; most people are large children who allow other larger children to think for them. I keep saying this world is bounded by the logic they have been taught, which is why they are so surprised when the illogical happens, and become easily exploitable when they emote due to the myopia of logic.
If your metric for function is consensus, then we come from two polarities of thought.

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What does God's Word* say about society overall ? (includes science, religion, politics, education, finance and military)

*Galatians, Ephesians and the Apocalypse, et al ....

timewerx said:

I was born in a poor country where vaccine availability is sometimes very limited. Coming from generations who did not get their vaccines seems to have some advantages.

Our immune system in particular seems better capable of fighting diseases it had never encountered before. Immune systems is also more capable of fighting infections without medical intervention. This actually counts for a lot in certain situations.

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Yes, there's many blessings and advantages health-wise and economy-wise having generations that did not
go along with pharmakeia (Revelation 18).
In the near future, potentially, the way the world has been increasing in its power / control/ over the populations, followers of Jesus will be beheaded if they do not go along ..... (as written in the Bible)

grandvizier1006 said:

That sounds like pseudo-science. Breastfeeding prevents the need for vaccines? Do you have a source for that?

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It sounds like pseudo science because you are reading what I did not say. I said exactly what I meant - reread what I said carefully, and without pretense, and then once you determine where I said, "breastfeeding prevents the need for vaccine," I will give you a source for it.

As a general rule, I don't think vaccinations are harmful to children. However, I understand that some people have painful allergic reactions to vaccines (e. g., my mom has a serious allergy to the flu vaccine; there was one family in our homeschool group where the mother had a serious allergy to the chicken pox vaccine, which she had passed on to one of her biological children, etc.), so I totally understand parents who decide not to vaccinate their kids for such reasons.

Jehovah's Witnesses, Hebrew Israelites, Christian Scientists, and (I think) Rastafarians would ask for religious exemptions, though.

Kaon said:

It sounds like pseudo science because you are reading what I did not say. I said exactly what I meant - reread what I said carefully, and without pretense, and then once you determine where I said, "breastfeeding prevents the need for vaccine," I will give you a source for it.

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We were all born into an evil and adulterous generation, from which followers of Jesus are directed to "keep ourselves unstained" (i.e. don't give in ) ....
For ~~ spiritual 'immune system' strength / strong in truth and honesty,
Desire the pure milk of God's Word comes to mind...... (and is crucial for life/ growing)
What does 1 Peter 2:2 mean? - BibleRef.com

https://www.bibleref.com/1-Peter/2/1-Peter-2-2.html
... and that we will receive salvation fully when Christ is revealed (1 Peter 1:5). For now, taking in the "milk" of God's Word is the intended path of spiritual growth.
WORD OF GOD AS MILK ← Logos Daily

128.199.203.19/logosdaily.net/word-of-god-as-milk/
It is similar with a newly-born believer in Jesus Christ. They desire the spiritual milk of God's Word. Nobody will force them to read their Bibles, but they can't get along without reading them. Like new-born babies, they drink the milk of God's Word with great desire.
Longing for the Pure Milk of the Word | Grace Evangelical Society

https://faithalone.org/grace-in-focus-articles/longing-for-the-pure-milk-of-the-word/
Mar 1, 2018 - ... week by week, month by month, year by year, decade by decade, as we come to church desiring and receiving the pure milk of God's Word.
Sermon 05-21-17: “Craving the Pure Milk of God's Word” | Rev. Brent L ...

https://revbrentwhite.com/.../sermon-05-21-17-craving-the-pure-milk-of-gods-word/
Sermon 05-21-17: “Craving the Pure Milk of God's Word”. June 20, 2017. In today's scripture, the apostle Peter quotes from Isaiah 40: “All flesh is like grass and ...
1 Peter 2:2 Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that ...

https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/1PE.2.2
... so that by it you may grow up in your salvation In the same way that nursing infants cry for milk, you must intensely crave the pure spiritual milk of God's Word.

R. Genevieve said:

As a general rule, I don't think vaccinations are harmful to children. However, I understand that some people have painful allergic reactions to vaccines

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Doctors have reported that everyone even healthy adults have a reaction to any of the vaccinations.
Some reactions are very minor almost un-noticable seizure, while some are lifetime disabilities and immediate or subsequent death (like in sids).

The evidence is quite readily available (simple searches) for the moment,

but won't make much difference in what the law-makers do unwittingly or wittingly.

Medical clinics that opened their libraries to their incoming civilian members/ future clients - patients/ have much better reviews and success than those that don't.

The most famous one was the one in chicago that had zero incidences of autism amongst their 30,000 some members .... all who had chosen to avoid the immunizations after reading thru the medical library.

OP

I encourage you to avoid the complete hysteria about vaccines. It is a sad thing that the Internet has become a place of gossip, conspiracy theories, and folk tails. I am not criticizing you specifically - i dont know what you believe.

The vast majority of vaccines are perfectly safe. You are not having live germs injected into your body. They have been killed. They are dead. There are possible issues of allergies e.g. egg allergies which might have been used to culture the germs while they were alive. Allergies are just allergies .. no different than if you eat eggs on toast. When you go to receive an injection, the nurse will inform you of any problems.

There *are* a few vaccines that do involve live organisms. These vaccines are called live vaccines. You will be fully informed before you use one. You always have the right to reject one, if you wish. I dont think that the common childhood vaccines involve live organisms, but you can check and ask.

I am not shooting my mouth off. I was a Christian missionary in Aftica. I have had countless vaccines, you should see my Yellow Vaccination Card. I have been injected for everything. No sweat. I never had a problem. If vaccines were harmful, I would be dead.

I dont have a problem if States or community groups make vaccinations mandatory. They are following the best advice of the CDC in Atlanta, Georgia. And those are the best doctors and scientists in the world.

IMO, a Christian parent would be very irresponsible to avoid vaccinating their children. Does any parent have more knowledge than the best doctors? And if your children do get sick - or worse give rhe sickness to other kids - then you have direct personal responsibility. If you dont have money to pay .. OK the State can help you with costs. But if you choose a high-risk option for your kids and you do not vaccinate them ... you should be held responsible.

I thank God for all the doctors and scientists who developed these vaccines!!

Blessings!

"Doctors have reported that everyone even healthy adults have a reaction to any of the vaccinations."

Wrong.
I have had every shot you can imagine.
I have been vaccinated against diseases that you probably never even heard of.

I am 100% healthy.
And I never had a serious reaction from any vaccination.

Some people do have problems, but not many. The side effects are usually temporary.

Here is my question to you. Would you rather feel a little tired after a vaccination. Or would you prefer to die a difficult death in a hospital bed ... from meningitis?? It is your choice. I will choose to be strong and healthy any day!!

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Doctors have reported that everyone even healthy adults have a reaction to any of the vaccinations.

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Do you have any credible sources for this?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Some reactions are very minor almost un-noticable seizure, while some are lifetime disabilities and immediate or subsequent death (like in sids).

The evidence is quite readily available (simple searches) for the moment,

but won't make much difference in what the law-makers do unwittingly or wittingly.

Medical clinics that opened their libraries to their incoming civilian members/ future clients - patients/ have much better reviews and success than those that don't.

The most famous one was the one in chicago that had zero incidences of autism amongst their 30,000 some members .... all who had chosen to avoid the immunizations after reading thru the medical library.

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I agree that physicians should better educate parents on possible allergic reactions to vaccines, as well as about seroconversion and how immunization works. It is something that needs to be talked about more, so doctors can help parents make an informed decision about what is best for their child.

However, the link between vaccines and autism has been quite thoroughly debunked. The following links in the parentheses are from the CDC and the Mayo Clinic respectively (x, x). To make a long story short, the only study that "proved" any such thing could not be duplicated, even after twenty-five separate studies by other scientists. Following this, the man who "discovered" the link lost his medical license due to research fraud.

Autism is strictly a genetic disorder, and even if it were caused by vaccines, I'd rather risk raising a child who has autism than risk watching the same child die slowly and/or in pain from a preventable illness.