What is the woman's role in the family and church?

Endeavourer · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
There's no contradiction, Proverbs 31 supports my conclusion.

How so? The man is sitting in the gates while the woman is buying the farm and running it, as well as operating an international business in order to provide for the home.

According to this chapter, a virtuous woman buys the farm, runs it, runs the business and the finances.

Proverbs 31:10-31
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. (note: no mention of asking her husband first or if his involvement in any way. According to this verse, a virtuous woman considers a field, buys it and plants it.)
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

Dansiph · Apr 6, 2019

Endeavourer said:
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household

Hi, I noticed this in Proverbs 31. This suggests her role is around the home?

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Endeavourer said:
How so? The man is sitting in the gates while the woman is buying the farm and running it, as well as operating an international business in order to provide for the home.

According to this chapter, a virtuous woman buys the farm, runs it, runs the business and the finances.

Proverbs 31:10-31
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. (note: no mention of asking her husband first or if his involvement in any way. According to this verse, a virtuous woman considers a field, buys it and plants it.)
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

And? Where does it define the order of a man and a woman lke it does in Genesis? These are all good attributes and buying land does not mean she's ruling the household, church, or country for that matter.

Hank77 · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
We can already see the impact feminism has made on families and higher divorce rates,

Higher divorce rates started with 'no fault' divorce. Men and women could divorce their spouses without proving that she/he had committed adultery or done something else that was really bad. Granting divorce decrees were/are no longer decisions made by judges.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Hank77 said:
Higher divorce rates started with 'no fault' divorce. Men and women could divorce their spouses without proving that she/he had committed adultery or done something else that was really bad. Granting divorce decrees were/are no longer decisions made by judges.

These things all work together to destroy the family unit. This isn't the main theme of the thread though, but could easily become a new thread.

Hank77 · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
These things all work together to destroy the family unit. This isn't the main theme of the thread though, but could easily become a new thread.

You made the original statement, so that it seemed that it was at least support for your view in the main theme.

Paidiske · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
One of the most clearly stated topics in the bible, yet most grossly ignored is that men should lead the church and family. Why do we disagree on this basic command, yet not so long ago this was the norm. Women were the caretakers looking after the children and the household while the men were off at work taking care of the finances. All of this worked without a hitch until feminism took hold and convinced women they were slaves, and that freedom could be found in the workforce.

On the same note, men have always been the leaders in the church as pastors and teachers, leading the congregation as they were instructed by the bible. Today there's a riff in this order, as both men and women are starting to incorporate their cultural conditioning and social engineering into the church. No longer is it okay for a male led church in some congregations because "women can do the same job". But can they? We were instructed by God to maintain the order He set forth.

We can already see the impact feminism has made on families and higher divorce rates, which leads to children growing up without a father psychological issues because of it. What sort of impact can we expect if we allow women to take leadership roles in the church?

The claim that "all this worked without a hitch" is simply false. We tried patriarchy, and discovered that it was bad for women and often bad for men too. Overly prescriptive gender roles limited both. (And by the way, your description of how they worked is a pretty narrow, post-industrial-revolution, middle-class picture. Men off at work earning a living and women looking after children at home was not a thing for most of human history, or most human societies).

I don't see higher divorce rates as a result of feminism, unless perhaps it means that women are free to leave abusive men more easily, and that is a good thing. Scaremongering about the destruction of the family unit is misplaced.

Romans 8 said:
The question I have is; Will God honor a church led by a woman? Will the Holy Spirit dwell within? Will there be a limit to this church's potential?

God honours those who serve him with obedience, men and women. In my experience, we see effective ministry and mission among churches led by women. So your thesis is sunk.

Hank77 · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
And? Where does it define the order of a man and a woman lke it does in Genesis? These are all good attributes and buying land does not mean she's ruling the household, church, or country for that matter.

Deborah was the judge over all Israel. She went to battle with Barak, probably not as a soldier. It was another woman Jael that killed the enemy leader. After this Israel lived in peace for 40 yrs.
God put her in that place to lead the nation.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Hank77 said:
You made the original statement, so that it seemed that it was at least support for your view in the main theme.

These flexible divorce laws were created around the same time that women entered the work force. This is what I'm referring to, the enemy is leading this.

Gregory Thompson · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
I think it is a big issue when people ignore God for their own desire to lead or control. Again, I question how much the Holy Spirit moves in a church that chooses to disobey. How much more fruit can be produced when we obey vs doing our own thing?

This form of disobedience can effect the spiritual growth of whole congregation in attempts to making things "fair" for a few individuals. It's sabotage.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is produced when we trust Him. It is our work to believe, and that's it.

I find ignoring a man's interpretation of the scripture is not the same as ignoring God.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Paidiske said:
The claim that "all this worked without a hitch" is simply false. We tried patriarchy, and discovered that it was bad for women and often bad for men too. Overly prescriptive gender roles limited both. (And by the way, your description of how they worked is a pretty narrow, post-industrial-revolution, middle-class picture. Men off at work earning a living and women looking after children at home was not a thing for most of human history, or most human societies).

I don't see higher divorce rates as a result of feminism, unless perhaps it means that women are free to leave abusive men more easily, and that is a good thing. Scaremongering about the destruction of the family unit is misplaced.

God honours those who serve him with obedience, men and women. In my experience, we see effective ministry and mission among churches led by women. So your thesis is sunk.

We tried patriarchy? lol. I can see it was a mistake mentioning feminism and divorce in the main post, because now this is all that those that disagree will choose to focus on.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Paidiske said:
God honours those who serve him with obedience, men and women.

I agree, and His order must be followed to be obedient.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Michael Collum said:
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is produced when we trust Him. It is our work to believe, and that's it.

I find ignoring a man's interpretation of the scripture is not the same as ignoring God.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is produced when we obey Him.

JacksBratt · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
One of the most clearly stated topics in the bible, yet most grossly ignored is that men should lead the church and family. Why do we disagree on this basic command, yet not so long ago this was the norm. Women were the caretakers looking after the children and the household while the men were off at work taking care of the finances. All of this worked without a hitch until feminism took hold and convinced women they were slaves, and that freedom could be found in the workforce.

On the same note, men have always been the leaders in the church as pastors and teachers, leading the congregation as they were instructed by the bible. Today there's a riff in this order, as both men and women are starting to incorporate their cultural conditioning and social engineering into the church. No longer is it okay for a male led church in some congregations because "women can do the same job". But can they? We were instructed by God to maintain the order He set forth.

We can already see the impact feminism has made on families and higher divorce rates, which leads to children growing up without a father psychological issues because of it. What sort of impact can we expect if we allow women to take leadership roles in the church?

I think that the problems with this is that too many men thought that this meant that they were to dominate...

This is not the case.

Then, with so many abusive men using this "man is the head" as meaning "do as I say".... it caused a lot of rebellion.

The man is to lead, he is to be the last word... However, he is to do what is best for the family unit.. not what is best for him. He is to treat his wife like she is a part of his body...

How many men, spouting "I am the head" do this?

The whole set up requires the man to be a servant.. as Christ was. Putting himself last and the others first.

Not many men understand the responsibility that this places on them. Too many men had bad role models and thus.. rebellious mothers too.

The biggest problem in society today is the lack of biblical fathers and husbands. Combined with feminists who have all the ammunition that they need. The biblical family unit cannot even be taught without strong opposition due to the corruption of what it really means.

Instead of the man making a throne for his queen.. he made her the slave.. Instead of her, humbly and unwillingly sitting in the throne... she walks in stomps up to it and states that she is queen....

GAME OVER.

Gregory Thompson · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is produced when we obey Him.

It's faith, not following commandments.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I think that the problems with this is that too many men thought that this meant that they were to dominate...

This is not the case.

Then, with so many abusive men using this "man is the head" as meaning "do as I say".... it caused a lot of rebellion.

The man is to lead, he is to be the last word... However, he is to do what is best for the family unit.. not what is best for him. He is to treat his wife like she is a part of his body...

How many men, spouting "I am the head" do this?

The whole set up requires the man to be a servant.. as Christ was. Putting himself last and the others first.

Not many men understand the responsibility that this places on them. Too many men had bad role models and thus.. rebellious mothers too.

The biggest problem in society today is the lack of biblical fathers and husbands. Combined with feminists who have all the ammunition that they need. The biblical family unit cannot even be taught without strong opposition due to the corruption of what it really means.

Instead of the man making a throne for his queen.. he made her the slave.. Instead of her, humbly and unwillingly sitting in the throne... she walks in stomps up to it and states that she is queen....

GAME OVER.

I agree with almost everything, and great post by the way! I'm not so sure that men overcompensated or abused their "right" to rule. Is there history to show this happened on a large scale? I don't believe there is. It's more likely that as a result of women joining the work force, and making their own money, and later the government replacing the man as "husband" and provider, women were enabled to survive on their man's income without his consent. The situation we have today is appalling.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Michael Collum said:
It's faith, not following commandments.

It's both my friend.

Romans 8 · Apr 6, 2019

Michael Collum said:
It's faith, not following commandments.

The ten commandments are every bit as valid today as they were in Moses time. And since Jesus improved on them I'd say even more valid. Through faith we can follow the commandments as we see in Romans 8. But do not delude yourself, the commandments must be adhered to. God Bless.

Martyr's Crown · Apr 6, 2019

......(forgot to see if I was a part of this forum. And I am clearly not, so I apologize for having answered to this earlier. Even though it brought good thoughts in mind and reminding me of what is said in Scripture)

SteveIndy · Apr 6, 2019

Romans 8 said:
One of the most clearly stated topics in the bible, yet most grossly ignored is that men should lead the church and family. Why do we disagree on this basic command, yet not so long ago this was the norm. Women were the caretakers looking after the children and the household while the men were off at work taking care of the finances. All of this worked without a hitch until feminism took hold and convinced women they were slaves, and that freedom could be found in the workforce.

On the same note, men have always been the leaders in the church as pastors and teachers, leading the congregation as they were instructed by the bible. Today there's a riff in this order, as both men and women are starting to incorporate their cultural conditioning and social engineering into the church. No longer is it okay for a male led church in some congregations because "women can do the same job". But can they? We were instructed by God to maintain the order He set forth.

We can already see the impact feminism has made on families and higher divorce rates, which leads to children growing up without a father psychological issues because of it. What sort of impact can we expect if we allow women to take leadership roles in the church?

The world will do what the world will do. As far as the institutional Church goes we are witnessing the imploding of the commercial Church. We are not promised a great harvest of Christians in the last days. Scriptures are clear that very few will be able to enter through the strait (as in difficult) gate and narrow is the way that leads to the Kingdom. On the contrary easy is the way and broad is the way of the commercial Church and that is the path the majority of so called followers of Christ are treading. These verses do not seem to bother anyone because they have been convinced by their heired preachers to pacify and appease dumb sheep who will not take the time to find the truth for themselves. None will loose any sleep tonight contemplating those words.

The situation you describe does not apply to everyone, there are those who have and do obey the dictates of there God.

What is the woman's role in the family and church?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Clara bonam audax

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Searching for Truth

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Sunflower Jewel

Well-Known Member

Similar threads