What commandments is Jesus talking about?

Ttalkkugjil said:

The Law isn't required for salvation but good works should flow out of Christians.

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OK, what are those good works?

Shimshon said:

Sadly this is the second most ignorant thing I've heard you say yet. The first being that love is never commanded and your refusal to acknowledge the first two commandments.

Genesis 3:15 says Christ will defeat Satan, thus sin and 'death'. Over a third of the Scriptures are made up of prophecies many relating to Jesus who redeems from the dead, and all of Scripture points to him. He is the fulfillment of the OT.

Why do you like to throw out so much of who he is? Who or what has hurt you so bad in relation to the law given Israel by God that you cannot help but deny that which God has called holy or redeemed? Who used the Scriptures against you so as to cause animosity between the law of God and yourself?

BTW, I'm not a law based Messianic Jew. I'm a Grace based and Messiah centric Jewish believer. And part of my ministry is to those who place themselves under the law. And, I'd like to come along side you here but your zeal often appears as blind animosity. And some of your statements as above are so myopic. I see you fight against the pricks. Or fighting the windmills. And to be clear, I am saying all of this with a prayerful heart, not a vengeful one. I pray for your continued revelation of who Messiah is, in his fulness. My heart is for you, not against you.

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Dear Shimshon,
I think you need to explore what love is. I believe love is offered from a free will. One can command respect. Commanded respect show through just like earned respect. Yes there's a great difference. I don't want obligated love or respect. One can love for a reason, but God doesn't. God loves by choice/decision. You can also say that is ignorant if you like.

I've never refused to acknowledge any commandments. Those that are applicable to me I try to adhere to. What you don't seem to understand is there is a change of covenants by God, Himself. The covenant given to Israel has no jurisdiction over the believer. Read the NT.

What specifically in Gen 3:15 provides for eternal life? Not a single thing that I can see. Perhaps you can explain it. I do understand it prophecies the coming Savior, Jesus and that's all.. Now explain why one needs to know about Gen 3:15 to secure eternal life (be redeemed/saved).

I've no idea why you think I throw out much of who Jesus is. I believe all the Bible.

The law has nothing to do with salvation except lead us to Jesus.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

For Christians the law is the unemployed schoolmaster in this passage.

Those who live by the law for salvation don't have and can't get salvation - Gal 5; Rom 6:23; JN 5 and 10.

I know who you claim to be and are. I like you a lot. I understand you have a very rich heritage. I'm doing what Paul did.

What I don't need to do is live or try to live like a Jew obligated to the covenant given to Israel at Sinai.

mkgal1 said:

The Old Testament pointed to the Messiah.

Just about every time Jesus spoke (what's recorded for us) a quote directly from the Old Testament - The Law, The Torah, the Pentateuch - was included (so, in my opinion, it's critically important to study the Old Testament or else one won't comprehend the second Testament).

Here is one OT prophecy that I know of that foretells of His resurrection, which proclaims eternal life (from King David):

Psalm 16:5-11 ~
5 The LORD is my chosen portion and my cup;​

You have made my lot secure.

6 The lines of my boundary have fallen in pleasant places;

surely my inheritance is delightful.

7 I will bless the LORD who counsels me;

even at night my conscience instructs me.b

8 I have setc the LORD always before me.

Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.

9 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;

my body also will dwell securely.

10 For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol,

nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

11 You have made known to me the path of life;

You will fill me with joy in Your presence

with eternal pleasures at Your right hand.
****************************************
ETA: Also see Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53

Jesus said (recorded in John 5:39):

"These are the very Scriptures that testify about me"​

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Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I really don't think I need to say more.

mkgal1 said:

....and I merely defined it in *context*. To answer only what "fulfill" means without context would be like me asking you to define "set" (IOW.....it's not enough for a basic definition as there are many applications).

But I'll play along. The original Greek word in Galatians is: anapléroó

From Strongs:


Original Word: ἀναπληρόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anapléroó
Phonetic Spelling: (an-ap-lay-ro'-o)
Definition: to fill up
Usage: I fill up, make up, complete the measure of, fulfill, carry out the commands (provisions, etc.) of.

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Very good. I agree even though you provided no discussion of your own.

Now what is the law Jesus came to fulfill (complete)? If Jesus did this, why would we need to do the same? If one needs to fulfill the law, why did Jesus do it for us? You might be going Huh? Don't you believe in substitutionary atonement? Don't you understand and believe Romans and Galatians? Next to the Gospel of John these are my favorite parts of the NT.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

I can only respond to what you write...
How does the whole NT testify against me?

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Not a single thing in the NT promotes the law. If you think some passage does, at least reference it and we can talk about it.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeshua taught Torah and kept it. So the JEWISH apostles failed??? Gamaliel taught Paul...

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JN 1:17, 15:10

mkgal1 said:

This is from Acts 13. Paul referred back to the OT and the promises made there (which includes the foretelling of the resurrection of Jesus). Also...go back to v 14 & 16 to see who Paul's audience was:

Acts 13:32-37 ~
“And now we are here to bring you this Good News. The promise was made to our ancestors, 33 and God has now fulfilled it for us, their descendants, by raising Jesus. This is what the second psalm says about Jesus:

‘You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.’

34 For God had promised to raise him from the dead, not leaving him to rot in the grave. He said, ‘I will give you the sacred blessings I promised to David.’ 35 Another psalm explains it more fully: ‘You will not allow your Holy One to rot in the grave.’ 36 This is not a reference to David, for after David had done the will of God in his own generation, he died and was buried with his ancestors, and his body decayed. 37 No, it was a reference to someone else—someone whom God raised and whose body did not decay.​

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Acts of the Apostles is part of the NT.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeshua is The Messiah, Gamaliel and Hillel were not...but they all taught Torah and their teaching were very similar...THAT was my point. You keep wanting it to be a peeing match.

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You follow them and I'll follow Jesus. I'm not interested in your match. I love the truth and you want me to abandon it. No way because I've got a much better deal with Jesus than you do with the law. Heb 8:6

mkgal1 said:

I honestly had never paid any attention to this name until reading it today. I did some reading on the Greek Orthodox site - and Gamaliel was recognized as a saint (it looks like both the Roman Catholics and Orthodox traditions recognize that).

I'm confused why others in this thread are refusing to notice that the early church was made up of Jews?

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We recognize and accept that.

mkgal1 said:

Read more than just the first sentence. My post continued to say:

Paul referred back to the OT and the promises made there (which includes the foretelling of the resurrection of Jesus). Also...go back to v 14 & 16 to see who Paul's audience was:

Acts 13:32-37 ~
“And now we are here to bring you this Good News. The promise was made to our ancestors, 33 and God has now fulfilled it for us, their descendants, by raising Jesus. This is what the second psalm says about Jesus:

‘You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.’

34 For God had promised to raise him from the dead, not leaving him to rot in the grave. He said, ‘I will give you the sacred blessings I promised to David.’ 35 Another psalm explains it more fully: ‘You will not allow your Holy One to rot in the grave.’ 36 This is not a reference to David, for after David had done the will of God in his own generation, he died and was buried with his ancestors, and his body decayed. 37 No, it was a reference to someone else—someone whom God raised and whose body did not decay​

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I read your whole post. I responded to what I wanted to draw your attention to. You quoted only only from Acts 13.

mkgal1 said:

Not in any posts I've read in this thread. Instead - when Paul and Gamaliel were mentioned - you contrasted their teaching with Jesus' and claimed they "failed" and Jesus "won". They weren't in opposition.

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I don't contrast Paul and Jesus. Neither Jesus nor Paul teach Gamaliel that I know about. If you want to follow Gamaliel, be my guest. Don't expect me to. The subject of the thread is Jesus and His commandments.