Why do you (atheists, agnostics etc) find yourself in the Christian forums?

Paulos23 said:

I started here to debate about Creation vo Evolution many years ago. I was uncertain what I believed at that time. After talking to many people of many faiths here, I ended up atheist. Mind you, I was heading that way already, this board just made it more apparent.

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Well then I guess you truly are at least now like Han Solo as you have him as your avatar.

Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything.

I believe my friend you're mistaken but that's something Han did come to learn and eventually he'd say, "The force be with you!"

Oh and just as a side if I might mention Star Wars. Personally I think it's sad the story lines the franchise went with in the latter years. Han's story I think could have been better and Mark Hamil (Luke) is not pleased. To me it seems like watching a wailing Tauntaun give it's last breath!

I do like talking to people with difference ideas. I do find it a shame that many of the Christians I once talked to have moved away from this board.

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Well it's good to know you're not of the malicious sort. I suppose some atheists are towards people of whom they don't happen to agree.

Take care!

Romans 8 said:

If a Christian predicted something I'm not surprised if it was wrong. However, if the Holy Spirit gives prophecy through a Christian it is never wrong.

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In that case, not a single Christian prophecy I've ever heard (and I've heard a LOT of them, from Benny Hinn's ramblings to preachers and regular church goers in prayer or worship meetings etc). Not one single of them have come true. Still, the same Christians keep insisting that this is a real thing.

I have been coming to this forum off and on for over 10 years. Initially I was a Christian. I come because I enjoy discussion. If anything, this site has convinced me I was correct in leaving Christianity. It does not entice me to return to that faith.

I was a former christian, and was no longer a christian when i joined this site.

Why am i here?

I enjoy bantering with folks who may have differing opinions than mine. Tends to be less stimulating, just talking to folks who agree with you.

Also, i really enjoy observing human psychology and see how different people, state what they believe and why they believe what they do.

Romans 8 said:

The animals you're referring to are domesticated. They do not understand right and wrong, they understand reward and punishment. Wild dogs and cats will tear you to pieces and eat you without remorse.

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But wild dogs, wolves and lions generally don't tear members of their own pack or pride to pieces and, as has been pointed out, we kill them without remorse. Some birds as well as some mammals show compassion (reptiles and fish are jerks).

Without having studied any animal behavior, why makes you think that they don't have a sense of right and wrong? This seems like an assumption on your part without much basis.

Romans 8 said:

Benny Hinn is not a Christian. He's a false prophet and worships another Jesus and preaches another Gospel. He's leading people to hell, this is why Christians need the Holy Spirit and logical thinking skills. Benny Hinn is a part of the NAR movement, a group of apostates that teach a counterfeit gospel with counterfeit gifts which come from demons .

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Maybe that's true. I wouldn't know. But it reinforces my point and one of the reasons why I lost faith in Christianity: it may be obvious to you that Hinn is a false prophet. But to his followers, it's just as obvious that he's the real deal. Same with Catholics vs Protestants, or Jehova's Witnesses vs Mormons for that matter.

Romans 8 said:

Many dip their tow in the water, but do not actually submerse. That includes those that "lost their faith", because truly they never had it.

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A Muslim could use the exact same logic on you: the only reason you haven't embraced Islam is because you haven't really experienced it.

I used to believe like you do. No way those who fell away were ever truly saved to begin with. If only they had experienced God like I did, and having their faith confirmed as much as I did, it just wouldn't be possible to ever lose faith in God. Yet here I am as a former believer (and I'm not the only one).

To answer the OP, I'm here because after a lifetime in Christianity, I'm still interested in what's happening in that world. I also think theology can be interesting, though lately the theological debates are just a reminder how misguided religious people can be (I mean, there's a thread here where people are seriously debating what God thinks about your underwear). I enjoy reading, and sometimes participating in, sensible discussions about morality, philosophy, apologetics etc.

Romans 8 said:

Not everyone that leaves the church has stopped believing, some just prefer to live a worldly life and admit this. Many Christians do this and sometimes even decades later they come back. They never stopped believing, and they realized the world does not offer what it promises.

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What does the "world" promise?

Romans 8 said:

You're saying the reason you lost your faith was because you were lost in which faith was the correct one? So you traded your Christian belief for a belief in atheism? (can't see your status from my phone) You may be back you never know. I never ever thought I'd ever become a Christian. God works in mysterious ways.

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The lack of agreement between Christians wasn't the reason I lost faith, but it was certainly among the things that made me decide to question whether I really had good reasons for believing in the first place. I chose to put my faith to the test, and it didn't stand. I lost faith over many many years, very much against my will. It was painful but also a very fascinating journey. I usually call myself an agnostic today, though I'm technically an atheist, meaning simply that I don't believe in God now. But I often avoid the term atheist since I'm typically met with, as you word it, as if it's a "faith in atheism". It's not a faith, but a lack of one. It's not a worldview or a philosophy.

I am very fascinated by faith, religion, and how people can go from atheism to belief, or vice versa. People have reasoned their way into faith and out of it. I try to remember that there are smarter people than me on both (or rather every) side, so I think I should be careful claiming to know the truth. But that said, I now see Christianity pretty much like you (presumably) see Islam: there are reasons people believe it, but none that are very compelling to me.

I guess that if there is in fact a God, he (or she, or it, or they) doesn't appear to be too concerned about people having the one true religion. If God's wish is for everybody to be a Christian and therefore saved, I can't say I'm too impressed with his attempts to get his will done, especially if he is in fact omnipotent.

Romans 8 said:

I'm interested in hearing what draws you here. Do you have one foot in the door? Are you slowly exposing yourself towards Christ (dipping your toes first)?

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No, but thanks for asking.

[/quote]The reason I ask is that I can't relate to you. This is the last place I would go for discussion as an atheist or agnostic. [/quote]

And yet here you are.

[/quote]Do you come here because you're treated with more respect? Do you take a shining to discussing religion related topics? Do you simply like the forum rules? Are you back-slidden and attempting to get back on the horse? To debate? I don't get it.[/QUOTE]

I'm interested in Christian beliefs, even though I don't necessarily share them. Seems to me if they're going to take an interest in my country, my government, my educational system, my culture, my society, and my life, the least I could do is keep an eye on them.

In addition, I'm something of a literature/mythology buff, and since so much of Christian thinking is wrapped up in a certain book, how could I resist?

Plus, I do love a good debate... win or lose, i learn something. Proverbs 27:17, and all that.

TLK Valentine said:

In addition, I'm something of a literature/mythology buff, and since so much of Christian thinking is wrapped up in a certain book, how could I resist?

Plus, I do love a good debate... win or lose, i learn something. Proverbs 27:17, and all that.

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I'll add this to my response too - understanding aspects of the Bible is integral to interpreting a lot of European and American art and literature. So even if I don't believe in Christianity, no knowledge is wasted knowledge.

Romans 8 said:

I'm interested in hearing what draws you here. Do you have one foot in the door? Are you slowly exposing yourself towards Christ (dipping your toes first)?

The reason I ask is that I can't relate to you. This is the last place I would go for discussion as an atheist or agnostic. Do you come here because you're treated with more respect? Do you take a shining to discussing religion related topics? Do you simply like the forum rules? Are you back-slidden and attempting to get back on the horse? To debate? I don't get it.

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I originally joined here as a Christian and I have been participating on-and-off for many years now, even though I'm no longer a Christian. The main reason I come back: There are intelligent voices here—Christian and otherwise—that stimulate some thoughtful conversations.

Romans 8 said:

We are human. We were not created to be in accord. We were meant to learn from each other and live with each other based on our differences.

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Sure, but if there is in fact a God who wants people to believe in the one true religion, I would expect it to be pretty clear what that religion is. You say some people don't want salvation because of pride or whatever, but it should be obvious that no person who has ever lived would choose not to be saved if he knew for a fact that he could choose between life or eternal death (or hell, if that's what you believe).

If you look at Christianity from an atheistic angle, it makes perfect sense that it's so divided, that it changes with the times, that people argue over its theology etc etc. It's what you'd expect from a religion that isn't in fact true. It's like all those prophesies that don't come true: it makes sense if the truth is that prophesies aren't real. Same with miraculous healing: it simply doesn't happen.

Romans 8 said:

You put your faith to the test?

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

We are not to challenge God in defiance because we aren't getting the results we expect. We need to get to know God for this reason. We get to know Him from His book. I don't know what the circumstances were, or if you learned the bible in modest, this is however what the bible teaches.

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I didn't put God to the test like "show me this sign and I'll believe." But I did test the miracles part, specifically healing. Nothing. We'd say a million prayers, and sometimes, just sometimes, people's headaches would get better, but there was never anybody actually being healed from cancer or deafness, or anything that couldn't be better explained by normal fluctuations. As they say, why don't God heal amputees? The next time you hear about someone being healed, investigate it. See if it's not a little exaggerated. You may call that putting God to the test. But for me, I realized that if I were to be a Christian, I couldn't walk around talking about how God had done this or that if I didn't in fact know that he had done it.

I also decided to put prayer to the test. Like, what would happen if I simply stopped praying? The answer is nothing. No detectable change in anything in my life or those I prayed for.

Romans 8 said:

I never understood why atheists get so defensive when they are referred to as having a belief system. Everyone has a belief system whether they choose to believe this or not. The atheist thinks, "My belief is not a belief".

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But that's exactly my point, atheism isn't a belief. It means I don't believe there is a god. You are an atheist when it comes to Allah, right? Yet it doesn't make sense to say that your belief system is not being a Muslim.

Being an atheist doesn't tell you anything about what I believe, just that I don't believe in a particular thing.

Romans 8 said:

Islam cannot be proven. There is one God in Islam and no Muslim claims to know it. There is no healing, prophecy, or Holy Spirit. Our God is known as the trinity, bearing three distinct aspects: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all of which can be known through experience.

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Christianity can't be proven either, apparently.

Romans 8 said:

And you know this how? Because you didn't experience Him? Have you heard the term "Seek and ye shall find"? "Knock, and the door shall be opened?" This is God telling you to seek Him in earnest. Many obstacles stand in the way of us and Him. If you for instance harbor any unforgiveness towards anyone you will not find Him. If you have idols you will not find Him. If you find a good church that welcomes the Holy Spirit, anyone has the opportunity/ability to feel His presence. But few Christians go beyond that.

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Does that mean that anyone who doesn't share your faith by definition must not have seeked and knocked?
Did you forgive everyone for everything in order to find God? Is that a requirement? If so, it's a shame that so many Christians seem to believe it's the other way around: that one first receives God's forgiveness, then one forgives others. But again, that's the kind of confusion you'd expect if Christianity isn't in fact true.

Romans 8 said:

Everyone has the opportunity to be saved, but not everyone accepts this, mainly due to pride.

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But I can't choose to believe that Christianity is true, any more than you can choose to believe Islam is true.

Romans 8 said:

It's not Him that gets His will done here on earth. We accomplish His will through Him. That is what prayer is all about. It's like an electrical circuit that gets completed when our will is in alignment with His. "Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven". That's what this means. God Bless!

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I know that "if I were God I would [insert reasonable thing]" isn't necessarily a good argument. But if I were God and I cared about people, I wouldn't leave it up to humans to do my will.