Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

ICONO'CLAST · Mar 7, 2019

ace of hearts said:
You apply rest to the physical realm and a day. Moving the day doesn't suddenly make it the rest God swore they would never enter. The resat Jesus offers in Mat 11:28-30 isn't a reference to a day. God didn't take a periodic rest in Gen 2. The word translated "rested" means cease as in cease and desist. The Scripture uses the same word about the sabbath.

Read the article

ace of hearts · Mar 7, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hebrews 4 also supports the keeping God's 4th commandment which HEBREWS 4:1-5 define as God's REST lets see why...

Heb 4 isn't about any holy day. It's clearly about rest.

Verse 1 entering into his rest

Verse 3 we have believed do enter into rest

Verse 4 God did rest

Verse 5 shall enter into my rest

Verse 8 if Jesus had given them rest

Verse 9 remaineth therefore a rest

Verse 10 he that is entered into his rest

Verse 11 to enter into that rest

Only one verse uses the word sabbatismos which is a picture word. It's not in any way connoting the sabbath.

ace of hearts · Mar 7, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
Read the article

Why? So I could be convinced of something the Scripture doesn't say.

1stcenturylady · Mar 7, 2019

ace of hearts said:
You apply rest to the physical realm and a day. Moving the day doesn't suddenly make it the rest God swore they would never enter. The resat Jesus offers in Mat 11:28-30 isn't a reference to a day. God didn't take a periodic rest in Gen 2. The word translated "rested" means cease as in cease and desist. The Scripture uses the same word about the sabbath.

Yes, as is known, Jesus was concealed all throughout the Old Testament, not to be revealed until the New. God rested on the Sabbath, not because He was physically tired. He had them physically rest in the Old, pointing toward the spiritual meaning in the New. The spiritual meaning behind God's rest is trusting in Christ who gives us spiritual rest from all our works. How? Through the baptism of the Holy Spirit who makes us free from sin and no longer its slave. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made us free from the law of sin and death. Christ gives us life eternal.

1stcenturylady · Apr 2, 2019

Der Alter said:
He once told me that when he was a young foot patrolman working in the Jewish neighborhoods it was not unusual for Jewish housewives to come down on Friday afternoons after sunset and get the Goy policeman to come up and turn off their stoves because they forgot and they couldn't even turn the stove off.

"nor stranger that is within thy gates." Exodus 20:10

yeshuaslavejeff · Apr 3, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Do you walk to church?
Did you make your bed when you got up?
Turn on any lights?
Do you travel far to church that requires driving your car and buying gas?
Do you eat pre-prepared cold sandwiches and do not use your stove?
Do you do the dishes after meals?

Do you (pl/ same audience) hear His Voice ?

Deuteronomy 1:26-38; Psalm 95:6-11; Hebrews 3 ... - Bible Study Tools
https://www.biblestudytools.com/passage/?q=deuteronomio+1:26...95...
7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, ...

1stcenturylady · Apr 3, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Do you (pl/ same audience) hear His Voice ?

Deuteronomy 1:26-38; Psalm 95:6-11; Hebrews 3 ... - Bible Study Tools
https://www.biblestudytools.com/passage/?q=deuteronomio+1:26...95...
7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, ...

Yes, I hear His voice clearly. You must too if you're asking and know of its importance. And thank you for asking me; it has been life changing. What has been your experience?

Since I was born in 1947 I never had a prayer answered, until 1977 when I truly repented of all sin and acknowledged that I couldn't do anything righteous on my own. That night I heard God's voice for the first time - 8 sentences that seared right through me. I was then surprised by the overwhelming baptism with the Holy Spirit, and received power over my carnal nature, which died that night. I was born again of the Spirit with a new nature. I learned quickly that He would then speak to me WHAT I was to pray, I would pray His words, and it was immediately answered supernaturally. I never pray my own will, but always am listening for His voice and that is the way I've prayed since then. But what to pray is not the only thing He speaks to me. I've heard Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge and Prophecy. The only hearing gift I do not hear is Interpretation of Tongues. But I have been given the first 6 gifts of 1 Cor. 12, and all the sign gifts of Mark 16:16-18.

1stcenturylady · Apr 3, 2019

@yeshuaslavejeff

Hmmmm. Many times when someone lists "Optimistic" it is because they do not like, nor agree that the post was the truth. Which is it for you? Do you hear His voice, or not? Are you one of His sheep?

1stcenturylady · Apr 3, 2019

@yeshuaslavejeff

All you have to do to hear His voice is repent of ALL SIN and truly mean it. God, who knows truth from hypocrisy, will cause you to be born again of His Spirit if you truly repent, and you will then be His sheep and hear His voice as clearly as His other sheep do who are baptized with the Spirit of Christ, then walk in the Spirit. Those who do not have the Spirit of Christ do not belong to Him, nor can they hear His voice.

Acts 2:38-39

guevaraj · Apr 4, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Did you know that every covenant has a 'sign' of the covenant. Like the covenant with Abraham was circumcision.

Sister, I felt that this thread was the closest thing to what we were talking about before. The covenant of circumcision did not disappear, it only took on its true meaning after Jesus, from its previous shadow that pointed to Jesus.

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. (Romans 2:25-29 NIV)

After Jesus, our hearts are circumcised by the Spirit fulfilling the promise of the visible shadow that He replaced.

1stcenturylady said:
Well, the10C was a covenant Exodus 34:28. And the sign of that covenant was placed at its center and it was the Sabbath, Exodus 31:13. We are under a new covenant, with a new 'sign' of our covenant - the cup, 1 Corinthians 11:25. Seeing as we are no longer under the old covenant, we are not under its sign, just as we are no longer under the law of circumcision. When a covenant ends, so does its sign.

Allow me to explain, Jesus did not speak about the end of anything, He only fulfilled and replaced the visible shadows destined to clarify what God promised He would do for us, like the death of so many animals in the earthly temple.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20 NIV)

You are right that it is a “sign”, but you assume wrong about what it means. It is a “sign” between us and God “forever”, therefore, you cannot belong to God and not have this “sign”. You also assumed it can expire, when “forever” means it cannot expire.

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'" (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)

Can you see what it is a sign of? United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Shimshon · Apr 4, 2019

guevaraj said:
Jesus did not speak about the end of anything, He only fulfilled and replaced the visible shadows destined to clarify what God promised He would do for us, like the death of so many animals in the earthly temple.

So he didn't put an end to the instructions regarding the earthly temple? God's promise to scattered the priests and leave not one stone standing doesn't put an end to the requirements for the earthly temple as instructed in Ex/Levi? Jesus still expects full adherence having not ended a thing?

In one breath you state nothing ends at all while saying it's fulfilled and replaced. You really can't have it both ways you know. In order to replace something you have to toss the old one otherwise you're not really replacing anything just modifying the existing. And last I knew the new covenant replaced the old. It's not called the "modified" covenant now is it? Though many falsely believe that it is a renewed covenant, one can not properly observe the Torah given Israel within the nations. Not only was it not able to be functional in the nations as given, it also isn't the spoken instruction given by Jesus . As Hebrews stated there was a change in regards to the Torah because of Jesus. Hebrews 7:12 It states the law has changed. And goes on to use the word "obsolete". Which means to put an end to.

Hebrews 8:13 NIV
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

1stcenturylady · Apr 4, 2019

guevaraj · Apr 4, 2019

Shimshon said:
So he didn't put an end to the instructions regarding the earthly temple? God's promise to scattered the priests and leave not one stone standing doesn't put an end to the requirements for the earthly temple as instructed in Ex/Levi? Jesus still expects full adherence having not ended a thing?

Brother, the earthly temple was replaced by the heavenly temple, where the intercession of Jesus as our high priest in the daily, replaces the need for the death of so many animals, until His soon return.

Shimshon said:
In one breath you state nothing ends at all while saying it's fulfilled and replaced. You really can't have it both ways you know.

Although I have not personally examined all the examples of my general statement, it follows from what is revealed in this verse in the book of Hebrews.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. (Hebrews 13:8 NIV)

Because He never changes, He has not changed anything, He is only taking His true form that could not have come before Jesus with the sacrifice of animals, they were only a shadow of what would come in their place with the daily of Jesus in the heavenly temple.

Shimshon said:
In order to replace something you have to toss the old one otherwise you're not really replacing anything just modifying the existing. And last I knew the new covenant replaced the old. It's not called the "modified" covenant now is it? Though many falsely believe that it is a renewed covenant, one cannot properly observe the Torah given Israel within the nations.

I know for certain that we can observe the Sabbath anywhere on earth, and not just in Israel. Here in the United States, the Sabbath begins 17 hours before our seventh local day of the week, with Israel our example starting the sabbath 12 hours before their seventh local day of the week.

Shimshon said:
Not only was it not able to be functional in the nations as given, it also isn't the spoken instruction given by Jesus. As Hebrews stated there was a change in regards to the Torah because of Jesus. Hebrews 7:12 It states the law has changed. And goes on to use the word "obsolete". Which means to put an end to. Hebrews 8:13 NIV 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The shadows are outdated to their reality in Jesus, replaced by their true fulfillment. With the word fulfillment I do not mean that they are in the past, the reality of the intercession of Jesus in the daily, replaces the killing of so many animals in the present and future until Jesus return.

1stcenturylady · Apr 4, 2019

guevaraj said:
Sister, I felt that this thread was the closest thing to what we were talking about before. The covenant of circumcision did not disappear, it only took on its true meaning after Jesus, from its previous shadow that pointed to Jesus.

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. (Romans 2:25-29 NIV)

After Jesus, our hearts are circumcised by the Spirit fulfilling the promise of the visible shadow that He replaced.

Allow me to explain, Jesus did not speak about the end of anything, He only fulfilled and replaced the visible shadows destined to clarify what God promised He would do for us, like the death of so many animals in the earthly temple.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-20 NIV)

You are right that it is a “sign”, but you assume wrong about what it means. It is a “sign” between us and God “forever”, therefore, you cannot belong to God and not have this “sign”. You also assumed it can expire, when “forever” means it cannot expire.

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'" (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)

Can you see what it is a sign of? United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You are confusing your covenants. Did you not learn every covenant and its 'sign of the covenant' at Andrews? Circumcision was the sign of the covenant with Abraham, 430 years before the covenant of the Ten Commandments (Ex. 34:28) with the children of Israel. That sign never ended from Abraham to Christ, at which time it also was fulfilled when it became of the heart in the New Covenant, and no longer of the flesh. The sign of the Ten Commandments is not circumcision. Try again. Hint, it is the only thing to the children of Israel that is called a sign to the Jews, so you can't miss it. However, when you discover what it is, you will more than likely fight it tooth and nail, but you will just be fighting God as did the Pharisees and stay under the old law, never fully understanding the new. Just so you know, the sign of the New Covenant is based on the blood of Jesus - the Cup of the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 11:25. The New Covenant and sign replaces the old covenant and its sign.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Christ had not died yet. His last words before He died is "It is finished." That was the end of the Old Covenant of the letter of the law, and the birth of His New Covenant of the Spirit. Those who walk in the Spirit are no longer under the shallow letter of the law, but of a more complete law of the heart. Instead of merely not committing murder, now the heart does not even hate. The Ten Commandments were kindergarten compared to graduating to complete righteousness.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Both the SIGN OF THE FLESH of the covenant with Abraham, circumcision, and the SIGN of the Ministry of death, written and engraved on stones ENDED when Christ fulfilled everything of the flesh.

So what sign of the covenant of the Ten Commandments? Did you study and discover it?

guevaraj · Apr 5, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
Did you study and discover it?

Sister, I studied the Sabbath and you simply ignored my finding. This passage triumphs over what any human has said differently, even if it is taught in the most prestigious university.

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'" (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)

You did not even acknowledge the existence of the passage I found, which makes it a separate covenant without expiration, and therefore does not end with the old covenant of the earthly temple replaced by the heavenly temple superior in that Jesus never dies and can always intercede for us forever. The Sabbath is a separate lasting covenant that also lasts “forever”. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

1stcenturylady · Apr 5, 2019

guevaraj said:
Sister, I studied the Sabbath and you simply ignored my finding. This passage triumphs over what any human has said differently, even if it is taught in the most prestigious university.

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'" (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)

You did not even acknowledge the existence of the passage I found, which makes it a separate covenant without expiration, and therefore does not end with the old covenant of the earthly temple replaced by the heavenly temple superior in that Jesus never dies and can always intercede for us forever. The Sabbath is a separate lasting covenant that also lasts “forever”. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You still have a lot to learn about that verse (Ex. 31:13). Christianity is more than keeping the Sabbath day. The New Covenant shows what the Sabbath represented in a spiritual sense which is eternal and everyday, that is why it is "forever," just not in the old tutorial physical sense of one day a week with strict timing and restrictions.

"But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."

"Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

By the way, you told me you were looking for a post of mine where you could answer my question to you if you knew how Jesus treated the issue of SIN in the New Covenant. Did I miss your answer?

guevaraj · Apr 8, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
You still have a lot to learn about that verse

Sister, the Spirit will not override the will. Our strength to resist SIN arises from every word that comes from the mouth of God and not from the Spirit alone.

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. (2 Peter 3:15-17)

Paul said the law is good, he is not eliminating the law, He amplified the law to demand more than before. If it were possible to eliminate the law, Jesus would not have to die. Jesus dies to defend the law, the law remains that, through His death, we can grow again to fulfill the law even more than before. The thunder of God with Jesus is to keep the law and make us new to keep the law again. Even after our fall into sin, God has opened a way for us to return to obey the law through the daily intercession of Jesus as our High Priest “forever”.

1stcenturylady said:
(Ex. 31:13). Christianity is more than keeping the Sabbath day. The New Covenant shows what the Sabbath represented in a spiritual sense which is eternal and everyday, that is why it is "forever," just not in the old tutorial physical sense of one day a week with strict timing and restrictions.

It is “forever” as a witness to a past event in that the Sabbath represents our relationship to our creator who in six days made a home for us on the earth before creating us and rested on the seventh.

“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. (Exodus 31:13 NIV)

The Sabbath reminds us that having the power to create us in the first place, He has the power to make us function like new again. We do not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, His word is our true strength that helps us remain sinless and Satan wants to distance us from His word by deceiving us about its message.

1stcenturylady said:
"But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter." … "Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

“it is written” that Paul’s words are difficult to understand (2 Peter 3:16). Jesus is our example on how to remain sinless, you grow by embracing all His teachings. When tested by Satan to sin against His Father, Jesus responded by citing the will of His Father, expressed in every word that comes from the mouth of God recorded in the scriptures.

The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” (Mathew 4:3-10 NIV)

Tell me, where did Jesus get His strength to resist the temptations? Did it come from the Spirit or from every word that comes from the mouth of God? If Jesus had not known the scriptures, how would the Spirit help Him resist Satan? He does not override a person's free will. The true strength to resist sin arises from every word that comes from the mouth of God, the Spirit cannot help you resist sin without the word of God.

1stcenturylady said:
By the way, you told me you were looking for a post of mine where you could answer my question to you if you knew how Jesus treated the issue of SIN in the New Covenant. Did I miss your answer?

With Jesus in the heavenly temple as our high priest, God internalized the struggle against SIN with a feedback loop faster than before, which can deal with more sin more quickly than was possible externally with the animals in the earthly temple. You are wrong about where the strength to resist SIN comes from, the strength is not in the Spirit but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. It is a sin to forget the holy Sabbath! It is not the Spirit that keeps you from sinning, what guards you from sinning is to keep in your heart every word that comes from the mouth of God, the true source of strength that Jesus showed when dealing with Satan’s temptations.

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10 NIV)

We have been talking about sin from the beginning, but thanks for reminding me of your questions, I will answer them below.

1stcenturylady said:
What about sin?

Sin is lawlessness. (1 John 3:4 NIV)

1stcenturylady said:
What did Jesus do about the problem of sin?

Jesus took upon Himself the punishment of breaking the law and gives us the opportunity to grow in newness to observe the law, the Spirit does in us a work that can be seen by others in your capacity to keep the law, something that is not possible without the help of the Spirit, especially in this world where Satan rains to provide constant social pressure to keep you from the true Sabbath until the soon return of Jesus.

1stcenturylady said:
What about our sin nature?

The inclination to sin is compensated by the Spirit that provides the freedom to choose that we do not have without Him. The Spirit does not force us to be good, it only gives us the freedom to choose to be good, you still have to love it and make the necessary effort to achieve it. However, we are not alone in that effort, with God all things are possible, even keeping the Sabbath is within our reach in a world that will oppose you, to the point of wanting your death for being a constant reminder of their lawlessness. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

---Staff Edit---

ace of hearts · Apr 8, 2019

guevaraj said:
Sister, I studied the Sabbath and you simply ignored my finding. This passage triumphs over what any human has said differently, even if it is taught in the most prestigious university.

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'" (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)

You did not even acknowledge the existence of the passage I found, which makes it a separate covenant without expiration, and therefore does not end with the old covenant of the earthly temple replaced by the heavenly temple superior in that Jesus never dies and can always intercede for us forever. The Sabbath is a separate lasting covenant that also lasts “forever”. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Do you accept Jeremiah a true prophet from God to Israel? What about Hosea?

Since you quote Ex 31:16-17 are you also an Israeli?

ace of hearts · Apr 8, 2019

guevaraj said:
Sister, the Spirit cannot help you if you “distort” the scriptures, He will not override your will. Our strength to resist SIN arises from every word that comes from the mouth of God and not from the Spirit alone. You have been deceived by “the error of the lawless” teachers, you are using something “hard to understand” in Paul’s writings to “distort” Paul’s message and the rest of the scriptures, where more clearly you “distort” the easy-to-understand passage that I found to say the opposite of what it really says: it says do “forever” as it continues to be done in Israel to this day and you have been taught to say not do.

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. (2 Peter 3:15-17)

Paul said the law is good, he is not eliminating the law, you “distort” his message and that of the rest of the scriptures with “the error of the lawless” that have fallen from the secure position of God: not eliminating the law but quite the opposite, He amplified the law to demand more than before. If it were possible to eliminate the law, Jesus would not have to die. Jesus dies to defend the law, the law remains that, through His death, we can grow again to fulfill the law even more than before. You have not understood the thunder of God with Jesus to keep the law and make us new to keep the law again. Even after our fall into sin, God has opened a way for us to return to obey the law through the daily intercession of Jesus as our High Priest “forever”.

It is “forever” as a witness to a past event in that the Sabbath represents our relationship to our creator who in six days made a home for us on the earth before creating us and rested on the seventh. You have been deceived when the “forever” sign between us and God reveals to you that you are a sinner against the covenant of God and, what is worse, you are helping Satan spread his deceptions.

“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. (Exodus 31:13 NIV)

The Sabbath reminds us that having the power to create us in the first place, He has the power to make us function like new again. You distort the scriptures as we were warned could happen with Paul’s writings (2 Peter 3:16) to keep from seeing the sign between us and God, a sign that Satan wants erased from our minds to keep us deceived to remain far from God even when by the help of the Spirit we desire to be close but our blinded by Satan’s deceptions from seeing in His word how to get closer. We do not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, His word is our true strength that helps us remain sinless and Satan wants to distance us from His word by deceiving us about its message.

“it is written” that Paul’s words are difficult to understand (2 Peter 3:16). You are distorting the scriptures toward your own destruction by using a difficult passage from Paul to distort Paul’s message as well as the clearer passage I found. Jesus is our example on how to remain sinless, you do not distort the scriptures, you grow by embracing all His teachings. When tested by Satan to sin against His Father, Jesus responded by citing the will of His Father, expressed in every word that comes from the mouth of God recorded in the scriptures.

The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” (Mathew 4:3-10 NIV)

Tell me, where did Jesus get His strength to resist the temptations? Did it come from the Spirit or from every word that comes from the mouth of God? If Jesus had not known the scriptures, how would the Spirit help Him resist Satan? The Spirit cannot help you if you choose to distort the word of God when facing temptations, He does not override your free will. The true strength to resist sin arises from every word that comes from the mouth of God, the Spirit cannot help you resist sin without the word of God.

With Jesus in the heavenly temple as our high priest, God internalized the struggle against SIN with a feedback loop faster than before, which can deal with more sin more quickly than was possible externally with the animals in the earthly temple. You are wrong about where the strength to resist SIN comes from, the strength is not in the Spirit but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. It is a sin to forget the holy Sabbath! You have not removed sin by removing the law that exposes sin, you have only numbed yourself to the sin still present. Like taking a pain killer for a toothache, it does not address the cause of the toothache it only numbs you to the presence of the cause, deceiving you into thinking it is gone till it pops up in other ways more systemic. It is not the Spirit that keeps you from sinning, what guards you from sinning is to keep in your heart every word that comes from the mouth of God, the true source of strength that Jesus showed when dealing with Satan’s temptations.

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10 NIV)

We have been talking about sin from the beginning, but thanks for reminding me of your questions, I will answer them below.

Sin is lawlessness. (1 John 3:4 NIV)

Jesus took upon Himself the punishment of breaking the law and gives us the opportunity to grow in newness to observe the law, the Spirit does in us a work that can be seen by others in your capacity to keep the law, something that is not possible without the help of the Spirit, especially in this world where Satan rains to provide constant social pressure to keep you from the true Sabbath until the soon return of Jesus.

The inclination to sin is compensated by the Spirit that provides the freedom to choose that we do not have without Him. The Spirit does not force us to be good, it only gives us the freedom to choose to be good, you still have to love it and make the necessary effort to achieve it. However, we are not alone in that effort, with God all things are possible, even keeping the Sabbath is within our reach in a world that will oppose you, to the point of wanting your death for being a constant reminder of their lawlessness. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Your post is way to long to respond to every point. You were just quoted Rom 7:6. What is so hard to understand about it since you quoted from 2 Pet 3?

I guess this is also hard to understand -

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Paul just said throw out the law.

What is so hard to understand about this -

Gal 5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

ace of hearts · Apr 8, 2019

ICONO'CLAST said:
The word used in Hebrews 4 :9 means there remains the keeping of a rest..
Sabbath Rest by Sinclair Ferguson

by Sinclair Ferguson

The anonymous author of Hebrews found different ways of describing the superiority of the Lord Jesus Christ. One of them, which forms the underlying motif of chapters 3 and 4, is that Jesus Christ gives the rest that neither Moses nor Joshua could provide. Under Moses, the people of God were disobedient and failed to enter into God’s rest (3:18). Psalm 95:11 (quoted in Hebrews 4:3) implies that Joshua could not have given the people “real rest” since “through David” God speaks about the rest he will give on another day (Heb. 4:7). This in turn implies that “There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God” (Heb. 4:9).

In speaking of this rest (3:18; 4:1, 3-6, 8) the author consistently used the same word for “rest” (katapausis). Suddenly, in speaking about the “rest” that remains for the people of God, he uses a different word (sabbatismos, used only here in the NT) meaning specifically a Sabbath rest. In the context of his teaching, this refers fundamentally to the “Sabbath rest” which is found in Christ (“Come … I will give you rest,” Matt. 11:28-30). Thus we are to “strive to enter that rest” (4:11).

Since Augustine, Christians have recognized that the Bible describes human experience in a fourfold scheme: in(i) creation, (ii) fall, (iii) redemption and (iv) glory. We are familiar with echoes of this in the Westminster Confession of Faith (chapter 9) and in Thomas Boston’s great book Human Nature in its Fourfold State. It is no surprise then that the Sabbath, which was made for man, is experienced by him in four ways.

In creation, man was made as God’s image—intended “naturally” as God’s child to reflect his Father. Since his Father worked creatively for six days and rested on the seventh, Adam, like a son, was to copy Him. Together, on the seventh day, they were to walk in the garden. That day was a time to listen to all the Father had to show and tell about the wonders of His creating work.

Thus the Sabbath Day was meant to be “Father’s Day” every week. It was “made” for Adam. It also had a hint of the future in it. The Father had finished His work, but Adam had not.

But Adam fell. He ruined everything, including the Sabbath. Instead of walking with God, he hid from God (Gen. 3:8). It was the Sabbath, Father’s Day, but God had to look for him!

This new context helps us to understand the significance of the fourth commandment. It was given to fallen man—that is why it contains a “you shall not.” He was not to work, but to rest. Externally, that meant ceasing from his ordinary tasks in order to meet with God. Internally, it involved ceasing from all self-sufficiency in order to rest in God’s grace.

Considering this, what difference did the coming of Jesus make to the Sabbath day? In Christ crucified and risen, we find eternal rest (Matt. 11:28-30), and we are restored to communion with God (Matt. 11:25-30). The lost treasures of the Sabbath are restored. We rest in Christ from our labor of self-sufficiency, and we have access to the Father (Eph. 2:18). As we meet with Him, He shows us Himself, His ways, His world, His purposes, His glory. And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week&mdash the Lord’s Day.

But we have not yet reached the goal. We still struggle to rest from our labors; we still must “strive to enter that rest” (Heb. 4:11). Consequently the weekly nature of the Sabbath continues as a reminder that we are not yet home with the Father. And since this rest is ours only through union with Christ in His death and resurrection, our struggles to refuse the old life and enjoy the new continue.

But one may ask: “How does this impact my Sundays as a Christian?” This view of the Sabbath should help us regulate our weeks. Sunday is “Father’s Day,” and we have an appointment to meet Him. The child who asks “How short can the meeting be?” has a dysfunctional relationship problem—not an intellectual, theological problem—something is amiss in his fellowship with God.

This view of the Sabbath helps us deal with the question “Is it ok to do … on Sunday?—because I don’t have any time to do it in the rest of the week?” If this is our question, the problem is not how we use Sunday, it is how we are misusing the rest of the week.

This view of the Lord’s Day helps us see the day as a foretaste of heaven. And it teaches us that if the worship, fellowship, ministry, and outreach of our churches do not give expression to that then something is seriously amiss.

Hebrews teaches us that eternal glory is a Sabbath rest. Every day, all day, will be “Father’s Day!” Thus if here and now we learn the pleasures of a God-given weekly rhythm, it will no longer seem strange to us that the eternal glory can be described as a prolonged Sabbath!

There's nothing in Heb 4 about the sabbath. The subject of the chapter is rest. "Sabbatismos" is a typology (picture) kind of word. Jesus is that rest - Mat 11:28-30 and was offered to sabbath keeping Jews. That means they didn't have God's rest even though they kept the 7th day.

Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

Well-Known Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads