Marriage issues in a happy marriage

If you are saying awful things to one another in anger and throwing your rings away, then you need to go to counseling. For no other reason other than to learn to fight fairly in a marriage. It's ridiculous to assume happy couples never ever fight, people are human, but you can learn to fight in a way that won't harm your spouse with words and actions you can't take back. Issues exist in all marriages and it helps to talk them out fairly and respectfully to keep it becoming a screaming match or things that lead to resentment. When my husband and I went for pre-marital counseling, our pastor said he tells all couples to go to counseling every 8 to 10 years or so (or sooner if needed), even if you think your marriage is happy and outstanding. It helps to get things out in the open and keep small things you have swept under the rug from becoming huge mountains that you trip over. Small issues can become big issues and manifest in everyday words and actions.

I'm very sorry that you are in this place. As you are discovering, fighting kills marriages.

There is a way to resolve conflicts without fighting. My husband and I use this process and whenever we have a difference of desire (conflict), we are able to resolve the issue in a mutually enthusiastic way. Afterwards, our feelings of love towards each other are strengthened and we stay just totally in love with each other.

Please read these links and let me know what you think:
The Giver & Taker (Marriage Builders®, Inc.)
The Policy of Joint Agreement (Marriage Builders®, Inc.)

If you follow these methods, like we do, you can restore calm and caring into your relationship.

Leigh88 said:

I will read these, thank you!

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You are so welcome! Please let me know if any questions. My husband and I never have to fight because we know that we will not be forced to sacrifice to give the other person their way. This removes the emotional baggage with presenting what we want because we feel confident the other person will join in brainstorming to find a solution we're mutually enthusiastic about. We don't have to worry about the outcome ahead of time because we know that whatever the outcome ultimately is, both of us will be enthusiastic about it.

If a mutually enthusiastic outcome is not immediately discoverable, we do nothing. No one gets their way. But, we keep coming back to the issue periodically with new ideas or brainstorming. Eventually if we start becoming uncomfortable by doing nothing, solutions start to become more viable to us, even if only incrementally solving our situation, because we are starting to become mutually enthusiastic about doing something to get out of the situation than staying stuck on nothing.

For example, if you want chicken for supper and he wants beef, you have nothing for supper. When you get hungry enough you might be mutually enthusiastic about starting out with a garden salad at least. As your hunger evolves, your enthusiasm for the leftover casserole in the freezer might become quite mutual. Neither is left with resentment because nothing happened until you were both mutually enthusiastic about it happening. Just a silly example but I wanted to illustrate the mechanics of how it works.

Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs
Book by Emerson Eggerichs

• Look inside

Goodreads 4.2/5
Amazon 4.6/5
Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs was written in 2004 by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs. The book suggests a direct connection between the emotional needs of men and women and a verse of scripture found in the Bible, that when adhered to, can strengthen and transform relationships.

Jesus is definitely the answer.
this book may help you on your journey to becoming truly one in Him.

be blessed

by the way all married couples fight and we all have some big ones.

Gods not mad said:

by the way all married couples fight and we all have some big ones.

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This is not true. Married couples can resolve their conflicts without fighting. There is no reason to fight. Fighting kills love.

Endeavourer said:

This is not true. Married couples can resolve their conflicts without fighting. There is no reason to fight. Fighting kills love.

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whats not true, that married couples fight. have you ever had a fight with your spouse. ever. i didnt say couples have intense fights day in and day out at the highest levels. that would be very unhealthy. i said married couples fight. a fight/argument can be nothing more than an disagreement on where to eat. it may be more intense due to lack of sleep or stress. during the course of a marriage there will inevitably be some big ones. have you and your spouse ever had a big one? they are rare but do happen. we have. if i didnt think married couples could resolve conflict without fighting i would not have suggested the book obviously. as to the statement fighting kills love yes if left unchecked that is true but conflict does strengthen a marriage because it causes the two to work it out and find a neutral ground. any marriage where there is no conflict whatsoever is suspicious to me it means one of the two is a push over and the other one is overbearing. coming together and being made one is a process that takes work and there will be conflict and yes even fighting. this couple has to now work this out and believe they can. would you not agree that after that is accomplished their marriage will be stronger. i think it will be. just living in reality over here.

bless you leigh88
God is good He is in your marriages corner. He is not a covenant breaker but your greatest advocate. God is the God who restores. i think this book would help you and be a good starting place for you both.

Gods not mad said:

any marriage where there is no conflict whatsoever is suspicious to me it means one of the two is a push over and the other one is overbearing.

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This is not the case with the methods provided in the links I gave to Leigh. Please feel free to check them out yourself. Every marriage has conflict (where the spouses do not see eye to eye on something). Conflicts don't have to result in fights; conflicts can be resolved with mutual, enthusiastic agreement. Neither my husband or I is a pushover at all. We're both strong people who found each other when we were close to 50. We were both quite set in our ways, and did not have similar living styles at all. Yet we have integrated and blended families without a single fight between us.

We both ALWAYS get our way because if one way or the other doesn't work for both of us, we negotiate until we find something we're both enthusiastic about. No decision is made until we're both enthusiastic about the decision. There is no need to fight if you know in advance that no solution will be forced on you; that regardless of the outcome you will be enthusiastic about the decision.

Gods not mad said:

just living in reality over here.

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Reality does not need to include fighting. I encourage you to explore other ways to resolve conflicts than fighting. When one person's taker imposes on the other's giver it just sets the couple up for the next fight. It's a terrible way to resolve conflict:
The Giver & Taker (Marriage Builders®, Inc.)

Gods not mad said:

Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs
Book by Emerson Eggerichs

• Look inside

Goodreads 4.2/5
Amazon 4.6/5
Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires; The Respect He Desperately Needs was written in 2004 by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs. The book suggests a direct connection between the emotional needs of men and women and a verse of scripture found in the Bible, that when adhered to, can strengthen and transform relationships.

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So the problem I have with this book is that men need love from their wives just as much as wives need it from their husband. Also, as a woman, I need respect from my husband as much as he needs it from me.

Anything short of equal mutual respect unbalances the relationship. Anything short of equal mutual love does as well.

I'm aware of three couples close to me who tried to apply this book to their marriage and bought into Eggerichs' supposed revelations and it caused a lot of conflict in the marriage. When the wife wasn't subserviently and quickly responding to the husband's requests he would say "I didn't feel respected just now." One of those three couples (who led a small group study of this book in their church) is divorced. The book has encouraged the husband of the second couple to demand 'respect' to the point of abusive treatment of his wife, which has now continued for years. And the wife in the third marriage bailed on the methods because she felt controlled under them and it caused her a lot of pain when her husband, being indoctrinated by this book, kept insisting on her obedience. So that's my experience with seeing the application of this book.

I've also studied it out extensively for myself and find that it twists Scripture out of context and does not apply the full counsel of Scripture. To my experience, and per my studies, I would not try to model anything from this book.

http://www.hopeforlifeonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/LR_BiblicalOrDeceptive.pdf

we read love and respect about 10 years ago and it made sense to us at the time. after taking your prompting to reinvestigate the scriptural soundness of this book i am in agreement with you it is garbage and should not be used. i should not have suggested it. im called to love my wife as Christ loves his church and that is one of service and love to show her grace no matter what yes no matter what. this is my responsibility in being the priest of the home. take no offense to this statement but a woman can not fully understand the position that is placed in a man as the spiritual head of the home. i did not say spiritual dictator of the home we are to love as Christ. i will look over the rest of your remarks tonight. wisdom is key proverbs 3:13

Hey Leigh. My son and his wife are going thru the same thing and my heart goes out to you. Fertility issues cause great strain on a marriage. Like others have said, seek Christian counseling. If your hubby doesn't want to go, go by yourself and when he sees a change in you, he will join in. God bless you.

Gods not mad said:

http://www.hopeforlifeonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/LR_BiblicalOrDeceptive.pdf

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OK, I'm very impressed with your ability to reconsider your points. Not all people can (will) do this. Thanks for this link. It's a great study that tests the message of the book to see if it is actually using Scripture faithfully.

Gods not mad said:

this is my responsibility in being the priest of the home. take no offense to this statement but a woman can not fully understand the position that is placed in a man as the spiritual head of the home. i did not say spiritual dictator of the home we are to love as Christ.

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I would challenge you to re-examine this as well. As a woman in a marriage for 24 years with an abusive (ex)husband, this concept captivated me in a way I came to realize did not weigh the full counsel of Scripture. I stuck to this idea until my health failed from the impossibility and stress of it.

Also, due to his unfruitful behaviors, I had to step up into the role as the spiritual head of my home and children: their spiritual training and upbringing was all left to me. So to say a woman cannot understand the spiritual responsibility of taking the lead in ministering in the home is incorrect.

In my marriage and as a witness to my children, I tried to return good for evil; I tried to bear witness through my loving behavior. The impossibility of laboring indefinitely under this Pharisaical paradigm almost put me in the grave. My experience has caused me to challenge all of the filters (burdens) I've carried on this topic and I feel I've come to a better understanding of the full counsel of Scripture on this matter.

My understanding expanded with a filter-less study of 1 Cor 11:3. Word for word, what does the Scripture say? Are we imputing frameworks into it that are not there in the original? The Bible version you study will have a lot to do with your answer. For example, the ESV committee is so committed to the concept of headship (a word that is not in the Bible) that they developed a new doctrine on the Trinity in order to prove their idea of headship. This also affects the words they used in 1 Cor 11:3. The Greek text does not specify that "man" in that verse be interpreted as "husband".

Examine works that are both critical of your viewpoint and supportive of your viewpoint so you can have a fresh perspective as to what are cultural assumptions on your part vs what Scripture is actually saying. Philip Payne's "Man and Woman, One in Christ" is a work that would disagree with your interpretation and would be an excellent resource for understanding the other side.

Endeavourer said:

This is not the case with the methods provided in the links I gave to Leigh. Please feel free to check them out yourself.

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i have read through them several times. my opinion on it is that it may work for some but honestly i don't see where God comes in. the articles you posted basically sets up a list of rules and guidelines one must follow. this takes away from the uniqueness of the individual and who they are quirks and all and suggests hypocrisy within the marriage. i agree with statement "The Policy of Joint Agreement encourages couples to consider each other's happiness as equally important. They are a team and both should try to help each other and avoid hurting each other." but do not agree with the statement "What happens when the Policy of Joint Agreement is not followed in marriage? Disaster! And the disaster is seen in many forms. One of its most common forms is a Love Buster I have already introduced to you, annoying behavior. To refresh your memory, an annoying behavior is any habit or activity that one spouse does that bothers the other spouse." this is a statement of control. i understand the examples given in the article are serious, drugs alcohol ect... but the quote says any habit or activity wow. to not allow your spouse to be who they are and walk with them through their own growth and struggles is doing nothing but placing the law over their heads and denying them the grace they so desperately need to grow.

you said conflicts don't have to result in fights. i agree i'm not sure what you think i'm trying to say here. fighting is not good and the best resolution is one based in mutual love and understanding of where the other is and to show grace as the(priest of the home.) my point is that couples do have fights/arguments. i know you don't but i also believe you have a system that has placed a lot of guidelines and rules to be followed and that is not healthy either. in my opinion when men sets up rules or guidelines for others to follow so they can control the situation even if both parties are in agreement it leaves out or blocks the passion Jesus has to get in there and do the work of truly restoring and healing the person. the person would have no need to be healed of any root issue because they are enthusiastically agreeing.

Endeavourer said:

Reality does not need to include fighting. I encourage you to explore other ways to resolve conflicts than fighting.

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stop it with the self righteousness its a bit much. the below quote is all i simply said.

Gods not mad said:

whats not true, that married couples fight. have you ever had a fight with your spouse. ever. i didnt say couples have intense fights day in and day out at the highest levels. that would be very unhealthy. i said married couples fight. a fight/argument can be nothing more than an disagreement on where to eat.

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Endeavourer said:

So the problem I have with this book is that men need love from their wives just as much as wives need it from their husband. Also, as a woman, I need respect from my husband as much as he needs it from me.

Anything short of equal mutual respect unbalances the relationship. Anything short of equal mutual love does as well.

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i agree i didn't say anything to the contrary but i think you have to admit that men and women are wired differently. right? there is a reason a women is a better nurturer than a man but a man can still nurturer. there is a reason a man can get more easily off set if he is not respected by his peers but a women still desires respect. God obviously made us different with different core desires. most women want a man who can provide and protect (king of the home). i've never in my life met a man who is looking for this in a women. so if the man desires to protect his wife from something that may be harmful to her (prophet of the home) and she is not ready to enthusiastically agree should he just wait until she is ready. no grace and mercy should be applied (priest of the home) in helping her see the trouble that may lay ahead. your suggestion generally put was wait until she is hungry then we can agree. as far as the book goes i agreed with you that some scripture was taken out of context and therefore should have not been suggested that was the extent.

Endeavourer said:

When the wife wasn't subserviently and quickly responding to the husband's requests he would say "I didn't feel respected just now.

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sounds like a jerk.

Endeavourer said:

The book has encouraged the husband of the second couple to demand 'respect' to the point of abusive treatment of his wife, which has now continued for years.

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hopefully you have reported this to the authorities or at least helped her get out of the relationship.

Endeavourer said:

And the wife in the third marriage bailed on the methods because she felt controlled under them and it caused her a lot of pain when her husband, being indoctrinated by this book, kept insisting on her obedience.

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sounds pretty dysfunctional.

Endeavourer said:

I would challenge you to re-examine this as well. As a woman in a marriage for 24 years with an abusive (ex)husband, this concept captivated me in a way I came to realize did not weigh the full counsel of Scripture. I stuck to this idea until my health failed from the impossibility and stress of it.

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i'm very sorry to hear this what a horrible thing you went through i mean that. i think this is why you have adopted a system of rules and guidelines though you have a fear of this happening again so control is a comfortable position for you to be in. i think you have a hard time letting go of what was done to you by your former husband and truly want a good marriage. i truly think their needs to be healing that only Gods grace can bring. He cant though because you have established a set of rules and guidelines over yourself to hide the pain. you seem bitter and i can tell you don't seem to like men very much. when we set up any form of law in our lives it can give us a false sense of satisfaction that we have accomplished or beaten back pain, sin ect.... but all we are doing is being hypocrites with the Lord.

Endeavourer said:

Also, due to his unfruitful behaviors, I had to step up into the role as the spiritual head of my home and children: their spiritual training and upbringing was all left to me. So to say a woman cannot understand the spiritual responsibility of taking the lead in ministering in the home is incorrect.

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i said a women can not FULLY understand the position that is placed in a man as the spiritual head of the home. women are fantastic leaders some of the best but a women is not called by God to be the spiritual head of the home men are. what happened in your case is God gave you grace to do the job and i'm sure you did well. good job!

Endeavourer said:

My understanding expanded with a filter-less study of 1 Cor 11:3. Word for word, what does the Scripture say?

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paul is simply talking about ordinances within christianity. Christ is the head of all men women came from man God is the head of Christ. not sure where the issue is.

ephesians 5:22-23 the husband is suppose to treat his wife just as the Lord treats us with grace and mercy. when one has a wrong outlook on who Jesus is and believes one must perform to be accepted by God yes she will take issue with this scripture. the truth is if a women has a good outlook on who Jesus is she will love this scripture.

leigh88

i'm sorry this tread became about something other than what you and your husband are going through i did not intend for that to happen. hopefully though you were able to gleam something that may be of help through all the back and forth. Gods grace heals all and restores all. that is His nature. humble yourself before the Lord and become broken before him put all your trust in Him to do this work and add nothing of yourself. God is the master of restoring. the master. remember there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. you have to make a mistake for there to be a possibility of condemnation to exist right? so what He is saying is that even when you mess up i love you the same as i always have. He paid the price and He paid it in full. let Him do this work He is the master. when i rest Jesus works. when i work Jesus rests.

bless you both.

Leigh, welcome to CF

agree with getting some counselling as someone suggested
to help deal with what you're both going through which is stressful

blessings to you and your husband

Hi Gods not mad. I appreciate your thorough consideration of the points I brought forth and your genuine open minded consideration of them. I will respond to a few points where we differ that are relevant to the OP's needs to resolve her marital problems.

Gods not mad said:

do not agree with the statement "What happens when the Policy of Joint Agreement is not followed in marriage? Disaster! And the disaster is seen in many forms. One of its most common forms is a Love Buster I have already introduced to you, annoying behavior. To refresh your memory, an annoying behavior is any habit or activity that one spouse does that bothers the other spouse."

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Gods not mad said:

this is a statement of control....... but the quote says any habit or activity wow. to not allow your spouse to be who they are and walk with them through their own growth and struggles is doing nothing but placing the law over their heads and denying them the grace they so desperately need to grow.

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If a spouse has a habit that annoys the other spouse to the point that withdrawals are made from the other's love bank when it occurs, then NOT changing the habit is also a form of control of the other spouse. NOT changing the habit is forcing the other spouse to live with something they don't want to live with.

The sentiment of "I am who I am so you just have to live with it" justifies annoying the other person with a selfish demand. In answer to your concern about Scripture references for the Point of Joint Agreement, the verse foremost in my mind is "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." (Phil 2:3)

Gods not mad said:

my point is that couples do have fights/arguments. i know you don't but i also believe you have a system that has placed a lot of guidelines and rules to be followed and that is not healthy either.

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The guidelines are actually a joy for both parties because they can both be confident they won't be the loser of a fight and coerced into sacrificing/giving in a way they don't desire to. As far as the health of the marriage - what better health to offer a marriage than eliminating fighting by win-win conflict resolution?

Gods not mad said:

blocks the passion Jesus has to get in there and do the work of truly restoring and healing the person. the person would have no need to be healed of any root issue because they are enthusiastically agreeing.

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Isn't it a good thing if a root issue is avoided so a believer can apply their spiritual energy to a more worthy effort than dealing with/healing a root issue? And better yet, not having that root issue does not put your spouse through the suffering of the painful ways the root issue manifests itself in the relationship.

Gods not mad said:

i think this is why you have adopted a system of rules and guidelines though you have a fear of this happening again so control is a comfortable position for you to be in. i think you have a hard time letting go of what was done to you by your former husband and truly want a good marriage.

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I just asked my husband if he felt controlled by me or by our methods and he laughed at me.

To illustrate: shortly after we were married he changed his mind about something we had agreed upon before our marriage that was foundational to my agreeing to the marriage. To say I was disappointed was an understatement. Yet, due to the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA), I couldn't force him to keep his agreement (that would be controlling). An agreement is only good as long as both parties are enthusiastic. If one party loses his/her enthusiasm them a new solution must be negotiated. So, per POJA, I can't demand he give me the old way (which he stopped doing immediately) and I can't be disrespectful about the new way he wants (which was to do nothing instead of what he agreed to do), but he is obligated to not leave me stranded and work through brainstorming (with good will) for a new solution.

It took us almost a year to come to enthusiastic agreement but in the meantime we had zero fights, demands or disrespect about it: I knew he loved me more than his own life and that he cared to find a solution that worked for me, too. We discussed and negotiated about it approximately 1-2 hours per month, most months. Ultimately we realized that if he changed his behavior about how he did nothing, then his doing nothing would not be hurtful to me. So he happily did that. He has mentioned several times how much he appreciated that I don't feel entitled to be controlling and that I give him such liberty in our marriage. The same is true of his behavior towards me.

Gods not mad said:

you seem bitter and i can tell you don't seem to like men very much.

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This would be news to my husband, my ex-husband, my sons and any of my male colleagues. Not one person in my life has ever accused me of that. Because I'm a woman, the pronouns I used about my experience described a male abuser. However, in my husband's case, his ex-wife was controlling of him while all the yet accusing HIM of being controlling (by not always conceding to her way). So if I told his story perhaps you would say I don't like women very much.

For the purposes of the OP's thread, I won't address the gender discussion in detail here, but I would again encourage you to read an alternate viewpoint. I initially subscribed to a similar viewpoint as you outlined, but had to reexamine them when they were destroying my health. In a moment of enlightenment from another portion of Scripture that I feel the Lord caused me to notice when I was in such distress about my situation, I saw a fundamental doctrinal problem with the man being a priest of the home, in the context of the other Scripture. This caused me to embark on a study of almost a year examine the new correlation and re-study out the gender verses. Ultimately I concluded that my initial understanding was wrong and I understood in hindsight why my misunderstanding had caused such pain.

You seem to be a person with an open mind so your comments are very enjoyable.