Was 'Christ died for our sins' preached to the unsaved?

janxharris · Nov 2, 2014

Hammster said:
Read through Peter's sermon in Acts 2. No mention of Jesus dying for sin. Yet 3000 were saved. How is that possible?

The specificity you are looking for:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7843406-35/#post66552939

Read through the entire bible; no mention of Christ dying for less than all yet you say he did. How is that possible?

janxharris · Nov 2, 2014

A New Dawn said:
Actually, it hasn't been dealt with, because it is the logical end of your theological viewpoint. IF Christ paid the price for ALL, as you suggest, then people are going to hell unjustly. Paying the price is paying the price. If Christ paid the price, why are the unbelievers then having to pay the price, again?

You can't have it both ways. IF Christ paid the price for all, then all will be saved. So that makes you a universalist.

Your definition must be wrong as Jesus would have paid for all the elect's unbelief; no further action would be required.

janxharris · Nov 2, 2014

A New Dawn said:
It isn't a fact. It is your personal eisegesis.

It doesn't prove anything. When you take the whole textual analysis of the Bible, it can only support that Paul was preaching to the as-of-yet unbelieving elect.

People preach for those who have ears to hear. When I talk to a room full of people, I am talking to those who are listening. If someone isn't listening, I am not talking to them. Just like when I am sitting at the dinner table and say to my kids "Make sure you clean your room before going to bed", and my one daughter says "My room is already clean", and I respond "Then I wasn't talking to you".

No, the gospel must be preached to all:

Mark 16:
15 He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Hammster · Nov 2, 2014

OzSpen said:
I 'delivered up' my lawn mower clippings around the trees in my back yard. What does 'delivered up' (ekdoton) mean in Acts 2:23?

You have a point to make. Please make it.

Hammster · Nov 2, 2014

janxharris said:
The specificity you are looking for:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7843406-35/#post66552939

Read through the entire bible; no mention of Christ dying for less than all yet you say he did. How is that possible?

And you are still not addressing my question. What did the Jews believe in when they were saved after Peter's sermon? It wasn't that Christ died for their sins. So what was it?

Hammster · Nov 2, 2014

janxharris said:
Your definition must be wrong as Jesus would have paid for all the elect's unbelief; no further action would be required.

Belief. We are justified by faith. Don't continue (and I say continue because it's been explained over and over) to confuse justification with other aspects of salvation.

OzSpen · Nov 2, 2014

Hammster said:
You have a point to make. Please make it.

I've made the point but you are not listening.

I'd recommend that you take a read of James 1:19-20 and practise it in your responses to me.

Hammster · Nov 2, 2014

OzSpen said:
I've made the point but you are not listening.

I'd recommend that you take a read of James 1:19-20 and practise it in your responses to me.

I apparently didn't get your point. I just thought you asked a question. Could you explain it please? Thanks.

FreeinChrist · Nov 8, 2014

MOD HAT

This thread has undergone a clean up of off topic posts that focused on the other member rather than the topic.

Please stay on topic and refrain from complaining about the other members.

Joan Newbold · Apr 6, 2019

T'here's no evidence in any of the recorded messages from any of the apostles that they ever said the Christ died for everyone's sins while they evangelized. If it carried the importance in the way the OP say it does, it would be all through their messages. It would at least be mentioned once, you'd think.'

Yes, there is evidence!
1 John 2:2 tells us that He died for the sins of the whole world:
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Colossians 1:20 tells us that He made peace through His blood - to reconcile ALL things unto Himself:
"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."
Paul in Romans 5:18 says that the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life:
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
All men can be saved if they believe, because "by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

Hammster · Apr 6, 2019

Joan Newbold said:
T'here's no evidence in any of the recorded messages from any of the apostles that they ever said the Christ died for everyone's sins while they evangelized. If it carried the importance in the way the OP say it does, it would be all through their messages. It would at least be mentioned once, you'd think.'

Yes, there is evidence!
1 John 2:2 tells us that He died for the sins of the whole world:
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Colossians 1:20 tells us that He made peace through His blood - to reconcile ALL things unto Himself:
"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."
Paul in Romans 5:18 says that the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life:
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
All men can be saved if they believe, because "by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."

You missed what was said. In all the evangelical messages recorded in scripture, they never said Christ died for all.

OzSpen · Apr 6, 2019

Hammster said:
You missed what was said. In all the evangelical messages recorded in scripture, they never said Christ died for all.

Hammster,

In 'all the evangelical messages recorded in Scripture' do you miss this one or do you regard it as NOT an 'evangelical message'?

The Apostle John stated in 1 John 2:2 (ESV), 'He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world'.

In the words of Zane Hodges, there is nothing in 1 John 2:2 about Jesus Christ being the potential satisfaction for the sins of the world. He put it this way:

The apostle flatly states that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. He is that. Not that He can be, or potentially is, but He simply is. Note too that this statement is exactly parallel to the truth that He is the propitiation for our sins. In whatever sense He is the propitiation for our sins, he is also the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Very simply put, the propitiatory work of our Lord Jesus Christ is universally effective. That is true whether anyone believes it or not. On the cross, my friends, Jesus paid for every single sin that has ever been committed, by any person who has ever lived on the face of the earth. If you ask me, that is magnificent and overwhelming. (YouTube, "Propitiation: Does It Only Count If We Accept It?")

This message also is taught in:

1 Tim 2:5-6

John 1:29

Oz

OzSpen · Apr 6, 2019

Hammster said:
You missed what was said. In all the evangelical messages recorded in scripture, they never said Christ died for all.

Hammster,

If what I posted at #372 is not adequate for you, surely this message should be:

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you [pagans at Corinth] which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures (1 Cor 15:1-4 ESV, emphasis added)

When Paul preached to the non-Christians at Corinth, his message of salvation included 'Christ died for our sins'.

He did not preach: 'Christ died only for the sins of those who believe'.

Oz

Hammster · Apr 6, 2019

OzSpen said:
In 'all the evangelical messages recorded in Scripture' do you miss this one or do you regard it as NOT an 'evangelical message'?

It’s an epistle.

Hammster · Apr 6, 2019

OzSpen said:
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you [pagans at Corinth]

You’ve added to scripture.

OzSpen · Apr 7, 2019

Hammster said:
It’s an epistle.

In that epistle Paul gave the content of his Gospel message proclaimed to the Corinthians.

Since when did a writing of an epistle preclude content of the Gospel?

OzSpen · Apr 7, 2019

Hammster said:
You’ve added to scripture.

What a joke. :clap:

I have not added to Scripture! I did what any preacher does who is a sound expositor of Scripture. I defined who the 'you' were - pagan Corinthians to whom Paul preached the Gospel.

Your Calvinism has tried to defend limited atonement by this kind of irrelevant comment.

Hammster · Apr 7, 2019

OzSpen said:
In that epistle Paul gave the content of his Gospel message proclaimed to the Corinthians.

Since when did a writing of an epistle preclude content of the Gospel?

My question was specific. Intentionally so.

Hammster · Apr 7, 2019

OzSpen said:
What a joke. I have not added to Scripture! I did what any preacher does who is a sound expositor of Scripture. I defined who the 'you' were - pagan Corinthians to whom Paul preached the Gospel.

Your Calvinism has tried to defend limited atonement by this kind of irrelevant comment.

Why do you think they were pagan at the time? Nothing indicates it. It just says that he preached the gospel to them. Any decent preacher does this every week. I’m planning on hearing the gospel preached today.

There’s no reason to assume that they were pagan.

OzSpen · Apr 7, 2019

Hammster said:
My question was specific. Intentionally so.

Which question?

Was 'Christ died for our sins' preached to the unsaved?

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