If satan is bound in this present age---

ewq1938 said:

That makes Satan's imprisonment not only a failure, but is completely meaningless. It only has meaning and purpose if he is completely unable to deceive outside of his prison. So, there won't be evil angels or demons or spirits running around causing havoc in the thousand year rod of iron rule. Christ and his immortal saints will be in full control of those things as well as the people they are caring for ie: the nations the rule.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

"Rule"
G4165
p??µa?´??
poimaino¯
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.

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Yes.....................shepherding......

<4165> 11 Times in NT Reve 2:27, 7:17, 12:5, 19:15

Matt 2:6
And thou Bethlehem, land of Judah, not being inferior-most are in the ones-leading of Judea. For out of thee shall be going-forth one-leading, who-any shall be shepherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) the People of Me, the Israel.

1Peter 5:4
And of being made manifest the Chief-Shepherd/arci-poimenoV <750>, ye shall be being requitted the unfading crown of the glory

Reve 2:27
And He shall be sherpherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) them in rod iron, as the instruments, the pottery, is being crushed, as and-I have gotten beside the Father of Me.

Reve 7:17
That the Lambkin th in midst of the throne shall be shepherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) them and shall be way leading them upon life springs of waters and shall be out-rubbing the God every tear out of the eyes of them.

Reve 12:5
And she brought forth a Son, a male, who is about to be Shepherding/poimainein <4165> (5721) all the Nations in rod/staff, iron. And is caught-away the child of her toward the God, and toward the throne of Him.

Reve 19:15
And out of the mouth of Him is issuing-out a sword, sharp, that in her He should be smiting the Nations, and He shall be shepherding/poimanei <4165> (5692) them in rod iron and He is treading the trough of the wine of the fury of the God, the Almighty.



.

DavidPT said:

Let's not forget though. satan isn't bound forever. He's only bound for a thousand years and then is loosed a little season. It doesn't matter whether the thousand years are literal or not, so not wanting to get in a debate about that in particular, because whether they are literal years or not, when they end satan is then loosed for a little season. What I'm getting at, what you submitted above appears to be your explanation of what it means while satan is bound. But what does it mean when he is loosed then?

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Well, I was answering your specific question about the nature of “nations being deceived while satan is bound”.
Before we move on to his short time loosing, would you care to address my answer? Or does your lack of an answer mean you acquiesce my point about the meaning of “nations deceived”?

DavidPT said:

I agree that's how he has to operate in general, because like you pointed out, he can't physically be in more than one place at a time. But even so, binding satan would be pointless if he were to still be able to go about business as usual, but from the pit in this case. How would that be any different than the way he already operates, that being through his demonic forces, as you already pointed out? IMO there has to be a difference between a bound satan and a loose satan. If a bound satan can still do all of these things he could do when not bound, what is the point of even binding him then?

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Are you suggesting that if he were truly bound, even the unrepentant would be able to share in Christ’s victory over him?

ilovejcsog said:

I wonder how he could be bound when he is so active?

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Somebody forgot to tell him?

Michael Collum said:

The nations currently are deceived and run by liars: Therefore, satan is not chained in this present age.

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So, again as I asked above, does this mean when Satan is truly bound, even the unrepentant will be victorious over him?

What scripture teaches that unrepentant Christ Rejectors EVER enjoy a life of victory over Satan?

mmksparbud said:

Somebody forgot to tell him?

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Forgot to tell him what?
I can just Imagine what Jesus would “tell him”:

“Hey Lucifer, you're bound right now, which means unrepentant people who reject Me get a FULL share in My victory over you anyway, so you are ordered to stop influencing them right now!’”

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

When Satan is loosed---he gathers his followers from all over the earth and goes against the city of God that is coming down from heaven that have God's people in it---and fire comes down from God and devours them.

During the 1000 years Satan is bound--and the saved are with Jesus in heaven. Isa_28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

When Jesus comes, he brings all of heaven with Him, the saved dead are raised, the saved living are caught up together in the air up to Jesus. The living wicked are consumed with the brightness of His coming, the dead wicked remain dead.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All the saved are with Jesus for a 1000 years---all the wicked are dead and do no live until after the 1000 years. The earth has been destroyed with His coming by fervent heat.
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

This is where Satan is bound---to an empty, destroyed, desolate earth with no one to deceive or tempt for 1000 years. Then He is set free for the wicked are resurrected and he goes out to gather them together to try and take the city. Aftern they are devpoured by the fire from God, Satan and all his angels and death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire--after which the whole earth is made new--
And the Holy City is brought down.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

ewq1938 said:

NJ doesn't descend until after fire comes down from God.

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That's what I said. Old Jerusalem was totally destroyed with the 2nd coming--the whole earth is destroyed with fervent heat at His coming.
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

ewq1938 said:

Again, the passage does not speak of Nj coming down from heaven when God sends down the fire nor is the city mentioned NJ either. That stays in heaven until after judgment day.

Old Jerusalem is also not destroyed at the second coming. The verses you posted speak of what happens during the transition between this age and the new heaven and new earth age...but not the literal 24 hour day Christ returns.

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The whole heavens and the whole earth are destroyed by fire at His presence---except for the old city of Jerusalem, which has no one in it for all the saved are with Him in heaven and all the wicked are dead??! And Satan and his followers are attacking an empty city. If that is how you see it--Ok. I can't.

ewq1938 said:

It's not empty. Christ and his immortal saints are there. If "The whole heavens and the whole earth are destroyed by fire at His presence" was true Satan would not find anyone to join his army because no one would be alive on the Earth. So, "The whole heavens and the whole earth are destroyed by fire at His presence" isn't true, it's a misunderstanding of what Peter wrote. Christ and his saints are not in heaven they are on the Earth for the thousand years, and forever and they are there at the city when Satan's army arrives and then the fire of God comes down and new Jerusalem is not descending at that time as you earlier claimed.

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The wicked dead are resurrected to face their fate. Jesus does not touch this earth at His 2nd coming---we go to meet Him in the air. Jesus doesn't touch this earth until it is remade---it is polluted---He cleanses it at His coming and it lays desolate and empty of everything and everyone for those 1000 years.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

ewq1938 said:

Sure but he is traveling down to the Earth. "we" meet him because "we" were scattered all over the Earth so the rapture is to get all of "us" to one place in the clouds and follow Christ down to where he is going. No one goes to heaven at the rapture.


Rev 19-20 shows this to be incorrect. The NHNE doesn't occur until Rev 22, over a thousand years after the second coming...only then will everything is remade as you put it.

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We don't have to go up into the air to meet Him in the clouds to be gathered together. We all go up, then we all come down?--Not Needed. We all go up and we are with Jesus in the heavenly city. Then we and the city come down after the earth is remade. All the wicked are destroyed at His 2nd coming. Don't see how you can read anything else into that. There is nothing here. No Old Jerusalem, nothing but a destroyed earth and Satan and his angels stuck here--this is their bottomless pit--their abys. And the earth has a 1000 year Sabbath. Which goes with all that the bible talks about the weekly Sabbath, then there was the Land Sabbath where the Jews were to work the land for 6 years and then let the rest for the 7th year.
Lev 25:3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
Lev 25:4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
Lev 25:5 That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.

6,000 years this world will continue---then 1000 years it will have it's rest. At the rate we are destroying it--it needs a 1000 years rest! Jesus will not set foot on this sin ridden planet until He remakes it.

ewq1938 said:

That's how it's given in scripture though.



It is needed.




That isn't found in scripture.




Nope. Many are, others are ruled over by Christ and his saints.



Also not biblical. He will be here over a thousand years before the NHNE according to the bible.

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You are not providing scripture for your position. I have provided scripture for mine. Where does it say, after we go up into the air that we come back down?
Rule over what?
Where does it say the wicked are alive after His coming?

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
2Th_2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his comin

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Blade said:

"like many assume" no clue who MANY are...nope hes out there "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" After Jesus comes set foots..does somethings.. then bound about 1k and set free for a little while.. little while? Yeah Jesus said "I come QUICK!" lol.. little while could be a LONG time

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The time is always nigh and when He comes everything will be done in swiftness.

The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70ad took only 5 month to turn it into rubble, what took 46yrs to build..........

Jhn 2:20
Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this Santuary/Temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”

"THE TIME IS NIGH AT HAND" AND "COMING IN SWIFTNESS" REVELATION PROPHECY

Revelation 1:1
A revealing of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the GOD, to show to the bondservants of Him,
which things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
That the Time/Season<2540> is nigh<1451>.

Revelation 22:6
And said to me: "These the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy Prophets commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-servents of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming In/en <1722> Swiftness/tacei <5034>.

Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
That the Time/Season is nigh<1451>

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be ?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<4931-5055> of the Age?

Luke 21:
20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being compassed by armies,
then be ye knowing that nigh<1448> the desolating of Her.
31 - So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh<1451>

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>
be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

James 5:8
be patient! and stand-fast! the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord is nigh<1448>

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth," and the subject of a thousand prophecies, deprived of' the staff of life, wrapt in flames, and bleeding on every side sunk into utter ruin and desolation. This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
=======================================
Matthew 24
19 And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
22 And if those days were not shortened<2856> no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened<2856>

Revelation 9:5
And was given to them that not they should be killing them, but that they should be being tormented five months
And the torment of them as torment of a scorpion/skorpiou <4651>, whenever it should be striking a man; [famine?]

Anybody?.....

Who here believes that If Satan were truly bound in this age, even the unrepentant Christ rejectors would be enjoying a full share of Christ's Victory over him?

Isn't that the argument being presented here as to why we should know he is not presently bound?
That unrepentant Christ rejectors currently have no power over him, therefore he must not be bound?

What scripture teaches the unrepentant rejectors of Jesus Christ EVER get to enjoy a life of Victory over Satan, regardless of whether or not he is presently roaming, bound or in the lake of fire?

It's a wonder Satan can function at all with all those certain Christians in all those certain churches binding him all the time.

I grew up in those churches. Heard it so many times in my life.