Seeking God With No Luck

NBB said:

Well, look at the bible, they lived 'experiences' left and right, experiences are good, and increase our faith, Paul learned the gospel trhough 'experiences', Moses was given the law etc trhough 'experiences', etc etc.

If were not for experiences Abraham would have not left his hometown.

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Ok. That's a fair statement, NBB, and I won't try to refute it. But for the sake of @Elle12 (the gal who started this thread and is in need of our support), I'll just redirect the focal point of our attention on this matter with a question: Being that the Bible is replete with reports of "experiences with God" of various sorts, what kind of experience(s) SHOULD we be expecting today? I have to ask because I'm not sure about what the answer would be to this question.

2PhiloVoid said:

Ok. That's a fair statement, NBB, and I won't try to refute it. But for the sake of @Elle12 (the gal who started this thread and is in need of our support), I'll just redirect the focal point of our attention on this matter with a question: Being that the Bible is replete with reports of "experiences with God" of various sorts, what kind of experience(s) SHOULD we be expecting today? I have to ask because I'm not sure about what the answer would be to this question.

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You can feel the holy spirit, the holy spirit can give you some comfort of some kind, or reveal something, or fill you,
you can feel the presence of God, all this as a christian, God has a presence, so when he is near you, i don't know how this is,
but when he is near you, you can feel it, you can actually enter the holy place, i'm not talking about some mind state or something but actually in this earth entering the holy place, which is a spiritual experience, you are not taken away from your body or something, the bible talks about this, 'we are free to enter the holy place' or something like that,
you can feel the glory of God here on this earth, you can receive the water of life Jesus, this is something spiritual that goes inside your soul or spirit, and the bible says, 'it jumps to eternal life' whatever that means, but means it is very good.
And experience 'celestial gifts', when i converted i was riding my motorcycle and felt something so amazing and strong from God that i sadly rejected it a bit because i couln't drive!, i should have stopped the motorcycle so this could keep going,

This is some things among other things available to christians, there is a lot more, i don't care to brag or anything like it, but i actually talk of things i experienced myself, for this i'm hooked up with God no matter what, i'm 100 percent sure he is up there and i don't need any more proof, and no one is going to tell me God is not true or make me doubt. And i need to get better, because actually i'm not doing so well, with the help of God because i know there is a lot of things a christian can get from God, and i want them.

Now if someone don't experience this things, well, nobody is less because of that, but it is a shame if a christian at least didn't have an encounter with Jesus, or did not felt the presence of God or the holy spirit at least once.

Makes me think of that minister in the united states i think it was i don't remember his name, but preached for a lot of years, when he was older, he actually started believing he had no reason to believe in God, and abandoned the faith, he preached to a lot of people but i'm sure he never had an encounter with Jesus, or felt the Holy spirit, when you do you are not going to doubt God anymore.

But a better experience is when you see that God is with you, and he is changing you over time, and he didn't abandon you and making thing new in your life leading you to a better place.

NBB said:

You can feel the holy spirit, the holy spirit can give you some comfort of some kind, or reveal something, or fill you,
you can feel the presence of God, all this as a christian, God has a presence, so when he is near you, i don't know how this is,
but when he is near you, you can feel it, you can actually enter the holy place, i'm not talking about some mind state or something but actually in this earth entering the holy place, which is a spiritual experience, you are not taken away from your body or something, the bible talks about this, 'we are free to enter the holy place' or something like that,
you can feel the glory of God here on this earth, you can receive the water of life Jesus, this is something spiritual that goes inside your soul or spirit, and the bible says, 'it jumps to eternal life' whatever that means, but means it is very good.
And experience 'celestial gifts', when i converted i was riding my motorcycle and felt something so amazing and strong from God that i sadly rejected it a bit because i couln't drive!, i should have stopped the motorcycle so this could keep going,

This is some things among other things available to christians, there is a lot more, i don't care to brag or anything like it, but i actually talk of things i experienced myself, for this i'm hooked up with God no matter what, i'm 100 percent sure he is up there and i don't need any more proof, and no one is going to tell me God is not true or make me doubt. And i need to get better, because actually i'm not doing so well, with the help of God because i know there is a lot of things a christian can get from God, and i want them.

Now if someone don't experience this things, well, nobody is less because of that, but it is a shame if a christian at least didn't have an encounter with Jesus, or did not felt the presence of God or the holy spirit at least once.

Makes me think of that minister in the united states i think it was i don't remember his name, but preached for a lot of years, when he was older, he actually started believing he had no reason to believe in God, and abandoned the faith, he preached to a lot of people but i'm sure he never had an encounter with Jesus, or felt the Holy spirit, when you do you are not going to doubt God anymore.

But a better experience is when you see that God is with you, and he is changing you over time, and he didn't abandon you and making thing new in your life leading you to a better place.

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I appreciate your testimony. I too have "experienced" on occasion feelings of confidence and peace that I felt were provided by God. The thing is, these experiences come and go and aren't something that will mean too much to others who haven't experienced these kinds of Spirit led feelings.

However, I'm also thinking that a lot of people are wanting an experience more akin to the kind had by people in the Bible, because let's face it, many of the people mentioned in the Scriptures experienced more than just ethereal feelings from the Lord. The Prophets, Mary and the Apostles got more than just some strong feelings of reassurance---a number of them either saw the Lord Himself, or some BIG miracle He did, or they were directly visited by an angel like Gabriel.

Anyway, again, thank you for sharing your testimony. I wish all of us could experience at least some of these feelings that you and I have felt. Peace.

2PhiloVoid said:

I appreciate your testimony. I too have "experienced" on occasion feelings of confidence and peace that I felt were provided by God. The thing is, these experiences come and go and aren't something that will mean too much to others who experience these kinds of Spirit led feelings.

However, I'm also thinking that a lot of people are wanting an experience more akin to the kind had by people in the Bible, because let's face it, many of the people mentioned in the Scriptures experienced more than just ethereal feelings from the Lord. The Prophets, Mary and the Apostles got more than just some strong feelings of reassurance---a number of them either saw the Lord Himself, or some BIG miracle He did, or they were directly visited by an angel like Gabriel.

Anyway, again, thank you for sharing your testimony. I wish all of us could experience at least some of these feelings that you and I have felt. Peace.

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Ok, but hey the holy spirit filling you, or feeling Gods love is no small thing at all.

Hi Elle,

People come to a belief in God in different ways, and sometimes in spite of themselves. Some have an intellectual journey, others have felt convicted and drawn at a evangelistic service, others have come to the end of themselves through life-controlling addictions and cried out to God. It can be very different for each person. Reading about others conversions can sometimes be problematic if we are expecting to experience something similar. People have found God (or God has found them) in different ways. For CS Lewis, it involved both his intellect and his imagination. Yet he wasn't exactly seeking God (in fact he was in many ways still trying to evade God), but he did begin to put the philosophy he held to at the time into practice and to obey his conscience.

Proofs of God are mainly to demonstrate that belief in God is not irrational. I don't know which proofs your minister has gone over with you? I am unsure about the value of some proofs (if they are philosophic proofs), as it seems to me they don't really touch the heart. Though there is value in looking at the evidences of the resurrection of Jesus.

Truth in a biblical sense is quite unlike how it is often understand today. In a biblical sense Truth (Hebrew - emeth, Greek - aletheia) has several connotations, but basically it means genuineness, veracity, faithfulness and steadfastness. That's not to deny there is a also an element of correspondence to reality, or right description of external reality. But most often it has the sense of standing firm, remaining faithful to the end. "The Word of the Lord holds true, and all His work endures" Psalms 33:4 In John's Gospel truth is inseparable from grace. Truth in the Bible is also related to concrete life and obedience. The Bible emphasises hearing over seeing. "We make contact with truth when we hear the message of truth that is enacted in history." (Romans 10:14-17)

I don't know if any of that is helpful to you?

What are some of the questions you have about belief in God and Christianity?

Elle12 said:

The minister that I meet regularly with now isn't one for proofs. His goal is to love me as he loves others, and to show everyone the love of God. He's very good at it; I can see the impact that God has had on his life, and the good work that he does in his role. But that doesn't show me anything more than God as a cultural or social construct.

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I am not sure I am understanding you at this point? I'd say the idea of God being socially constructed is flawed, that is if you mean by socially constructed the idea that God is merely a projection of one's wishes or longings. I am not sure if that's what you mean, but in any case against that view it can be argued that although things do not exist because we wish for them, it does not follow from this that because we desire something, it does not exist.

Elle12 said:

I've been seeking long enough that there aren't too many questions I haven't asked. When given the opportunity, I ask people why they believe, and for their testimony if they're willing to share. The ever-present question isn't something that anyone else can really answer, but it's, "How can I believe?" How can I bring myself to believe in something that I don't? And what can I do to make myself believe? If God does exist, why is this so difficult for me?

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Have you ever thought of reading / praying through the Westminister Confession? There is a helpful study version of it by GI Williamson if you are interested. I don't want to load you down with other reading material unless you want suggestions.

WESTOZZIE said:

Hi sister, tell me where it says in the word that you will feel God's presence if you truly believe?

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I believe we have to practice His presence.

"Professor Ernest Becker, who taught at the University of California at Berkeley and San Francisco State College, said that for the last half-million years people have always believed in two worlds – one that was visible and one that was invisible. The visible world was where they lived their everyday lives; the invisible world was more powerful, for the meaning and existence of the visible world was dependent on it. Suddenly in the last century and a half, as the ideas of the Enlightenment have spread to the whole of Western culture, we have been told quite arbitrarily that there is no invisible world. This has become dogma for many secular people today."

FRANCIS SCHAEFFER ANALYZES ART AND CULTURE Part 28 Woody Allen and “The Mannishness of Man” (Feature on artist Ryan Gander)

WESTOZZIE said:

Hi sister, tell me where it says in the word that you will feel God's presence if you truly believe?

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When a Christian is filled with the Holy Spirit - having received the baptism in the Holy Spirit - there is an undeniable presence of God - such as n the Upper Room when tongues of flames rested upon the disciples and they became commissioned o go out to all the world. I would be happy to provide other scripture references if that would be helpful.

Thanks, feelings are not the proof of being filled with the Spirit. If we make feelings the proof in our minds, then we set ourselves up for a roller-coaster ride instead of a steady walk of faith.
In truth, 'out of your belly will flow rivers of living water' is happening whether we feel it is or not. Jesus is in the heart of the believer whether we feel He is or not. Preachers and worship leaders have made a big deal out of feelings for decades saying things in meetings that are not taught , but "caught" by the people as "truth". WE hear testimonies from believers and preachers etc, saying I felt His presence....I went here and I felt the presence....He preached this amazing message and the "presence was strong"...
I am NOT saying one does not feel God's presence. But was steering the dear sister away from looking for feelings as any kind of proof that God is with/in her. It sets one up for a weak walk of "faith", for our faith is not in God's word, but in our feelings.
As far as receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit I have known believers who are filled with the Spirit but who do not and have never spoken in tongues. God does not force anyone to speak in tongues....so therefore many don't because they have been taught against it. But all this is not in line with the sisters first posting here, sorry...bless you sister Lady O

Hi Elle,
Sorry for this late reply; I just saw it today.
I struggled with "believing in Jesus" for many miserable years. Below is the story of my journey yo Christ. Hope it will encourage you to not give up on God.


I was raised in an Independent Baptist church where every Sunday I heard sermons about sin, heaven & hell, Jesus’ death on the cross, & salvation by believing in Jesus. I heard that I was a sinner, that because of my sin I would spend eternity in hell if I didn’t repent & accept Christ as my savior. I heard that Jesus died on the cross to pay for my sins and He would save anyone who accepted Him as their savior. At age 13 I went to the altar at church to be saved and I was led through the scriptures known as the Romans Road; I said a prayer asking Jesus to save me and was baptized shortly thereafter.
Afterwards I did not read the bible; I just went to church. Later, as a young adult, I began to have doubts about my salvation which eventually led to a life of uncertainty, fear, & misery. I doubted my salvation because I did not understand how God would save someone just for saying a prayer “in Jesus' name” and being baptized. I was confused about all the teaching I had heard growing up in a church. I was confused about God & the bible. I did not understand the meaning of “believing” in Jesus. I did not know what to believe or how to believe. One bible verse that I had trouble understanding was Romans 10:13. I would call on the name of the Lord many times, but could not find any assurance that He heard me. My confusion led me to question if any of it was true or if God even existed. My life was miserable.

I was looking for evidence that would prove to me that the bible is true, that God exists, and that Jesus does really forgive sinners, but there was something missing, a missing link, and I did not know what it was. I needed something to convince me that it was all true. I talked to several Christians & asked a lot of questions, read several books about how to have assurance of salvation, and read several bible salvation tracts. I could not find any answers that convinced me of the truth about any of the teachings I had heard growing up in church. I did the things I heard at church that I thought were necessary to get God to save me like making a public confession of my sin, repenting of my sin, publicly confessing Jesus as my Lord & Savior, promising to follow Him the rest of my life, I tried to make myself have some sense of faith, I said the sinners' prayer over & over begging God to save me, and each time I would find relief from the doubts. But, then our pastor would say in a sermon that to be saved we must really mean business with God, and I would question myself as to whether I really did repent of all my sins, or did I really commit my life to Christ, or did I really believe in Jesus to save me, and the doubts would return. I could not find a lasting assurance of salvation, and I had no peace. I could not concentrate on my job or my family. I was obsessed with a dreadful fear of dying without ever knowing for sure if I had done the right things to get God to save me.

One night, out of a sense of helplessness & desperation, I said a prayer to the God I wasn't sure existed. My prayer was, “God will you show me the truth about believing in Jesus?” Next, I did something I had never done outside of church; I found our family bible, sat down at my kitchen table, and opened the bible to the Book of John, the Gospel of John. I opened the bible to the Gospel of John because I had heard someone say that the Book of John was the best place to find out about Jesus. I did not know what I would find there but I was ready to accept whatever it was if it convinced me that it was real & the truth. As I started to read the Gospel of John I had no idea that my life was about to change forever and that I would soon have a peace that is impossible to explain to anyone who has never experienced that peace for themselves.

Yes, I was desperate to know Jesus as my Savior. I thought I would never know, for sure, that I had found Him or that I had enough faith in Him, or that I had really believed in Him. I was confused about what it all meant, and just wasn't sure about any of it being real. But, the moment I began to read John 1:1 for some reason I was seeing the words of the bible in a different way. I remembered reading the Book of John in Sunday School as a kid where our teacher told us to memorize the first chapter, but it really meant nothing to me back then. But, that night, as I sat at my kitchen table reading that big family bible, the words came to life and something was telling me that I was reading the truth about Jesus. I realized that the missing link I referred earlier was the Holy Spirit showing me the truth that I so desperately needed.

The Holy Spirit opened my blind spiritual eyes so that I could see & understand spiritual truth. That night I found the evidence, the the proof, that completely convinced me that the bible is the Truth, that God is real, and that Jesus does really forgive anyone who earnestly comes to Him for forgiveness. God Himself showed me that He is real.

God saw that I was seeking Him in the way described in the following scripture. Jeremiah 29:13, “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.” (KJV)

The Holy Spirit used the following scriptures and several other scriptures to convince me that Jesus is who He said He is, and that He was waiting for me to come to Him.

John 5:39-40, Jesus said to the Pharisees “Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.(KJV)

John 6:37,”All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”(KJV)

John 6:44, “ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”(KJV)

John 6:45, “ It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”(KJV)

Romans 10:14, “How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?”(KJV)

Revelations 3:20, “Behold I stand at t he door and knock, and if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him and he with me.”(KJV)

That night, as I read the Gospel of John, the Holy Spirit opened my spiritually blind eyes for me and “I got it.” He showed me who Jesus is and what He did for me when He died on the cross to pay for my sins. The Holy Spirit completely convinced me that the Bible is the absolute truth, that God is real, and that Jesus is God who became a man so He could pay the penalty for my sins that I could never pay myself. God showed me how to “believe in Him” as He convinced me that all the things I had heard in church as a kid, and all that I was reading that night were His way of not only saving me from spending eternity in hell, but also is His way to change me now by giving me a new nature. Immediately I forgot about all the things I was doing to get God to save me as my complete trust & confidence literally fell upon Jesus. I wasn't thinking about how much faith I needed to call out to Him. I knew without a doubt that Jesus was waiting for me to come to Him, and I did. The moment the Holy Spirit convinced me & I “got it” was the moment I believed in Jesus. I saw that Romans 10:13 alone was just words without faith, but that together Romans 10:13-14 means that I believe in Jesus before I call on Him. I found myself talking to Jesus as though He was right there in the room with me. I was thanking Him for saving me and asking Him to change me His way, and that He did. That was 40 years ago and today I still have that same peace and assurance that He gave me then.

I will use another scripture here although at that time I knew nothing about it but it helps to explain what actually happened to me that day: Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” “Not of works, lest any man should boast.” God gave me the right kind of faith to believe just like this verse says, it is a gift of God. The faith God gave me was focused on Jesus’ death on the cross, and also believing that Jesus will do what He said He will do in John 6:37, and that’s “saving faith.” The “wrong kind of faith” was focused on myself, on what “I was doing” to try to get God to save me.

I did not find my answer from men. Only when I turned to God through reading His Word and by the convincing power of the Holy Spirit did I find the truth about “believing” in Jesus. IOW the Holy Spirit changed my mind & convinced me; He made it real to me; He removed all doubts from my mind, and He changed me from a doubting unbeliever into a born-again believer who has a total assurance of salvation and a lasting peace.

John

Elle12 said:

Hello all, new to the forum and apologies if this belongs elsewhere - please move or delete it, if so. I've been earnestly seeking God for the last four years, and don't know where to turn at this point. I was not raised in the church, but have attended multiple churches since college and I'm striving to find something that points to God. I know that I'm a skeptical person at heart, and I want to believe, but I don't know how. I can't find anything to believe in the "proof" that people try to show me. Worship is most of the music I listen to, I read and listen to the Bible every day, I have tried to research the scientific evidence for God, the archaeological evidence for Jesus, the theological evidence of the Bible, I have tried weekly Bible studies and other groups, I attend church regularly, but I feel nothing. I have never felt God's presence in my life. I have never found a reason to believe. I have come far from where I started, but it feels like I've been stuck in the same place for the last eighteen months or so. I've met with three ministers and still meet with a minister friend of mine every week, and though I love him, he admits freely that he has no answers for me in my lack of belief. I've been told by some that I need to stop trying so hard, and let it come to me, but I don't fully understand that. Stop reading the Bible? Stop attending church? I don't understand how that is supposed to help. I've been told that this is God testing me, or preparing me, or that this will make me value my faith when it does come, but I don't understand that, either, especially when I feel so close to just throwing the towel in and calling it a day. I'm trying so hard not to give up and to keep striving, keep searching, keep reading, but it's so hard. I've been going to church for five years but I still can't call myself a Christian. I attend church events and outreach, but I'm still "other" because I don't believe. People tell me that I should just call myself Christian and get baptized, but I can't honestly say that I believe in God and that Jesus died for my sins. I'm in this limbo that I can't overcome on my own, and I can't see a reason why a God that wants me to believe in Him won't give me the ability to believe. When I talk to non-Christians, they ask why I'm stilll looking. If there was a God, wouldn't He have shown Himself to me? And I can't answer them, I don't know why I'm still looking. Logic dictates I should probably give up. And when I open up to Christians that I know about this, they get afraid because I've done everything right in their eyes, I've taken all the steps, and they've never seen it "take this long". The fact that I still haven't been graced with the gift of faith rocks their own faith, and they're not comfortable talking about it when they hit that point. Even other agnostics/atheists turned Christians can't seem to relate to me. Most of their testimonies are to sudden realizations, or life experiences, or just a gradually sense of it "feeling right," but I haven't met anyone who sought as long as I have been seeking. I want to find God, so badly, but I can't.

I'm sorry for the long post, and I apologize ahead of time. I don't know what I'm trying to gain by posting - I think I already know that there's nothing anyone can say to give me faith. I suppose I'm looking for hope, or encouragement, or someone to tell me that they've been here.

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Do you understand your need for Christ?

I have no doubt God exists. What you mean by that varies. After looking into philosophy for a while and at various people who have claimed to have taken Psychedelics(Highly Dangerous), soul destroying I have not taken them. I came to the conclusion that Panentheism (a Transcendent and Immanent reality)is correct, as supported by Issac Newton, Christopher Langan, C.S Lewis and JR Tolkein.

Also because I believe Panentheism is real, I believe divine intervention is also real.
I believe Jesus Christ exists. I'm not a Christian.

Elle12 said:

Hello all, new to the forum and apologies if this belongs elsewhere - please move or delete it, if so. I've been earnestly seeking God for the last four years, and don't know where to turn at this point. I was not raised in the church, but have attended multiple churches since college and I'm striving to find something that points to God. I know that I'm a skeptical person at heart, and I want to believe, but I don't know how. I can't find anything to believe in the "proof" that people try to show me. Worship is most of the music I listen to, I read and listen to the Bible every day, I have tried to research the scientific evidence for God, the archaeological evidence for Jesus, the theological evidence of the Bible, I have tried weekly Bible studies and other groups, I attend church regularly, but I feel nothing. I have never felt God's presence in my life. I have never found a reason to believe. I have come far from where I started, but it feels like I've been stuck in the same place for the last eighteen months or so. I've met with three ministers and still meet with a minister friend of mine every week, and though I love him, he admits freely that he has no answers for me in my lack of belief. I've been told by some that I need to stop trying so hard, and let it come to me, but I don't fully understand that. Stop reading the Bible? Stop attending church? I don't understand how that is supposed to help. I've been told that this is God testing me, or preparing me, or that this will make me value my faith when it does come, but I don't understand that, either, especially when I feel so close to just throwing the towel in and calling it a day. I'm trying so hard not to give up and to keep striving, keep searching, keep reading, but it's so hard. I've been going to church for five years but I still can't call myself a Christian. I attend church events and outreach, but I'm still "other" because I don't believe. People tell me that I should just call myself Christian and get baptized, but I can't honestly say that I believe in God and that Jesus died for my sins. I'm in this limbo that I can't overcome on my own, and I can't see a reason why a God that wants me to believe in Him won't give me the ability to believe. When I talk to non-Christians, they ask why I'm stilll looking. If there was a God, wouldn't He have shown Himself to me? And I can't answer them, I don't know why I'm still looking. Logic dictates I should probably give up. And when I open up to Christians that I know about this, they get afraid because I've done everything right in their eyes, I've taken all the steps, and they've never seen it "take this long". The fact that I still haven't been graced with the gift of faith rocks their own faith, and they're not comfortable talking about it when they hit that point. Even other agnostics/atheists turned Christians can't seem to relate to me. Most of their testimonies are to sudden realizations, or life experiences, or just a gradually sense of it "feeling right," but I haven't met anyone who sought as long as I have been seeking. I want to find God, so badly, but I can't.

I'm sorry for the long post, and I apologize ahead of time. I don't know what I'm trying to gain by posting - I think I already know that there's nothing anyone can say to give me faith. I suppose I'm looking for hope, or encouragement, or someone to tell me that they've been here.

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So the major issue you have described is that you supposedly have never felt God's presence or any real kind of assurance of salvation for several years, despite you apparently having earnestly pursued such. Is that right? You also have claimed that you have "never found a reason to believe."

Such claims are strange to say the least.

It is true that initial salvation is not conditioned upon feelings; However, Scripture does make it cleat that true salvation (regeneration) will eventually be confirmed by "feelings," or as some have described, by a direct witness by the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:16; I John 2:20, 27;1 John 3:19-22; 1 John 5:10).

God is not just an intellectual idea for the genuinely saved, but rather, a personable being who is experienced (4:13).

Christ stands ready to personally manifest Himself to the genuine seeker:

Rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

There is no such thing as a prosperous relationship between persons with no confirming feelings ever being experienced. This is not only the norm for people in their relationships between one another, but I believe this is also true for a relationship between the person(s) of God and those saved in Christ Jesus. I find it improbable, to say the least, for a genuinely saved person to operate in the Love and salvation of God without ever directly "feeling" and experiencing such.

@Elle12

"What a grand thing, to be loved! What a grander thing still, to love!" - Victor Hugo.

God is Love? Or Love is God? Was reading an article by C.S Lewis, which brought up that point, I found the metaphysical implications interesting.

Maybe you could try and find a person who believed they were saved(literally) by Jesus Christ. The only experience I know of, is when my father told me about how my grandfather, felt he was saved by Jesus Christ after surviving being shot down and set on fire(Said strangely felt no pain, Adrenaline?) in an airplane(Beaufighter) fully laden with HE Ammunition. Initially when I heard the story in not so much detail, my father just said about a watch he was given that shattered in the sign of the cross. My initial reply was something like, probably delusional. To which my father, his son agreed. Anyway, he kept a diary on toilet paper that was written down. While he was a POW. The love felt(and perhaps given) from genuine Christians. I haven't experienced anything like it.