Considering changing denomination...again.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

I feel like I must be doing something wrong to change so much.
I was raised Baptist. Big church, in church often. Sunday morning, afternoon and evening (sometimes after church events), Wednesday evenings too. I drifted away in later high school when I started driving myself. I spent my college years not in church and "trying out" a few other religions.
Towards the end of my college years I decided Catholicism was it. Went through RCIA and attended Catholic church for several years. My oldest two children were baptized Catholic. After the birth of my third, I discovered Orthodoxy and I've been attending Orthodox services for 18 months. I have met with the priest about becoming Orthodox about 9 months in, but have made no further moves on officially joining the Orthodox church. I do volunteer in Sunday School and have found myself teaching Sunday school about 1/3 of Sundays for PK-K students. I'm not entirely comfortable teaching Sunday school while not being an actual Orthodox Christian, but there was a need and I was willing to help. PK and K is mostly just crafts and coloring.
If you have made it this far, I've come to the heart of my issue. I'm feeling drawn to my old Church, the Church I grew up in. I visited last Sunday and I already feel moving to that Church is the way to go. I don't know if I'm just being rash and rushing, or if the Holy Spirit is calling me to do this, or if it's just in the best interest of my family to do this.
I just needed to let this out somewhere. I don't see my therapist again for a couple of weeks and getting things out usually helps me move through it. I'd appreciate any feedback or if anyone wants to talk through it with me. Thanks.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
I feel like I must be doing something wrong to change so much.
I was raised Baptist. Big church, in church often. Sunday morning, afternoon and evening (sometimes after church events), Wednesday evenings too. I drifted away in later high school when I started driving myself. I spent my college years not in church and "trying out" a few other religions.
Towards the end of my college years I decided Catholicism was it. Went through RCIA and attended Catholic church for several years. My oldest two children were baptized Catholic. After the birth of my third, I discovered Orthodoxy and I've been attending Orthodox services for 18 months. I have met with the priest about becoming Orthodox about 9 months in, but have made no further moves on officially joining the Orthodox church. I do volunteer in Sunday School and have found myself teaching Sunday school about 1/3 of Sundays for PK-K students. I'm not entirely comfortable teaching Sunday school while not being an actual Orthodox Christian, but there was a need and I was willing to help. PK and K is mostly just crafts and coloring.
If you have made it this far, I've come to the heart of my issue. I'm feeling drawn to my old Church, the Church I grew up in. I visited last Sunday and I already feel moving to that Church is the way to go. I don't know if I'm just being rash and rushing, or if the Holy Spirit is calling me to do this, or if it's just in the best interest of my family to do this.
I just needed to let this out somewhere. I don't see my therapist again for a couple of weeks and getting things out usually helps me move through it. I'd appreciate any feedback or if anyone wants to talk through it with me. Thanks.

I had the same temptations when I converted. I grew up country Baptist and sometimes Orthodoxy felt too foreign that I just wanted something more familiar and comfortable. Don't let emotion override truth and sound doctrine. This feeling will pass the longer you stay in Orthodoxy, while the lack of truth in the Baptist denomination will not. It will only satisfy temporarily as long as you can ignore the doctrinal inconsistencies within Baptist beliefs. Stay strong and this will pass, I promise.

What diocese is your parish in?

Also consider the fact that Baptist and Orthodox beliefs are completely different and incompatible. Do you believe in Christ's presence in the Eucharist? Do you believe in Theosis? What about liturgy and prayer of the heart?

Baptist singing can be more comforting to the westerner within its familiarity to Orthodox Chant, but it is ultimately more shallow and built around satisfying fleshly emotion rather than spiritual instruction.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
I had the same temptations when I converted. I grew up country Baptist and sometimes Orthodoxy felt too foreign that I just wanted something more familiar and comfortable. Don't let emotion override truth and sound doctrine. This feeling will pass the longer you stay in Orthodoxy, while the lack of truth in the Baptist denomination will not. It will only satisfy temporarily as long as you can ignore the doctrinal inconsistencies within Baptist beliefs. Stay strong and this will pass, I promise. I'm curious what diocese is your Church in?

I love Orthodoxy. I think if it were me, I'd be fine with the foreign-ness.

But one of the BIGGEST issues for me, one I also had with Catholicism, is the lack of focus on Children's ministries. The idea and the expectation that I should keep my 3 small children with me in Liturgy every week. The lack of more in-depth adult ministries. There is, in my Orthodox church, one 30 minute Sunday School lesson during the school year. Nothing for adults, save an occasional 8 week program that runs in the evening (hard for me with kids) and provides no childcare. No significant support for families.

I've tried volunteering in Sunday School, but it's a source of stress for me and I don't feel like I can make a positive change to do anything different. It's also a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH smaller church. Like a few hundred people instead of a few thousand.

I visited my old Church. The younger two kids went to the nursery while I took the older one to church with me (my oldest is in Kindergarten, for perspective). I only had one child, who I could focus on helping him learn to behave in church, instead of just trying to keep everyone from misbehaving. My younger kids had fun. Then, the kids could go to their Sunday School, when I got to go to another hour of discussion with people in my peer group. I have the opportunity to go to a parenting class this week on Tech and kids. I can go to a mom's ministry twice this week, with childcare provided. I could take my kids to a fun class to meet kids and learn about God this Wednesday if I wanted to.

I saw tons of people I know, either that I grew up with or know from the neighborhood. Despite there being thousands of people there, the pastor personally called me in the afternoon to thank me for coming. I can't even catch the Priest in fellowship hour at Orthodox church, he just doesn't seem accessible.

I don't know if the reason I haven't made any additional steps to join the Orthodox church is that something is holding me back, or I'm not sure.

HTacianas · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
I feel like I must be doing something wrong to change so much.
I was raised Baptist. Big church, in church often. Sunday morning, afternoon and evening (sometimes after church events), Wednesday evenings too. I drifted away in later high school when I started driving myself. I spent my college years not in church and "trying out" a few other religions.
Towards the end of my college years I decided Catholicism was it. Went through RCIA and attended Catholic church for several years. My oldest two children were baptized Catholic. After the birth of my third, I discovered Orthodoxy and I've been attending Orthodox services for 18 months. I have met with the priest about becoming Orthodox about 9 months in, but have made no further moves on officially joining the Orthodox church. I do volunteer in Sunday School and have found myself teaching Sunday school about 1/3 of Sundays for PK-K students. I'm not entirely comfortable teaching Sunday school while not being an actual Orthodox Christian, but there was a need and I was willing to help. PK and K is mostly just crafts and coloring.
If you have made it this far, I've come to the heart of my issue. I'm feeling drawn to my old Church, the Church I grew up in. I visited last Sunday and I already feel moving to that Church is the way to go. I don't know if I'm just being rash and rushing, or if the Holy Spirit is calling me to do this, or if it's just in the best interest of my family to do this.
I just needed to let this out somewhere. I don't see my therapist again for a couple of weeks and getting things out usually helps me move through it. I'd appreciate any feedback or if anyone wants to talk through it with me. Thanks.

I feel the same way sometimes. There's something -literally- about the smell of a Baptist church that creates a sense of nostalgia in me that makes me want to return to it.

I know better.

thecolorsblend · Apr 1, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
I had the same temptations when I converted. I grew up country Baptist and sometimes Orthodoxy felt too foreign that I just wanted something more familiar and comfortable. Don't let emotion override truth and sound doctrine. This feeling will pass the longer you stay in Orthodoxy, while the lack of truth in the Baptist denomination will not. It will only satisfy temporarily as long as you can ignore the doctrinal inconsistencies within Baptist beliefs. Stay strong and this will pass, I promise.

What diocese is your parish in?

Also consider the fact that Baptist and Orthodox beliefs are completely different and incompatible. Do you believe in Christ's presence in the Eucharist? Do you believe in Theosis? What about liturgy and prayer of the heart?

Baptist singing can be more comforting to the westerner within its familiarity to Orthodox Chant, but it is ultimately more shallow and built around satisfying fleshly emotion rather than spiritual instruction.

I must agree with you. It's difficult to relate to vacillation between traditional Christianity and evangelical Christianity. My pet theory is that before one more century passes, they won't be recognizable as essentially the same religion anymore.

I'm Catholic so my bias and preference are self-evident. Generally, I've never experienced "buyer's remorse" over converting to Catholicism.

To the OP, I ask what is it that drew you to Catholic and, later, Orthodox Christianity? Considering the vast differences between traditional Christianity and evangelicalism, whatever attracted you to the former is unlikely to be found in the latter.

I think this requires a lot of prayerful consideration on your part.

thecolorsblend · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
But one of the BIGGEST issues for me, one I also had with Catholicism, is the lack of focus on Children's ministries. The idea and the expectation that I should keep my 3 small children with me in Liturgy every week. The lack of more in-depth adult ministries.

I recognize your reluctance to teach in the Orthodox Church given that you are not Orthodox.

Still, the lack of ministries for adults could be a vocation for you. Perhaps, if you decide on christmation, you could create something for adults and lead it yourself? Forgive my ignorance on this matter as I'm not sure how things work in the Orthodox world or if such a thing is even possible.

I would imagine it most certainly is possible in most Catholic parishes. Certainly it's possible in my own, either joining or creating something new.

Regarding your concern about childcare during worship, again, I don't know how things work in the Orthodox world. But in the Catholic world, there is a reluctance to separate families from one another for too long a period. Mass is a corporate exercise and it is also a bonding experience for families (or it can be anyway).

I am not trying to make your burden heavier. But I hope this is at least somewhat helpful for you.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
I love Orthodoxy. I think if it were me, I'd be fine with the foreign-ness.

But one of the BIGGEST issues for me, one I also had with Catholicism, is the lack of focus on Children's ministries. The idea and the expectation that I should keep my 3 small children with me in Liturgy every week. The lack of more in-depth adult ministries. There is, in my Orthodox church, one 30 minute Sunday School lesson during the school year. Nothing for adults, save an occasional 8 week program that runs in the evening (hard for me with kids) and provides no childcare. No significant support for families.

I've tried volunteering in Sunday School, but it's a source of stress for me and I don't feel like I can make a positive change to do anything different. It's also a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH smaller church. Like a few hundred people instead of a few thousand.

I visited my old Church. The younger two kids went to the nursery while I took the older one to church with me (my oldest is in Kindergarten, for perspective). I only had one child, who I could focus on helping him learn to behave in church, instead of just trying to keep everyone from misbehaving. My younger kids had fun. Then, the kids could go to their Sunday School, when I got to go to another hour of discussion with people in my peer group. I have the opportunity to go to a parenting class this week on Tech and kids. I can go to a mom's ministry twice this week, with childcare provided. I could take my kids to a fun class to meet kids and learn about God this Wednesday if I wanted to.

I saw tons of people I know, either that I grew up with or know from the neighborhood. Despite there being thousands of people there, the pastor personally called me in the afternoon to thank me for coming. I can't even catch the Priest in fellowship hour at Orthodox church, he just doesn't seem accessible.

I don't know if the reason I haven't made any additional steps to join the Orthodox church is that something is holding me back, or I'm not sure.

I do understand. I really do. But it's a different culture. I have to schedule appointments with my priest. Are you in the Greek Archdiocese? If so I would look towards the ROCOR or OCA where these things are much smaller problems.

As for Sunday School: The Orthodox opinion on this is fairly simple: Biblical education should primarily be done at home so that the Children can be present during the Divine Liturgy in order to commune of the life giving mysteries of Christ, to pray, and to sanctify themselves for this.

In Protestantism intellectual knowledge is emphasized a lot more. A person's knowledge somehow determines their piety.

This is not so in Orthodoxy. Holy fools who acted like morons are considered the most pious. Why? Because prayer is more important than education. One can know everything but lose their soul, and this includes the realm of Biblical Study. Sunday School is nice, or Catechism if you will- but not necessary if the home life is sufficient. I learned very little in my Protestant Sunday School, and most of my knowledge came from my Grandmother reading scripture to me and pulling out her concordance to hand draw maps for me to understand what was going on politically at the time. That is what sticks.
I understand your passion for children, as does Orthodoxy.

You say the size is smaller yet the priest has less time: I can give one big reason for this: Money and time. Most large Protestant Churches give the Pastor a living wage, whereas many Orthodox Priests have to work full time Jobs because they cannot live on the parish check. There is also the fact that in a Baptist Church the Pastor merely stands and preaches for a time, while a priest must fast and keep vigil the night before, then stand for all of Matins, then liturgy. So Standing for up to 4 hours without having eaten or rested since the day before. It is quite taxing.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 1, 2019

Honestly a few hours in a Liturgy listening to the words of the Chants and the Sermons will do far more spiritually than however many years hearing shallow unsound teachings within Baptist Churches. Not only that but the Baptist Church is liberalizing rapidly. I think homosexuality will be on the move for acceptance fairly soon.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
I do understand. I really do. But it's a different culture. I have to schedule appointments with my priest. Are you in the Greek Archdiocese? If so I would look towards the ROCOR or OCA where these things are much smaller problems.

As for Sunday School: The Orthodox opinion on this is fairly simple: Biblical education should primarily be done at home so that the Children can be present during the Divine Liturgy in order to commune of the life giving mysteries of Christ, to pray, and to sanctify themselves for this.

In Protestantism intellectual knowledge is emphasized a lot more. A person's knowledge somehow determines their piety.

This is not so in Orthodoxy. Holy fools who acted like morons are considered the most pious. Why? Because prayer is more important than education. One can know everything but lose their soul, and this includes the realm of Biblical Study. Sunday School is nice, or Catechism if you will- but not necessary if the home life is sufficient. I learned very little in my Protestant Sunday School, and most of my knowledge came from my Grandmother reading scripture to me and pulling out her concordance to hand draw maps for me to understand what was going on politically at the time. That is what sticks.
I understand your passion for children, as does Orthodoxy.

You say the size is smaller yet the priest has less time: I can give one big reason for this: Money. Most large Protestant Churches give the Pastor a living wage, whereas many Orthodox Priests have to work full time Jobs because they cannot live on the parish check. There is also the fact that in a Baptist Church the Pastor merely stands and preaches for a time, while a priest must fast and keep vigil the night before, then stand for all of Matins, then liturgy. So Standing for up to 4 hours without having eaten or rested since the day before. It is quite taxing.

The Orthodox church I attend is Greek Orthodox.

I do educate my children at home. I'm a full-time SAHM who homeschools. I was homeschooled. Protestant church events were my main social life until middle school. I learned far more than Bible facts.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
The Orthodox church I attend is Greek Orthodox.

I do educate my children at home. I'm a full-time SAHM who homeschools. I was homeschooled. Protestant church events were my main social life until middle school. I learned far more than Bible facts.

Does the parish not have any social events?

The Faceless · Apr 1, 2019

I was coming to tell you to go home to the Orthodox Church, but you're already there. Don't leave home.

Rescued One · Apr 1, 2019

Well, depending on our own beliefs, you will get different answers. I'm happy with the direction God has brought me.

Proverbs 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Get your answers from God's word.

Christian All scripture 2-timothy-3-16-17.jpg

God bless you and your children.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
I recognize your reluctance to teach in the Orthodox Church given that you are not Orthodox.

Still, the lack of ministries for adults could be a vocation for you. Perhaps, if you decide on christmation, you could create something for adults and lead it yourself? Forgive my ignorance on this matter as I'm not sure how things work in the Orthodox world or if such a thing is even possible.

I would imagine it most certainly is possible in most Catholic parishes. Certainly it's possible in my own, either joining or creating something new.

Regarding your concern about childcare during worship, again, I don't know how things work in the Orthodox world. But in the Catholic world, there is a reluctance to separate families from one another for too long a period. Mass is a corporate exercise and it is also a bonding experience for families (or it can be anyway).

I am not trying to make your burden heavier. But I hope this is at least somewhat helpful for you.

I don't feel equipt to teach kindergarteners, I would not feel confident in my ability to teach adults.

I felt perhaps I was being led to tell the kindergarten teacher (Presbytera) that I'd be willing to help out some weeks if she needed an additional set of hands. It has meant me running Sunday School without her (with another mom's help) at least 1/3, maybe more, of the time, because Presbytera works and has to work some Sundays. It was NOT what I signed up for. I thought I'd be helping pass out things and helping keep order with the kids, not running the show.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
I feel like I must be doing something wrong to change so much.
I was raised Baptist. Big church, in church often. Sunday morning, afternoon and evening (sometimes after church events), Wednesday evenings too. I drifted away in later high school when I started driving myself. I spent my college years not in church and "trying out" a few other religions.
Towards the end of my college years I decided Catholicism was it. Went through RCIA and attended Catholic church for several years. My oldest two children were baptized Catholic. After the birth of my third, I discovered Orthodoxy and I've been attending Orthodox services for 18 months. I have met with the priest about becoming Orthodox about 9 months in, but have made no further moves on officially joining the Orthodox church. I do volunteer in Sunday School and have found myself teaching Sunday school about 1/3 of Sundays for PK-K students. I'm not entirely comfortable teaching Sunday school while not being an actual Orthodox Christian, but there was a need and I was willing to help. PK and K is mostly just crafts and coloring.
If you have made it this far, I've come to the heart of my issue. I'm feeling drawn to my old Church, the Church I grew up in. I visited last Sunday and I already feel moving to that Church is the way to go. I don't know if I'm just being rash and rushing, or if the Holy Spirit is calling me to do this, or if it's just in the best interest of my family to do this.
I just needed to let this out somewhere. I don't see my therapist again for a couple of weeks and getting things out usually helps me move through it. I'd appreciate any feedback or if anyone wants to talk through it with me. Thanks.

It could be both the Spirit's calling and, as a part of that, that it would be best for your family.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
I do understand. I really do. But it's a different culture. I have to schedule appointments with my priest. Are you in the Greek Archdiocese? If so I would look towards the ROCOR or OCA where these things are much smaller problems.

As for Sunday School: The Orthodox opinion on this is fairly simple: Biblical education should primarily be done at home so that the Children can be present during the Divine Liturgy in order to commune of the life giving mysteries of Christ, to pray, and to sanctify themselves for this.

In Protestantism intellectual knowledge is emphasized a lot more. A person's knowledge somehow determines their piety.

This is not so in Orthodoxy. Holy fools who acted like morons are considered the most pious. Why? Because prayer is more important than education. One can know everything but lose their soul, and this includes the realm of Biblical Study. Sunday School is nice, or Catechism if you will- but not necessary if the home life is sufficient. I learned very little in my Protestant Sunday School, and most of my knowledge came from my Grandmother reading scripture to me and pulling out her concordance to hand draw maps for me to understand what was going on politically at the time. That is what sticks.
I understand your passion for children, as does Orthodoxy.

You say the size is smaller yet the priest has less time: I can give one big reason for this: Money and time. Most large Protestant Churches give the Pastor a living wage, whereas many Orthodox Priests have to work full time Jobs because they cannot live on the parish check. There is also the fact that in a Baptist Church the Pastor merely stands and preaches for a time, while a priest must fast and keep vigil the night before, then stand for all of Matins, then liturgy. So Standing for up to 4 hours without having eaten or rested since the day before. It is quite taxing.

There are only two Orthodox churches within driving distance, a GOA and an Antiochian Orthodox church. The Greek church has plenty of money, they just started a renovation campaign (part functional, kitchen equipment, and part art, large mural). If money were an issue I don't think they'd be undertaking this stuff. I do recognize the physical impact though. That may be why he speaks to as few people possible then ducks into his office.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

Part of me just feels the whole past 10+ years of my life have been an "exploratory" phase and I am coming back home to the church I was raised in.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
I had the same temptations when I converted. I grew up country Baptist and sometimes Orthodoxy felt too foreign that I just wanted something more familiar and comfortable. Don't let emotion override truth and sound doctrine. This feeling will pass the longer you stay in Orthodoxy, while the lack of truth in the Baptist denomination will not. It will only satisfy temporarily as long as you can ignore the doctrinal inconsistencies within Baptist beliefs. Stay strong and this will pass, I promise.

What diocese is your parish in?

Also consider the fact that Baptist and Orthodox beliefs are completely different and incompatible. Do you believe in Christ's presence in the Eucharist? Do you believe in Theosis? What about liturgy and prayer of the heart?

Baptist singing can be more comforting to the westerner within its familiarity to Orthodox Chant, but it is ultimately more shallow and built around satisfying fleshly emotion rather than spiritual instruction.

I feel like I could answer the second half of this post better if there were some adult education classes in the Orthodox church. I was given a book, I read about these things, but that's about as far as it goes. It may be why I haven't gone any further.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
There are only two Orthodox churches within driving distance, a GOA and an Antiochian Orthodox church. The Greek church has plenty of money, they just started a renovation campaign (part functional, kitchen equipment, and part art, large mural). If money were an issue I don't think they'd be undertaking this stuff. I do recognize the physical impact though. That may be why he speaks to as few people possible then ducks into his office.

oooohhhh definitely try the Antiochian. My favorite parishes are all Antiochian. See how it is, they are generally VERY welcoming and warm. The current situation with the Greek Church is not the greatest in my opinion and it would be beneficial to go elsewhere. You are very blessed to have an Antiochian parish nearby as I only have TWO Greek and and an OCA.

☦Marius☦ · Apr 1, 2019

ms.smith said:
I feel like I could answer the second half of this post better if there were some adult education classes in the Orthodox church. I was given a book, I read about these things, but that's about as far as it goes. It may be why I haven't gone any further.

Well I encourage you to read on your own, especially with conversion.

I recommend Clark Clarkton's Faith series. He was an ex Baptist Pastor who converted and wrote several Catechist books. One is specifically comparing Baptist theology to Orthodox.

https://www.amazon.com/Way-Protestant-Should-Orthodox-Catechism/dp/0964914123

https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Unders...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=63ZE3FS6DRP2TK2WCJ7V

Its at least a good start.

ms.smith · Apr 1, 2019

☦Marius☦ said:
Does the parish not have any social events?

Occasional, like once a month or less often.

Considering changing denomination...again.

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