Unplanned, the movie

gym_class_hero said:

ah, so exposing a 15 year old "child" to this film is beyond your imagination? How do you feel about that 15 year old getting an abortion thru PP w/o her parent's consent?

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My feelings are not at all relevant to the question of the rights of another human being to exercise agency over their own body. I do not have to approve someone else's choices to recognize their liberty to make that choice in the first place. The very idea that I should have to is absurd.

grasping the after wind said:

I would like to know if the film would make people consider the pro life POV as as a valid one even if they continued to disagree with it or if it would just anger pro choice advocates and make them see pro lifers as the caricatures they currently see them as. If it is simply terrible propaganda then It will only serve to reinforce the views of both sides, just as most pro choice propaganda does in the opposite direction. For people that want to wallow in the perceptions of those on the other side as either murderers or misogynists they may as well just not speak to each other at all .

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Given that it is apparently from the same individuals behind the propaganda God's Not Dead series, I doubt it will present anything even approaching a nuanced view.

gym_class_hero said:

A person's own body doesn't include two separate DNA's. It's science

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Baloney. Haven't you heard of Chimerism?

Chimera (genetics) - Wikipedia

gym_class_hero said:

so you admit you stole by watching the movie without paying for it but you claim Abby Johnson is untrustworthy?

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I don't intend on watching it. I will watch The Bible Reloaded review of it.

Archaeopteryx said:

I don't intend on watching it. I will watch The Bible Reloaded review of it.

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I'll have to look that up.

I like keeping my finger on the pulse of fundagelicalism from time to time, just so I can discuss it with my pastor. Being in the South, we are surrounded by this nonsense. We aren't avowedly political, but there are ways to preach the Gospel that leave people relatively immune to spiritual manipulation and propaganda.

My pastor actually comes from a more pro-life, natural law perspective, but even he recognizes the basic rightness of our churches teaching on this issue, which is far more nuanced than what is presented in the film.

FireDragon76 said:

I'll have to look that up.

I like keeping my finger on the pulse of fundagelicalism from time to time, just so I can discuss it with my pastor. Being in the South, we are surrounded by this nonsense. We aren't avowedly political, but there are ways to preach the Gospel that leave people relatively immune to spiritual manipulation and propaganda.

My pastor actually comes from a more pro-life, natural law perspective, but even he recognizes the basic rightness of our churches teaching on this issue, which is far more nuanced than what is presented in the film.

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Sadly these films—Unplanned and God's Not Dead—end up getting recommended by believers as a means of proselytising to nonbelievers (see, for example, the OP). Frankly I can think of no worse form of evangelical apologetics than these films; if I wanted to put someone off Christianity, I would recommend they watch these.

Archaeopteryx said:

Sadly these films—Unplanned and God's Not Dead—end up getting recommended by believers as a means of proselytising to nonbelievers (see, for example, the OP). Frankly I can think of no worse form of evangelical apologetics than these films; if I wanted to put someone off Christianity, I would recommend they watch these.

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I think its more like preaching to the choir. These films have an inherently political agenda, they are not designed to persuade intelligent people. It's a narrow tribalism mean to stigmatize and narrowly define issues with a great deal more complexity, so that the base can be motivated to get out there and push their narrow religious attitudes on the rest of us.

gym_class_hero said:

I like the nuance used in God's word when it says God hates the shedding of innocent blood..

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Well, except for when he does the shedding or the smiting.

Archaeopteryx said:

Well, except for when he does the shedding or the smiting.

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I was about to say, I'm pretty sure that most of the airmen that dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were Christians. Lots of innocent people were killed.

Killing is obviously not ideal but our ethics are based on realism rather than idealism.

gym_class_hero said:

I find my realism in the word of God, not in the feelings of men or in the direction of which way the wind blows

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As do pro-choice Christians. Obviously there are deep hermeneutic and theological differences here, but I think saying something like that (above) can really only be seen as pious rhetoric or virtue signalling of a sort. It does nothing to resolve those differences or advance the conversation.

gym_class_hero said:

it tells a story.

I think a pro choice person, faced with the brutality of an actual abortion, would reconsider their position. Just like pregnant woman, who see an ultrasound, often reconsider their choice.

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I'm a Pro-Choice person who actually did research on abortion procedures, including what procedures are appropriate during which time. I'm still Pro-Choice. It is a necessary to have these procedures available.

People who are swayed by the reality of the procedure never believed in a woman's right to choose in the first place. If they did, they would understand the right is the point, not the procedure.

gym_class_hero said:

I'm open to hearing the Bible verses that condone abortion. Thanks in advance

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It's not about condoning abortion. It's about recognizing other peoples freedoms and rights.

gym_class_hero said:

I'm open to hearing the Bible verses that condone abortion. Thanks in advance

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You are completely refusing to understand my point. It has nothing to do with condoning anyone's choices, merely respecting them and recognizing their rights to make those choices in the first place.

Besides, I don't subscribe to a regulative principle for interpreting the Scriptures . No Lutheran does.

Archaeopteryx said:

As do pro-choice Christians. Obviously there are deep hermeneutic and theological differences here, but I think saying something like that (above) can really only be seen as pious rhetoric or virtue signalling of a sort. It does nothing to resolve those differences or advance the conversation.

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White fundagelicals routinely misrepresent our churches' approaches by acting like its merely about a popularity contest for us. No, it's so that the Gospel can be clearly preached. Introducing anti-abortion politics as a sine qua non of the Christian faith distorts and misrepresents that faith, all for narrow culturally conservative interests.

Believe it or not, at one time most American evangelicals did not oppose Roe vs. Wade in the US. It was seen as a Catholic thing. Protestant theology, up until about 30 years ago, did not take natural law based ethics all that seriously. We have tended to considered ethics something that involves an intersubjective relationship between the individual believer, God, and our neighbor.

FireDragon76 said:

Making propagnda is inherently morally problematic. Pure Flix films routinely portray anyone who disagrees with conservative evangelicals in a negative, dehumanizing light. That's immoral and unethical.

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Then I imagine you don't want to see many movies, because most of them are propaganda. Just anti-God propaganda.

RestoreTheJoy said:

Then I imagine you don't want to see many movies, because most of them are propaganda. Just anti-God propaganda.

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This sort of rhetoric is cretinous and untrue.