Peter1000
Well-Known Member
Created is the same as made is the same as formed, here is the parallelism:
Isa. 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Thank you for this scripture, it says exactly what I have been saying about the word "bara" in Hebrew.
The first level of the definition of this word says it means to create, shape, or form. The idea that "create" means making something out of nothing, is not evidenced in this definition. I believe philosophers and scholars and church men between 150ad to 325ad added the idea of "out of nothing" to the creation process to give their God a more powerful presence among the gods in existence in their day.
The Bible says that God hung the earth upon nothing:
Job. 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Even though the bible makes this statement, we know that God did not hang the earth upon nothing.
God used the forces of gravity to hang the earth in space, exactly where it needed to be to keep it in its orbit around the sun. It is in a "goldielocks" location, because it is perfectly positioned for environmental purposes, such as no extreme weather conditions, and the gravity of the sun and the other planets in the solar system were created for the express purpose of holding this earth in its place and keep it on the right path, and protect it from space debris. Interesting discussion.
The Bible says that the earth did not always exist, neither the matter to which it is now made of:
Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
I can agree that the bible says that the earth did not always exist, but it says nothing of the atoms and molecules that eventually made up the mountains of the earth. So from my prospective, you cannot say, "neither the matter to which it is now made of". I believe God took existing matter, and formed the perfect globe with it.
This seems to be the case if you read Genesis 1:1-8.
The bible starts by saying that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (vs 1) This is a starting statement and then it starts the details of how this creation took place.
In day 1 God said, let there be light. (vs 3)
In day 2 day God said let there be the heavens. (vs 6 & 8)
Now what is interesting about this start is that before day 1 in vs 3, it says that the earth existed as a void and dark blob, covered by water. (vs 2, before day 1) The bible in vs 2 does not say "God created" or "God said" or anything, just the earth was without form and void and dark and covered with water. Then on day 1, God said let there be light.
So the question is: did the material for the earth exist before the creation of the earth and everything under and over the earth? Another way to ask the question is: On what day of creation did God create the earth or for that fact, the water? We know that he created the heavens in day 2, but what day did God created the earth and what day did God say Let there be the dust of the earth or Let there be water? Only in vs 2 before the creation days started. Interesting reading in Genesis 1:1-8.
Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Jesus existed before anything that was made:
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Wonderful scripture, thank you for showing me this, I have not seen anyone use this scripture to describe Jesus for years. Here is what is interesting about this scripture:
The KJV says, I (Jesus) was set up.....before the earth was.
The NIV and HOLMAN says, I (Jesus) was formed....before the earth was.
The GNT says, I (Jesus) was made....before the earth was.
The NCV says, I (Jesus) was created....before the earth was.
It is interesting because the Church of Jesus Christ has always taught that Jesus has existed for ever before the earth was created. There has never been a time that Jesus was not. But in what form did he exist from everlasting? We believe his intelligence and spirit have existed forever, but that in some way, God formed or made or set up, or created, the intelligence to be an inseparable part of the spirit, IOW God took the independent intelligence and spirit and housed (made, formed, set up, created) the intelligence in the spirit and they became an inseparable entity.
Here is the real interesting part of this event. You and I also have existed forever from everlasting as an independent intelligence and spirit, and God in some way that is unknown, housed (made, formed, set up, created) your intelligence as in part of your spirit and you became an inseparable entity. Me too, and all men and women too. And Jesus and satan too. We are all spirit children of God. (See Numbers 16:22, Numbers 27:16, Romans 8:16, Psalms 82:6, Hebrews 12:9, Acts 17:28-29) That is why the Church of Jesus Christ can say that we are brothers of Jesus, and Jesus and satan are brothers.
I have probably overloaded you with information, so read it a couple of times and see what your think?
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