Bold Prediction: Over-the-phone ministered healing to a specific member of this community!

Alithis said:

whats the context of this ?

the reason i ask is because believe is also a verb .. and action i.e. because i believe a thing i ACT on it and there for receive the promised result .

so many people treat the words of JEsus and the gospel of Jesus like a cake recipe that you read and then sit and wait for the cake because they say they believe the recipe .
yet the very recipe they read has a section called METHOD: this part gives instructions on what we are to do . but being only hearers of the recipe they do not DO the recipe -
and are self deceived into thinking the cake will fall into their lap - it wont .

@Oscarr .. ya like that analogy

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It is important to spend time getting to know the will of God about a matter before we try and act on our belief. I can believe that when I go down to the car yard to buy a brand new car God will provide the money while I am on the way there, and I get all the way there with nothing happening, and then think that God has failed me. But I did not spend enough time with God to find out whether He wanted me to have a new car.

I remember when I was three years into my university degree, I got down to the last $100 in my bank account. I told God that if He wanted me to finish the degree He would have to provide for me, otherwise I would have to go and look for a job to earn a living. Three days later I got a phone call from the local post office (I used to work for the Post Office before I started university), offering me a part-time job. God did not miraculously give me a handout. He opened up an opportunity to earn a part-time wage to meet my daily needs. This showed me that God wanted me to finish my degree. I did not tell God how and when to provide for me. I did not "believe for it" in any way. I just trusted God through the Scripture: "Everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, make your requests to God and the peace of God that passes all understanding will keep your hearts and minds in Christ". I put the whole thing in His hands to do what He saw best - get a job and continue part-time at university, or be provided in some other way to enable me to finish my degree. After the part time job at the post office ended, I was able to gain a diploma in Typewriting teaching, and then got a part-time job teaching typing to adult students at a Secretarial college.

I could have used "positive confession", "believing for it" to be provided with a motor vehicle to get around instead of my bicycle, a flat of my own instead of having to board, extra money to dine out at restaurants and for my other hobbies; but nothing would have happened, because God was going to provide just for what I needed to live, travel to university and back, and pay for my tuition and text books.

Oscarr said:

Although those Scriptures are quite true, they do not support using faith as a power in itself. This is the serious deception that has infiltrated the church - that the principle of faith and trust in God has been corrupted to turn it into a power in itself to "force" God to do what we want Him to to do.

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Perhaps there needs to be some balance here.
If we can't expect anything from God we are Deists. (spiritual orphans)

Oscarr said:

It is important to spend time getting to know the will of God about a matter before we try and act on our belief. I can believe that when I go down to the car yard to buy a brand new car God will provide the money while I am on the way there, and I get all the way there with nothing happening, and then think that God has failed me. But I did not spend enough time with God to find out whether He wanted me to have a new car.

I remember when I was three years into my university degree, I got down to the last $100 in my bank account. I told God that if He wanted me to finish the degree He would have to provide for me, otherwise I would have to go and look for a job to earn a living. Three days later I got a phone call from the local post office (I used to work for the Post Office before I started university), offering me a part-time job. God did not miraculously give me a handout. He opened up an opportunity to earn a part-time wage to meet my daily needs. This showed me that God wanted me to finish my degree. I did not tell God how and when to provide for me. I did not "believe for it" in any way. I just trusted God through the Scripture: "Everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, make your requests to God and the peace of God that passes all understanding will keep your hearts and minds in Christ". I put the whole thing in His hands to do what He saw best - get a job and continue part-time at university, or be provided in some other way to enable me to finish my degree. After the part time job at the post office ended, I was able to gain a diploma in Typewriting teaching, and then got a part-time job teaching typing to adult students at a Secretarial college.

I could have used "positive confession", "believing for it" to be provided with a motor vehicle to get around instead of my bicycle, a flat of my own instead of having to board, extra money to dine out at restaurants and for my other hobbies; but nothing would have happened, because God was going to provide just for what I needed to live, travel to university and back, and pay for my tuition and text books.

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Im speaking directly on the lines of the work of the Gospel..
Doing that which we are very directly unambiguously directed to do.

Not the lines of "you ask not so you have not and when you do ask you ask for wrong motive."
To bring life to people is always the unchallenged will of God...it is the very nature of Christ within us to do so.
We need never seek his will on this matter when he has so plainly made it already clear to us

Saint Steven said:

Perhaps there needs to be some balance here.
If we can't expect anything from God we are Deists. (spiritual orphans)

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We can expect from God what He has already promised us in His Word, no more.

What I am refuting is using faith as a power in itself, or using an adaptation of Norman Vincent Peale's "The Power Of Positive Thinking" to get things from God.

Oscarr said:

Because God is sovereign and not a "vending machine" where we can pop in a prayer like a coin and out comes the result, when I minister healing to anyone, either on CF or in person, I minister out of obedience to God's Word rather than for results.

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You don't try to see to it they are healed because you want them healed?

At any rate, those from CF that you have "administered healing to", first, what exactly does that mean? Secondly If they have ever actually been healed, and if it is truly a provable healing that would most likely perplex their doctor, could you please ask them if they will talk to us on this or better yet start a thread? I'll start it for them if they like.

I ask because I think it would help many people here who truly have faith to know someone else is actually making this happen, clearing a lot of things up for one, as well as hopefully they will be inspired to try it on others...Thanks

Alithis said:

Im speaking directly on the lines of the work of the Gospel..
Doing that which we are very directly unambiguously directed to do.

Not the lines of "you ask not so you have not and when you do ask you ask for wrong motive."
To bring life to people is always the unchallenged will of God...it is the very nature of Christ within us to do so.
We need never seek his will on this matter when he has so plainly made it already clear to us

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Kenny'sID said:

You don't try to see to it they are healed because you want them healed?

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Of course we want to see a sick person get well; but if that is our primary motive for ministering healing, then it is a selfish motive and has no value with God. But if we want the healing because Christ will be glorified and souls will be saved as a result, then that is the kind of motive that God could respond to. But first we need to ask God whether this is the right time to minister healing with the expectation that the healing will happen right then, and to wait upon Him for His answer. He might say, 'Go ahead and minister the healing but trust Me for the results if nothing happens right away." Then we do it out of obedience and not for results. But if the Holy Spirit said to you very clearly and unmistakenly that when you minister the healing it will happen right away, then you can have confidence that the miracle will happen.

But we have to make sure that it is really the Holy Spirit who is speaking, because often one might say the Holy Spirit has spoken when He hasn't, and the person goes ahead on the basis of wishful thinking. When the Holy Spirit speaks, He is unmistakable and there is absolutely no doubt that He has spoken. This could go right against the logical mind and the emotions and instruct you to do something quite different to what you expect, but when you obey things happen.

At any rate, those from CF that you have "administered healing to", first, what exactly does that mean? Secondly If they have ever actually been healed, and if it is truly a provable healing that would most likely perplex their doctor, could you please ask them if they will talk to us on this or better yet start a thread? I'll start it for them if they like.

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What I do when I offer the ministry to someone, I ask them first, and if they say, "Yes", I tell them that they don't need any faith, because I have faith for both of us. Then I put my hand on their wrist (the least impacting part of the body so as not to spook the person), and I say, "Jesus heals you". I tell them that I can't heal a flea with a headache, so I just pray out of obedience and leave the rest to Him. I have never been refused, and every person I have ministered to has appreciated that I have cared enough to do it for them. One young lady said, "Thank you for the blessing!" There is no magical power in what I do. I just do it trusting the Scripture: "I am the God who heals you."

If I do it online through CF, I just command the healing in obedience to the Scripture, "Heal the sick", and leave the actual results to the Lord. I did that for one lady on CF who had recurring kidney problems which flared up once a month, requiring treatment. I commanded that her kidneys restored to their normal function. Three months later she reported that there had been no more flare-up of her kidneys. She felt that was a miracle from God.

I ask because I think it would help many people here who truly have faith to know someone else is actually making this happen, clearing a lot of things up for one, as well as hopefully they will be inspired to try it on others...Thanks

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I never expect the sick person to have faith for healing. Usually a person is fully occupied coping with their sickness to have any room or energy to have faith. I believe that it is the responsibility for the person ministering the healing to have the requisite faith. If there is enough faith in the sick person to accept the ministry from me, then that is all that is needed on behalf of the sick person. Then I exercise my faith to take the person by the wrist and tell that part of the sick person's body to resume its normal function. That's all I can do out of obedience to God's Word. I then have to leave the results to God Himself.

I think that people got healed through the work of the 70 whom Jesus sent out because Jesus told them directly, "Heal the sick". That was a direct word from Jesus Himself to those disciples, therefore the healing had to take place.

If the same happened to any of us - that Jesus gave a direct word through the Holy Spirit - "Heal that sick person", then that would be a direct rhema word, and the healing would happen.

There is a difference between the "logos" word that we see on the printed page of the Bible, which we can put our general trust in. But when the Holy Spirit activates the logos word, transforming it into a rhema word, then the Spirit speaking and working through that rhema word is irresistible. Things have to happen. The problem with a lot of healing ministries that don't work is that the practitioners are using the logos word, without waiting on God until the word become a rhema to them. Once the word "I am the Lord who heals you" becomes a rhema for that person, the miracle takes place because it is God's direct will that the person is instantly healed right there.

Oscarr said:

We can expect from God what He has already promised us in His Word, no more.

What I am refuting is using faith as a power in itself, or using an adaptation of Norman Vincent Peale's "The Power Of Positive Thinking" to get things from God.

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Romans 4:17
As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

Saint Steven said:

Romans 4:17
As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

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Notice that it was not Abraham, but God Himself who "calls into being things that were not". It is not the "namer and claimer" who calls those things into being by using faith as a power in itself, but it is God who works according to His own will and pleasure.

Oscarr said:

Notice that it was not Abraham, but God Himself who "calls into being things that were not". It is not the "namer and claimer" who calls those things into being by using faith as a power in itself, but it is God who works according to His own will and pleasure.

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But Abraham believed God and it was counted as faith. Should we not also believe God? If we don't get healed, is that God's fault?

Matthew 9:28-30
When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored. Jesus warned them sternly, “See that no one knows about this.”

Saint Steven said:

But Abraham believed God and it was counted as faith. Should we not also believe God? If we don't get healed, is that God's fault?

Matthew 9:28-30
When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored. Jesus warned them sternly, “See that no one knows about this.”

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Abraham believed God, he did not use faith as a power separate from God. His faith was in God's promise that He would make him the father of many nations, and this was when he was way past being able to sire children. Then he trusted God when God told him to sacrifice his only son. It was his trust in God that was counted as righteousness. This is the correct definition of godly faith - trust and dependence on God. It is not using "faith" as a power to achieve results.

Jesus did not say that it was their faith that healed the blind me. He said "according to your faith". What He said was actually, "According to your trust in Me". The question that Jesus asked them was, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" When they answered yes, Jesus acknowledged their trust in Him. He did not tell the blind men, "Just start believing and your believing will bring the healing", did He? Of course not! Those blind men could believe until the cows came home and they would have been healed. It was only when Jesus touched their eyes that they were healed. It was not them using their faith to get healed. It was their trust in Jesus and His ability to heal them that achieved the results.

If you could get results just by "believing", you wouldn't need God at all!

Oscarr said:

Abraham believed God, he did not use faith as a power separate from God. His faith was in God's promise that He would make him the father of many nations, and this was when he was way past being able to sire children. Then he trusted God when God told him to sacrifice his only son. It was his trust in God that was counted as righteousness. This is the correct definition of godly faith - trust and dependence on God. It is not using "faith" as a power to achieve results.

Jesus did not say that it was their faith that healed the blind me. He said "according to your faith". What He said was actually, "According to your trust in Me". The question that Jesus asked them was, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" When they answered yes, Jesus acknowledged their trust in Him. He did not tell the blind men, "Just start believing and your believing will bring the healing", did He? Of course not! Those blind men could believe until the cows came home and they would have been healed. It was only when Jesus touched their eyes that they were healed. It was not them using their faith to get healed. It was their trust in Jesus and His ability to heal them that achieved the results.

If you could get results just by "believing", you wouldn't need God at all!

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Thanks, Oscarr.

I agree that they were not healed according to their own abilities. But Jesus said, "According to your faith let it be done for you." Meaning the resources were available in proportion to their faith.

Therefore, when we point to supposed examples where healing did not come are we not limiting what God can do for us? Would these blind men have been healed if they had answered differently?

Jesus asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied.
What would we say? -- "We believe you heal some and not others according to your will."

The answer would be the same. "According to your faith let it be done for you." And they would have gone away blind or with limited sight.

THIS IS THE SAD STATE OF THINGS!

On the other hand, those who are raised from the dead have no faith.
And at times people are healed according to the faith of others.

I was in a meeting once where a malady was named that God wanted to heal. Someone in the audience said they were praying for the brother of someone in a far away city. The minister asked them to call the sister so we could pray over the phone. After we prayed, the sister called her brother to tell him we had prayed for him. He wasn't able to come to the phone. They were cleaning up the mess his now functioning bladder had made when he received healing. It had been non-functioning for two years. (if I remember correctly)

Most "believers" on this topic wouldn't have even made the call. Why bother? God doesn't work that way, right?

What are we missing when we make the claim that God doesn't always heal?

"According to your faith let it be done for you." - Jesus

Oscarr said:

Abraham believed God, he did not use faith as a power separate from God. His faith was in God's promise that He would make him the father of many nations, and this was when he was way past being able to sire children. Then he trusted God when God told him to sacrifice his only son. It was his trust in God that was counted as righteousness. This is the correct definition of godly faith - trust and dependence on God. It is not using "faith" as a power to achieve results.

Jesus did not say that it was their faith that healed the blind me. He said "according to your faith". What He said was actually, "According to your trust in Me". The question that Jesus asked them was, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" When they answered yes, Jesus acknowledged their trust in Him. He did not tell the blind men, "Just start believing and your believing will bring the healing", did He? Of course not! Those blind men could believe until the cows came home and they would have been healed. It was only when Jesus touched their eyes that they were healed. It was not them using their faith to get healed. It was their trust in Jesus and His ability to heal them that achieved the results.

If you could get results just by "believing", you wouldn't need God at all!

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Saint Steven said:

But Abraham believed God and it was counted as faith. Should we not also believe God? If we don't get healed, is that God's fault?

Matthew 9:28-30
When he had gone indoors, the blind men came to him, and he asked them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they replied. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”; 30 and their sight was restored. Jesus warned them sternly, “See that no one knows about this.”

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in all these examples... Faith is shown by action.
Abraham believed God..
How do we know?
He obeyed him.and went to sacrifice his son...
His action displayed his belief was real.. His action is faith.

The man did the action of "coming to Jesus" ...

As in the days when Jesus was alive in bodily form and healed the sick, he did it in different ways. A woman touched his garment and was healed. He spat on a man's eyes to give him back his sight. He spoke the word of healing to the Roman official and the daughter was healed without Jesus being physically present at her bedside etc.

I know he heals and I have received healing on a few times but there are other ongoing health issues that have been prayed for on numerous occasions but are still hanging around.

I do believe somebody can be healed over the phone as I was healed through the screen of my PC a few years ago.

Saint Steven said:

As far as I can tell, there are only two reasons to disagree with the OP.
1) Unbelief.
2) The traditions of men.

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Sorry, but I don't think that's entirely true.
I am sure that almost everyone here would agree that God can heal, and does, today; God's ability to heal is not the issue.
For myself, the issue is the nature of the OP. For example:

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

I am issuing this bold prediction at a cost, because I believe what God said so strongly that it has to cost me something if I am wrong. Though I love this forum (as one could see from my number of posts over time), I am so sure that God heals that I won't ever post again--after Wednesday at approximately 1:30 PM (Eastern Standard Time) when my over-the-phone ministering begins--unless the man from this community that I am ministering healing to is healed in the present time.

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So, Johnny was utterly convinced that he was to pray for a man at a certain time, and he was so certain in God's healing power that, if the man wasn't healed, Johnny would never post here again.

O.k - but who told Johnny to do that?
Did he receive a word from the Lord to pray for someone at a certain time, with the promise that when he obeyed, that individual would be healed? If so, why post on here and tell US about it? The word was to him; the promise (if it was made) was that if HE prayed - not, if he rallied Christian Forums to pray with him. If God gives us a command/word/promise and asks us to do something, he is asking US as individuals; not the internet. So that's the first thing - it shouldn't concern us, collectively.
Secondly, did God say that the person involved would be physically healed at that time? If so, why wasn't he? God doesn't give idle words or promises, or tease us and say something that isn't true.
Thirdly, did GOD ask Johnny to never post here again until the person was healed, or was that a condition that Johnny came up with - a kind of "look, Lord, I'm showing you how much faith I have; I'm publicly stating that I am not going to do X until or unless you heal?" If so, not posting here again til healing took place was HIS idea and a rule that HE, not God, imposed upon himself.

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

I have read posts from people who say that nothing ever changes and nobody's opinion changes, and they don't feel that being a part of this forum adds any value. Maybe uninspired talking and uninspired wisdom doesn't add value and maybe that is because God never intended us to use carnal weapons against the spiritual forces that are behind false doctrine, according to God's Word as found in The Bible. Maybe human bantering with human wisdom doesn't add value. But, when God does something supernatural--like what Jesus said in Mar 16:15-18 to validate the Word preached, that has always changed things.

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So why hasn't it?
Was the person healed when Johnny prayed? It would appear not; so what changed?

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

Well, I believe He already has done something for us. And, as an Ambassador in Christ, I am going to prove it.

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What did HE prove?
Is he going to be brave enough to say "ok, I was foolish to place conditions and a time limit on God; I AM going to post here again, but I'm still believing for this person's healing"?

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

Even if the person being prayed for never posts, for privacy reasons, healing would be value to the person who receives it and to those who know them. Healing would be a sign to unbelievers who know this individual in his local community and those he is closer with online (whom he might have shared with online). If the person does post, he has the credentials to validate his healing.

While I don't have the permission of the party to post his name, he will know whether or not he is genuinely healed.

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Absolutely.
Though it seems that what will prove to US that this person has been healed, is if Johnny posts on here again. Johnny seems to want to convince us that the healing will be genuine - I don't think anyone on here doubts it. The issue is, was it right to ask for healing at that time, in that way?

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

Since he is a member of this community, he and God will both know if he isn't healed and if I post again after the scheduled prayer time (Wednesday at 1:30 EST) without his healing having manifested. Since, I have said that I would never post again until His healing comes to fruition in the present time, I would be lying and all three (including God) would know it.

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Except that Johnny actually DID post again - he felt we needed an update.

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

We will be praying specifically for ringing in the ears and hearing loss. I am believing that the ringing will stop and the hearing loss will cease.

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But is that how God told Johnny to pray, or was that bit his own idea?

What I'm saying is that there seems to be a lot of feeling that this whole "I'm going to prove that I have faith and prove that God is right", position; though seemingly commendable, is in fact from Johnny rather than God. And it's THAT that people are unhappy with.

Asking God to heal, trusting that he will do what is best for the person at the right time and continuing to pray and believe even when we don't see the results that we hoped for, is faith. Saying "I'm going to believe that God WILL do this in this way at this time, and I'm not going to do X until he does", sounds more like bargaining to me.
God could have still healed and graciously decided to meet Johnny's conditions; it seems he didn't.
The question is, how will Johnny respond that that and what will he learn from it?
Or is it us - the "naysayers" - who are being blamed for God not jumping through Johnny's hoops?

Strong in Him said:

Sorry, but I don't think that's entirely true.
I am sure that almost everyone here would agree that God can heal, and does, today; God's ability to heal is not the issue.

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- Claiming God doesn't always heal is unbelief. (#1)
- Claiming that healing shouldn't be done this way is the traditions of men. (#2)
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As far as I can tell, there are only two reasons to disagree with the OP.
1) Unbelief.
2) The traditions of men.

Oscarr said:

It is important to spend time getting to know the will of God about a matter before we try and act on our belief.

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So True.

Proverbs 19:2
It isn't good to have zeal without knowledge; nor being hasty with one's feet and missing the way.

Saint Steven said:

No. Not by a long shot.
Nothing personal. I just disagree.

Johnny had already made a stand. He put it all on the line. No turning back.
His honor was at stake. If he backed out, who would ever trust him again?
Would he even be able to live with himself?

He would be left in the corner wearing the dunce hat for the rest of his days.
I know, I know... that's a bit dramatic. But...

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I have respect for those who admit they are wrong.

Saint Steven said:

- Claiming God doesn't always heal is unbelief. (#1)
- Claiming that healing shouldn't be done this way is the traditions of men. (#2)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As far as I can tell, there are only two reasons to disagree with the OP.
1) Unbelief.
2) The traditions of men.

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Being honest Steve - that sounds way too simplistic
I could throw a few other reasons into the mix.

Here's one

Proverbs 28:9
The prayers of a person who ignores the Law are despised

Does that still apply today?

Saint Steven said:

- Claiming God doesn't always heal is unbelief. (#1)

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No it's not.
There are many people who have not been/were not granted the physical healing they prayed for - that's a fact. Joni Eareckson is still in a wheelchair, Alec Buchannan had MS, David Watson died of cancer, John Wimber had a brain hemorrhage (iirc).
I have read their testimonies - all believe(d) in a God who heals, all believe(d) that they were healed of things from the past and had emotional healing - none were healed physically.

Saint Steven said:

- Claiming that healing shouldn't be done this way is the traditions of men.

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God can heal in any way he chooses, and does - Jesus did not always ask people if they had faith.
God can also say "wait" or "no" in answer to prayer - denying this is to say that God is not Sovereign, does not do what is best but is in fact like a vending machine - put a prayer in; get healing back.

Besides, as I said, IF God gave Johnny a word that someone would be healed at a certain time after he prayed for them - why weren't they?
Why aren't we all rejoicing, with Johnny, today and marvelling at the way his prayer was answered?

This doesn't mean that God will, or can, never heal the person concerned - but it seems the OP was wrong about the way in which it would happen.

W2L said:

I have respect for those who admit they are wrong.

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Do you have respect for those who succumb to social pressure when they were right?