What is the woman's role in the family and church?

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bekkilyn

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"Emotional abuse". Of coouurse! So God is abusive now?

Your false representation of a hateful power-hungry god of retribution, fear, and control is extremely abusive, yes.
 
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Romans 8

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We all make sacrifices for good things in life.

We do this for ourselves:
If we want to buy a nice house, we don't go on a vacation for a while so we can save money.

and

We do this for the LORD:
Some Christians may give up going on a vacation for a while so that he can contribute to the building expansion of his church.

So what is wrong with giving up a little bit of control over my life (like 0.01 percent) so I can have a good marriage?

All good things in life come with trade-offs.

Daydreaming that all women held this attitude. The curse that God put on women was effectively put on men. ;)
 
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Romans 8

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Your false representation of a hateful power-hungry god of retribution, fear, and control is extremely abusive, yes.

If you read through the thread, you will see that nobody is representing a hateful or demeaning attitude. It's all in your head. Turn that frown upside down.
 
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archer75

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I'm sorry, I thought you were married ;)
I understand that you are joking, but why joke? It sounded in your post that I responded to like you really thought that it was either

-man decides everything. Period. Wallpaper, where to live, what kind of lock on the door, wife's undergarments, who she's allowed to speak to, everything

OR

-a ten-round deathmatch literally every day over whose turn it is to do the dishes, with the woman shrieking like a banshee that she is being oppressed.

Maybe I misunderstood?
 
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derpytia

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I think we agree. You sound like you agree with me on most things. But if you could see that the submitting/leading part of the relationship would not even be noticed if both parties played their role. You sound like an easy going person, and I hope you understand that it's not about oppression. I have zero desire to rule over anyone. I want a partner that is feminine and isn't going to battle on every decision that needs to be made. I don't want any male-like attributes in my partner. I want a woman. Do you know what I mean? Feminism reverses the roles of men and women. It's just so unattractive.




Yes, women should be treated like Jesus treated them. But He was still the head.

I think you are looking at this from what you think is a purely Biblical view but it is clouded by your own needs and wants. What male-like attributes are you thinking of? If a woman knows how to fix a car or is good at sports does this make her male-like? If so, that's rubbish. Male-like attributes should, again, point to how Jesus behaved. A man should be a leader and protective of those he cares about. He should be brave enough to be vulnerable around the woman he loves and should take her feelings into account.

Christian feminism doesn't reverse the roles of men and women in my opinion. It merely challenges the long held ideas of late scholars of Israel of Jesus' day and onwards who held such a low opinion of women that their ideas pervaded society and took away many of the rights and respect afforded to women in the OT (ex. Ecclesiasticus and Tertullia
 
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Sparagmos

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I would doubt that people in that time period would openly discuss their sex lives. And since most married couple had large families I presume the sex life was a bit on the rich side.
I’m not asking your opinions or guesses. Have you read anything about the history of sexuality and romantic love? We know that women had far less sexual satisfaction 200 years ago.

Are you so naive to think that reproduction requires any kind of pleasure for the woman?
 
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bekkilyn

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If you read through the thread, you will see that nobody is representing a hateful or demeaning attitude. It's all in your head. Turn that frown upside down.

I have read through the thread, and yes, the god that you are promoting here is not Christ or in any way Christ-like, even though you have cherry-picked verses out of context to try to create a world with what you want at the center of it, as shown by another one of your statements below.

I want a partner that is feminine and isn't going to battle on every decision that needs to be made. I don't want any male-like attributes in my partner. I want a woman. Do you know what I mean? Feminism reverses the roles of men and women. It's just so unattractive.

It's all about you and what you want, and you have created a god in your image.
 
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Romans 8

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I understand that you are joking, but why joke? It sounded in your post that I responded to like you really thought that it was either

-man decides everything. Period. Wallpaper, where to live, what kind of lock on the door, wife's undergarments, who she's allowed to speak to, everything

OR

-a ten-round deathmatch literally every day over whose turn it is to do the dishes, with the woman shrieking like a banshee that she is being oppressed.

Maybe I misunderstood?

Good examples, especially number two ;)
I think that all decisions should be discussed but the final decision of the husband should be supported by his wife. I think there would be very few issues as most of the decisions made would be agreed upon anyway.
 
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Romans 8

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I’m not asking your opinions or guesses. Have you read anything about the history of sexuality and romantic love? We know that women had far less sexual satisfaction 200 years ago.

Are you so naive to think that reproduction requires any kind of pleasure for the woman?
 
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Romans 8

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I have read through the thread, and yes, the god that you are promoting here is not Christ or in any way Christ-like, even though you have cherry-picked verses out of context to try to create a world with what you want at the center of it, as shown by another one of your statements below.

It's all about you and what you want, and you have created a god in your image.

It's in the bible. What book are you reading? And why are you in this angry and hateful thread?
 
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derpytia

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Women in the OT were given a lot of respect, freedom, and protection under the law of God.

They were given protection during pregnancy - Exodus 21:22
God says that children must honor their Father AND their Mother - Exodus 20:12, Exodus 21:15, Exodus 21:17
Proverbs chapter 31 describes and PRAISES a woman who a husband "trusts from his heart". She is able to plant a whole vineyard with her own hand (look, a woman working) after buying it herself. She provides for the household and even the servants herself. She makes and sells things to provide for her household (look, a woman owning a business). She "opens her mouth with wisdom" (she is educated in the law and is capable of being wise).
Elisha the consults with a woman and listens to her in 2 Kings 4:22-25.
In 2 Kings 22:14-20, Israel's priests went to a woman prophetess to hear what God had to say and listened to her.
In Judges 4:4-8 Deborah, a woman, was a prophetess and a God-appointed JUDGE over Israel.
In Deuteronomy men AND women alike are encouraged to learn God's word and law for themselves so that they might be educated. Deuteronomy 31:12.
In Nehemiah 8:1-3 men AND women listened to the public reading of the law so that both sexes could hear and understand it.

It is only when scholars who had no business being scholars said things like "Sin began with a woman, and thanks to her we must all die." or "You are the devil’s gateway: you are the unsealer of that forbidden tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law . . . You destroyed so easily God’s image, man." in Jesus' day that women lost their rights at the hands of men.

When God said that men will rule over women to Eve, He wasn't giving a command. He was telling her what would happen due to the now fallen nature of the world. And look, it happened. Men started treating women terribly and dominating them because they could instead of partnering with her in a relationship where they are equal.
 
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Romans 8

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I’m not asking your opinions or guesses. Have you read anything about the history of sexuality and romantic love? We know that women had far less sexual satisfaction 200 years ago.

Are you so naive to think that reproduction requires any kind of pleasure for the woman?

How do we know this? I asked for evidence, you provided nothing. But, before you bother...should we even care? Why is this so important?
 
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bekkilyn

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It's in the bible. What book are you reading? And why are you in this angry and hateful thread?

Ephesians 5:21 is also in the bible. Also John 13:34.

Currently, I'm reading the book of Ezekiel, for reasons completely unrelated to this thread.
 
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Romans 8

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Ephesians 5:21 is also in the bible. Also John 13:34.

Currently, I'm reading the book of Ezekiel, for reasons completely unrelated to this thread.

That's great that you're reading the bible. Both verses claim that men and women should love one another. But they say nothing about authority.
 
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Thir7ySev3n

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Ephesians 5:21 is also in the bible. Also John 13:34.

Currently, I'm reading the book of Ezekiel, for reasons completely unrelated to this thread.

Jesus loved His church but is still its head (authority). Ephesians 5 also explicates the way in which husbands and wives are to "submit" to one another, which was the whole point of the follow-up from "submit to one another" beginning with "wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior." Husbands "submit" themselves to their wives by sacrificing their time, energy and body's to nurture and protect their wife.

Love does not exclude authority, or the very one who is love has failed to demonstrate what He himself is.
 
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derpytia

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When? in the OT, NT, today?

From the moment sin entered into the world it started happening. Why do you think there was so much sin in the world that God had to create the Flood in Noah's day? It happened in the days of Moses, which is why God set down the laws protecting and uplifting the women of Israel. God knew it was happening and did not approve. He did not want His people to treat women like other nations did which makes sense because He wanted His people to be Holy.

It happened in the New Testament during Jesus day after these scholars I mentioned started solely blaming women for the Fall. Israel's women lost their rights. They were not allowed to speak to men in public for any reason. They were not allowed to get an education, to speak or ask questions about God's law. They were not even allowed to hear or read God's law for themselves. And many women were not allowed to leave their homes unless accompanied by their husband or father. Jesus did the unthinkable when he addressed women in public places, treated them as spiritual equals, and spoke of the Word of God with them.

The mistreatment of women in or out of a marriage still happens today. If you doubt that then maybe it would be a good idea for you to some of your own research. You are fortunate the live in Canada where women have rights set down by your country's laws. Women in some other countries are NOT afforded the same rights.
 
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