LDS Mormonism - Relief Society Lesson 1972

Ironhold

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I'm glad I don't worship your god. Doesn't he know ahead of time that they will die before this "mental state" is reached? If so, why does he send them in the first place? Seems pointless. If he doesn't know ahead of time, what kind of god is he? Certainly not the God found in the Bible!

Isn't your god ultimately responsible for their deaths, since he's the one who sent them here to die a pointless death so early in their lives?

We believe that God, as much as it pains him, allows people their free will, even if that free will means they do wrong.
 
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Ironhold

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They go back to heaven--with their blank slates---makes sense to you? Or are they send back to earth again in the hopes of getting a better deal? How many go-rounds they get? A little twist on the old reincarnation theory.

They've had their time on Earth, and their burdens are over. They'll be taught what they need to know.
 
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drstevej

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We believe that God, as much as it pains him, allows people their free will, even if that free will means they do wrong.


I'll start a new thread, don't want to go off topic.
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses. Animal sacrifice is no longer necessary. However temple ordinances still need to be performed and will continue to be performed although Satan would stop them if he could. You are correct, the laver was not for baptizing, the molten sea was.


No, it was for the priests to wash their hands and feet in.

Exo 30:17 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 30:18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
Exo 30:19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:
Exo 30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:
2Ch 4:6 He made also ten lavers, and put five on the right hand, and five on the left, to wash in them: such things as they offered for the burnt offering they washed in them; but the sea was for the priests to wash in.
 
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mmksparbud

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They've had their time on Earth, and their burdens are over. They'll be taught what they need to know.


So---while back in heaven they can be taught what they need to know----seems totally unnessary then to come down here at all if thery can be taught there.
 
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BigDaddy4

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We believe that God, as much as it pains him, allows people their free will, even if that free will means they do wrong.
What did the 3 or 5 year old in the example provided do wrong? How did they have "free will" to be killed?
 
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Rescued One

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FOR ABLUTION OF PRIESTS, not for the dead:

The Molten Sea or Brazen Sea was a large basin in the Temple in Jerusalem made by Solomon for ablution of the priests. It is described in 1 Kings 7:23-26 and 2 Chronicles 4:2-5. It stood in the south-eastern corner of the inner court. Wikipedia

The ten lavers are described by the bible as being placed around the Temple building itself, five on the north side and the other five on the south. They were used for washing the hands and feet of the priests before doing ritual service (Exodus 30:18-21). Josephus, says that these lavers were for cleansing the entrails of the sacrificed animals, and their feet.[2][13]
Bronze laver (Temple) - Wikipedia

BRAZEN SEA.
By: Morris Jastrow, Jr., Ira Maurice Price, Marcus Jastrow, Louis Ginzberg

The brazen laver of the Mosaic ritual; made by Solomon out of bronze captured by David at Tibhath and Chun, cities of Hadarezer (I Chron. xviii. 8). It served the same purpose for the officiating priests of Solomon's Temple as did the layer for those officers at the tabernacle The dimensions of the sea (I Kings vii. 23-26) were as follows: height, 5 cubits; circumference, 30 cubits (consequently it was about 10 cubits in diameter); and a handbreadth in thickness. It was capable of holding 2,000 "baths"; on the smallest calculation, about 17,000 gallons. "Under the brim of it round about there were knops which did compass it, for ten cubits compassing the sea round about; the knops were in two rows, cast when it was cast" (ib. 24). This great brazen vessel was set on the backs of twelve brazen oxen; three of them facing each cardinal point, and all of them facing outward; see illustration, p. 358.

The humiliation of Ahaz before Tiglath-pileser III. and his desecration of the Temple and all sacred things led him to take this sea down from its position on the oxen, and to set it upon a pavement of stone (II Kings xvi. 17). It was finally (II Kings xxv. 13) broken into pieces at the capture of Jerusalem by the Chaldeans, and the material was carried to Babylon.
Bibliography:
  • Nowack, Lehrbuch der Hebräischen Archäologie, 1894, ii. 42;
  • Benzinger, Arch. 1894, p. 252.
BRAZEN SEA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 
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Rescued One

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Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses. Animal sacrifice is no longer necessary. However temple ordinances still need to be performed and will continue to be performed although Satan would stop them if he could. You are correct, the laver was not for baptizing, the molten sea was.

The temple was built for sacrifice, not Masonic-like rituals and strange underwear.

Matthew 27
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;
and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
 
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He is the way

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No, it was for the priests to wash their hands and feet in.

Exo 30:17 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 30:18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
Exo 30:19 For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:
Exo 30:20 When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:
2Ch 4:6 He made also ten lavers, and put five on the right hand, and five on the left, to wash in them: such things as they offered for the burnt offering they washed in them; but the sea was for the priests to wash in.
Yes otherwise known as baptism:

(New Testament | Titus 3:5)

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
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He is the way

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The temple was built for sacrifice, not Masonic-like rituals and strange underwear.

Matthew 27
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;
and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
(Old Testament | Exodus 29:4 - 9)

4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
5 And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:
6 And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.
7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.
8 And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.
9 And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.
 
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mmksparbud

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(Old Testament | Exodus 29:4 - 9)

4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
5 And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:
6 And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.
7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.
8 And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.
9 And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.

Baptism is not washing! Baptism is done once. Washing is done on a regular basis. They are not interchangeable.
Mary was not baptizing Jesus with her tears, she was washing His feet. Jesus did not baptizing the disciples at the last supper, He washed their feet.
 
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Rescued One

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(Old Testament | Exodus 29:4 - 9)

4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
5 And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:
6 And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.
7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.
8 And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.
9 And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.

No embroidered underwear.

The priestly sash or girdle (Hebrew אַבְנֵט avnet) was part of the ritual garments worn by the Jewish and priests of ancient Israel whenever they served in the Tabernacle or the Temple in Jerusalem.

The "sash" or "girdle" worn by the High Priest was of fine linen with "embroidered work" in blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28:39, 39:29); those worn by the priests were of white, twined linen. The sash should not be confused with the embroidered belt of the ephod. Like the other priestly vestments, the purpose of the sash was "for glory and for beauty" (Exodus 28:41). On the Day of Atonement the High Priest changed into special linen garments that included a sash of fine linen without any embroidery (Leviticus 16:4). These linen garments were worn only once, with new ones being made each year.
Priestly sash - Wikipedia

And these were not worn by women.
 
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Ironhold

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So---while back in heaven they can be taught what they need to know----seems totally unnessary then to come down here at all if thery can be taught there.

As we've explained several times over, what happens is that everyone has to come here to experience time in the flesh.

Once that's done, the person is taught what they missed.
 
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He is the way

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Baptism is not washing! Baptism is done once. Washing is done on a regular basis. They are not interchangeable.
Mary was not baptizing Jesus with her tears, she was washing His feet. Jesus did not baptizing the disciples at the last supper, He washed their feet.
This post was not about baptism, it was about the coat, and the robe of the ephod. However the washing of regeneration is about baptism.
 
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He is the way

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No embroidered underwear.

The priestly sash or girdle (Hebrew אַבְנֵט avnet) was part of the ritual garments worn by the Jewish and priests of ancient Israel whenever they served in the Tabernacle or the Temple in Jerusalem.

The "sash" or "girdle" worn by the High Priest was of fine linen with "embroidered work" in blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28:39, 39:29); those worn by the priests were of white, twined linen. The sash should not be confused with the embroidered belt of the ephod. Like the other priestly vestments, the purpose of the sash was "for glory and for beauty" (Exodus 28:41). On the Day of Atonement the High Priest changed into special linen garments that included a sash of fine linen without any embroidery (Leviticus 16:4). These linen garments were worn only once, with new ones being made each year.
Priestly sash - Wikipedia

And these were not worn by women.
You said: "The temple was built for sacrifice, not Masonic-like rituals and strange underwear." Wikipedia is not an absolute source of information. However it is well known that holy garments were indeed worn by Aaron and his sons.
 
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Rescued One

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You said: "The temple was built for sacrifice, not Masonic-like rituals and strange underwear." Wikipedia is not an absolute source of information. However it is well known that holy garments were indeed worn by Aaron and his sons.

The garments were described. They were not underwear.

Other links for those who want to find fault:
Priestly Garments - The Israel Bible

https://www.bible-history.com/tabernacle/TAB4untitled00000206.htm

The Meaning of Aaron's Holy Garments

In my library:
V. Gilbert Beers, Th.D., Ph.D., The Book of Life, Vol. 4, God's Tabernacle
 
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mmksparbud

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No embroidered underwear.

The priestly sash or girdle (Hebrew אַבְנֵט avnet) was part of the ritual garments worn by the Jewish and priests of ancient Israel whenever they served in the Tabernacle or the Temple in Jerusalem.

The "sash" or "girdle" worn by the High Priest was of fine linen with "embroidered work" in blue, purple and scarlet (Exodus 28:39, 39:29); those worn by the priests were of white, twined linen. The sash should not be confused with the embroidered belt of the ephod. Like the other priestly vestments, the purpose of the sash was "for glory and for beauty" (Exodus 28:41). On the Day of Atonement the High Priest changed into special linen garments that included a sash of fine linen without any embroidery (Leviticus 16:4). These linen garments were worn only once, with new ones being made each year.
Priestly sash - Wikipedia

And these were not worn by women.

There was a purpose.
Exo_20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
Exo_28:42 And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:
 
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mmksparbud

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As we've explained several times over, what happens is that everyone has to come here to experience time in the flesh.

Once that's done, the person is taught what they missed.

Yah---I forget. But if they can be taught up be then they don't need to come here to suffer. I certainly wouldn't'! Do they have a choice or is this forced on the poor things?
 
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mmksparbud

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This post was not about baptism, it was about the coat, and the robe of the ephod. However the washing of regeneration is about baptism.

The washing of the priests had nothing to do with baptism. They had to be clean before entering the temple. Again, foot washing is not the same as baptism--do you not have foot washi8ng at your temple? We do it when we have the Lord's supper. Which certainly isn't every day. It is an ordinance of humbleness. Baptism is a total immersion. The sprinkling thing only came about with Catholicism.
 
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