"THEY CAST DUST ON THEIR HEADS" Revelation 18:19

Is Revelation 18:19 showing 1st century Jerusalem as the Great City?


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LittleLambofJesus

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While doing a deeper study on that Great City/harlot in Revelation, I ran across the phrase "they cast dust<5522> their heads" in Reve 18:19.
Discuss...........

5522. choos from the base of 5494;
a heap (as poured out), i.e. rubbish; loose dirt:--dust.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19
And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]
===========================
I then went to look up where that Greek word was used in the rest of the NT and it is used in only 1 other verse in the entire NT, Mark 6:11:

Some of the major Bible versions leave out the 2nd part of of Mark 6:11, and some have "place" and others have "whosoever".



Mark 6:11 biblehub

New American Standard Bible

"Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust<5522> off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

King James Bible
And
whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust<5522> under your feet for a testimony against them.
[Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.]
========================================
I believe that particular Greek word, G6633, may be related to this Hebrew word H6080 for "dust", which is used in only 1 verse of the OT. [the root word of H6083]


6080 `aphar a primitive root:
meaning either to be gray or perhaps rather to pulverize; used only as denominative from 6083, to be dust:--cast (dust). H6080 עָפַר (`aphar) occurs 1 times in 1 verse

2Sa 16:13
And as David and his men went along the road, Shimei went along the hillside opposite him and cursed as he went, threw stones at him and kicked up dust<6080>.


.............................................
 
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Gregory Thompson

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While doing a deeper study on that Great City/harlot in Revelation, I ran across the phrase "they cast dust<5522> their heads" in Reve 18:19.
Discuss...........

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19
And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]
===========================
I then went to look up where that Greek word was used in the rest of the NT and it is used in only 1 other verse in the entire NT, Mark 6:11:

Some of the major Bible versions leave out the 2nd part of of Mark 6:11, and some have "place" and others have "whosoever".

Mark 6:11 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that place, as a testimony against them."

Mark 6:11

New American Standard Bible

"Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust<5522> off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

King James Bible
And
whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust<5522> under your feet for a testimony against them.
[Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.]
========================================
I believe that particular Greek word, G6633, may be related to this Hebrew word H6080 for "dust", which is used in only 1 verse of the OT. [the root word of H6083]


6080 `aphar a primitive root:
meaning either to be gray or perhaps rather to pulverize; used only as denominative from 6083, to be dust:--cast (dust). H6080 עָפַר (`aphar) occurs 1 times in 1 verse

2Sa 16:13
And as David and his men went along the road, Shimei went along the hillside opposite him and cursed as he went, threw stones at him and kicked up dust<6080>.


.............................................
The great city of confusion, along with the city that is the bride have a representation in our hearts.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The great city of confusion, along with the city that is the bride have a representation in our hearts.
Ahhh, thanks for bringing that up M C!
How can the inhabitants of the city be scattered abroad if the whole earth is laid waste?
=================
Isaiah 24

1 Behold, the LORD makes the earth empty and makes it waste, Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.

10 The City of Confusion is broken down. Every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
11 There is a crying in the streets because of the wine. All joy is darkened. The mirth of the land is gone.
12
The city is left in desolation, and the gate is struck with destruction. 13 For it will be so in the midst of the earth among the peoples, as the shaking of an olive tree, as the gleanings when the vintage is done. 14 These shall lift up their voice. They will shout for the majesty of Yahweh. They cry aloud from the sea. 15 Therefore glorify Yahweh in the east, even the name of Yahweh, the God of Israel, in the islands of the sea!
16
From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs. Glory to the righteous! But I said, "I pine away! I pine away! woe is me!" The treacherous have dealt treacherously. Yes, the treacherous have dealt very treacherously.
17 Fear the pit and the snare, are on you who inhabitant the earth. 18 It will happen that he who flees from the noise of the fear will fall into the pit; and he who comes up out of the midst of the pit will be taken in the snare; for the windows on high are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble. 19 The earth is utterly broken. The earth is torn apart. The earth is shaken violently.

20 The earth will stagger like a drunken man, and will sway back and forth like a hammock. Its disobedience will be heavy on it, and it will fall and not rise again.
21
It shall happen in that day that Yahweh will punish the army of the high ones on high, and the kings of the earth on the earth.
22 They shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison; and after many days shall they be visited.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed;
for Yahweh of Armies will reign on Mount Zion, and in Jerusalem
; and before his elders will be glory.

Zec 12:4
In that day,” says the LORD, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.
==============================================
Gen 11:9
Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.
Act 2:6
And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:29
Yet immediately after the tribulation of those days,
the sun shall be being darkened, and the moon not shall be giving the beam<5338> of her
and the stars shall be falling from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be being shaken<4531>

Mark 13:
24 ‘But in those the days, after that tribulation, that the sun shall be being darkened, and the moon not shall be give her beam,
25 and the stars shall be falling out of the heavens, and the powers the in the heavens shall be be being shaken<4531>

Luke 21:
25 ‘And shall be signs in the sun, and moon, and stars,
and on the land together anguish/distress<4928> of nations state of quandary<640>, roaring of sea and of shaking/tempest<4535>
26 men fainting of heart from fear and apprehensiveness of the coming to the homed-land<3625>.
For the powers of the heavens shall be being shaken<4531>.
====================================
Rev 6:12
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake;
and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.

Revelation 18
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19 And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5522 used in Mark 6:11]
 
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SkyWriting

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While doing a deeper study on that Great City/harlot in Revelation, I ran across the phrase "they cast dust<5522>on their heads" in Reve 18:19.

peanuts-pig-pen-gif-5.gif
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Ahhh, thanks for bringing that up M C!
How can the inhabitants of the city be scattered abroad if the whole earth is laid waste?
He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.
(Proverbs 25:28)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Mark 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust<5522> under your feet for a testimony against them.
[Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.]

5522. choos
rom the base of 5494;
a heap (as poured out), i.e. rubbish; loose dirt:--dust.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19


Revelation 18
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19 And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]
===================================
Another Greek word for "dust"

2868. koniortos from the base of 2867 and ornumi (to "rouse");
pulverulence (as blown about):--dust.
G2868 κονιορτός (koniortos), occurs 5 times in 5 verses

Used only in Matt and Luk of the Gospels. And 2 verses in Acts.

Here are the 3 verses used in the Gospels where dust is shaken off the feet and clothes of the cities of Israel that do not receive their word.

Mat 10

5 Jesus sent these twelve out, and commanded them, saying,
"Don't go among the Gentiles, and don't enter into any city of the Samaritans. 6 Rather, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 As you go, preach, saying, 'The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!' 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, and cast out demons. Freely you received, so freely give.
9 Don't take any gold, nor silver, nor brass in your money belts. 10 Take no bag for your journey, neither two coats, nor shoes, nor staff: for the laborer is worthy of his food. 11 Into whatever city or village you enter, find out who in it is worthy; and stay there until you go on. 12 As you enter into the household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come on it, but if it isn't worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 Whoever doesn't receive you, nor hear your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Most certainly I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to councils, and in their synagogues they will scourge you. 18 Yes, and you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the nations.

Luk 9:5

1 He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. 2 He sent them forth to preach the Kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3 He said to them, "Take nothing for your journey—neither staffs, nor wallet, nor bread, nor money; neither have two coats apiece. 4 Into whatever house you enter, stay there, and depart from there. 5 As many as don't receive you, when you depart from that city, shake off even the dust from your feet for a testimony against them." 6 They departed, and went throughout the villages, preaching the Good News, and healing everywhere.

Luk 10:11
1 Now after these things, the Lord also appointed seventy others, and sent them two by two ahead of him into every city and place, where he was about to come. 2 Then he said to them, "The harvest is indeed plentiful, but the laborers are few. Pray therefore to the Lord of the harvest, that he may send out laborers into his harvest. 3 Go your ways. Behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry no purse, nor wallet, nor sandals. Greet no one on the way. 5 Into whatever house you enter, first say, 'Peace be to this house.' 6 If a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on him; but if not, it will return to you. 7 Remain in that same house, eating and drinking the things they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Don't go from house to house. 8 Into whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat the things that are set before you. 9 Heal the sick who are therein, and tell them, 'The Kingdom of God has come near to you.'
10 But into whatever city you enter, and they don't receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 'Even the dust from your city that clings to us, we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the Kingdom of God has come near to you.' 12 I tell you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city.

13 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon which were done in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you. 15 You, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades.
16Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me. Whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!" 18 He said to them, "I saw Satan having fallen like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I give you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will in any way hurt you. 20 Nevertheless, don't rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
=================

TO BE CONTINUED
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation 18:
19 And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]

Mat 10:14
“And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
Luk 9:5
“And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”
Luk 10:11
The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.’
=======================================
Other 2 verses that "Dust" appears, and seems to occur mainly with/against the 1st century Jews.

Acts 13:
13 Now Paul and his company set sail from Paphos, and came to Perga in Pamphylia. John departed from them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But they, passing on from Perga, came to Antioch of Pisidia. They went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and sat down. 15 After the reading of the law and the prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, "Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, speak."
16 Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen

38 Be it known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man is proclaimed to you remission of sins, 39 and by him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest that come on you which is spoken in the prophets:

41 'Behold, you scoffers, and wonder, and perish; for I work a work in your days, a work which you will in no way believe, if one declares it to you.'"

44 The next Sabbath almost the whole city was gathered together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed. 46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, and said, "It was necessary that God's word should be spoken to you first. Since indeed you thrust it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold! we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so has the Lord commanded us, saying, 'I have set you as a light for the Gentiles, that you should bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth.'"


48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life believed. 49 The Lord's word was spread abroad throughout all the region. 50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, and stirred up a persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and threw them out of their borders.
51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came to Iconium. 52 The disciples were filled with joy with the Holy Spirit.
================
Acts 22:
17 "It happened that, when I had returned to Jerusalem, and while I prayed in the temple, I fell into a trance, 18 and saw him saying to me, 'Hurry and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not receive testimony concerning me from you.' 19 I said, 'Lord, they themselves know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue those who believed in you. 20 When the blood of Stephen, your witness, was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting to his death, and guarding the cloaks of those who killed him.' 21 "He said to me, 'Depart, for I will send you out far from here to the Gentiles.'"

22 They listened to him until he said that; then they lifted up their voice, and said, "Rid the earth of this fellow, for he isn't fit to live!" 23 As they cried out, and threw off their cloaks, and threw dust into the air,
24 the commanding officer commanded him to be brought into the barracks, ordering him to be examined by scourging, that he might know for what crime they shouted against him like that.

'
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Another form of G2868.

2867.
koniao from konia (dust; by analogy, lime); to whitewash:--whiten.
2868. koniortos kon-ee-or-tos' from the base of 2867 and ornumi (to "rouse");
pulverulence (as blown about):--dust.

Now this is interesting. These are the only 2 verses that word is used.....the Jewish Rulers.

G2867 κονιάω (koniaō) occurs 2 times in 2 verses

Mat 23:27

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
For you are like whitewashed<2867> tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.

Act 23:

2 And the high priest Ananias commanded those who stood by him to strike<5180> him on the mouth.
3 Then Paul said toward him, "is being about the God to be beating<5180> thee.
Wall! having been whitewashed<2867>! And thou are sitting judging<2919> me according to the Law and beside Law thou are ordering me to be being beaten<5180>
6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!”

5180. tupto a primary verb (in a strengthened form);
to "thump", i.e. cudgel or pummel (properly, with a stick or bastinado), but in any case by repeated blows; thus differing from 3817 and 3960, which denote a (usually single) blow with the hand or any instrument, or 4141 with the fist (or a hammer), or 4474 with the palm; as well as from 5177, an accidental collision); by implication, to punish; figuratively, to offend (the conscience):--beat, smite, strike, wound.
==========================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19 And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]


.
 
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eleos1954

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While doing a deeper study on that Great City/harlot in Revelation, I ran across the phrase "they cast dust<5522> their heads" in Reve 18:19.
Discuss...........

5522. choos from the base of 5494;
a heap (as poured out), i.e. rubbish; loose dirt:--dust.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19
And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]
===========================
I then went to look up where that Greek word was used in the rest of the NT and it is used in only 1 other verse in the entire NT, Mark 6:11:

Some of the major Bible versions leave out the 2nd part of of Mark 6:11, and some have "place" and others have "whosoever".



Mark 6:11 biblehub

New American Standard Bible

"Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust<5522> off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

King James Bible
And
whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust<5522> under your feet for a testimony against them.
[Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.]
========================================
I believe that particular Greek word, G6633, may be related to this Hebrew word H6080 for "dust", which is used in only 1 verse of the OT. [the root word of H6083]


6080 `aphar a primitive root:
meaning either to be gray or perhaps rather to pulverize; used only as denominative from 6083, to be dust:--cast (dust). H6080 עָפַר (`aphar) occurs 1 times in 1 verse

2Sa 16:13
And as David and his men went along the road, Shimei went along the hillside opposite him and cursed as he went, threw stones at him and kicked up dust<6080>.


.............................................

In the context using the entirety of Chapter 18

It seems to me, it is a prophecy referring to the state of the apostate churches (being like Babylon) in the end times and using Babylon as an analogy/example.

Basically ... (considering the chapter context)

The apostate churches would be those churches that are confusing the language/truth (false teachings) of Gods Holy Word.

One should consider the overall context (the entire chapter) rather than just certain verses that were selected out to be discussed.

God Bless.
 
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TribulationSigns

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While doing a deeper study on that Great City/harlot in Revelation, I ran across the phrase "they cast dust<5522> their heads" in Reve 18:19.

As I said earlier, I think that your overanalysis with word study using with various bible translations has compromised your understanding of who Babylon the Great is. This has nothing to do with physical city of Jersualem and literal smokes.

Let start with Revelation 9. The smoke is the residue of fire, and I believe that the smoke is symbolic of the power of Satan, when he is loose from the pit. When someone smells or can see smoke, it is a sign that there is burning. Just as in the old expression, "where there's smoke, there's fire." It is a signal that something is burning. It has a distinct smell because it is the residue of fire, and its inherent distinguishing characteristics to humans are that it both "blinds and chokes." The perfect representation for the power of Satan to obstruct the truth and impede the breath or spirit of life. Which I believe is why we read that it darkened the sun and air, the light and the spirit, and the locusts came out of it to destroy the church (locusts being a plague on a field).

Revelation 9:2
  • "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."
At this time of the opening and loosing of Satan from the pit (his power having been bound or restrained since the Cross), the wicked are now allowed (of God) go forth to the four quarters of the earth to deceive the nations and gather them together to battle against the church which is a great city of God on this side of the Cross. This smoke or his power is what chokes the spirit and blinds the eyes, symbolizing deception. I believe that in God declaring in Revelation 9 that the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit, it is an illustration of the light and spirit of the church being made darkened. The image of the sun representing light, and the air representing spirit. The smoke both blinds and chokes those in the church, because its sins have reached to heaven, and God remembers her iniquities (Revelation 18:5). The smoke is an illustration of the power of Satan bringing the church to desolation, a judgment sent by God and a warning sign to the saints of her impending judgment. Because of the locusts from this smoke, the great city of God will be no more.

Revelation 18:18-19
  • "And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
  • And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate."
This "smoke" of her burning is illustrating the church falling under the power of Satan as a judgment of God because of her iniquities. There will no one be made (spiritually) rich anymore because of the locusts from the smoke. In other words, there is no more salvation in the church after all Israel has been sealed, Revelation 7.

Selah!
 
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TribulationSigns

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More on the smoke...

Revelation 9:3
  • "And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power."
When we read the text carefully we see that the locusts were given power, even as the scorpions of the earth have power. I believe it is this smoke that is representing the power of the beast that was held captive in the pit. Using God's Word as our authority and comparing scripture with scripture, we see that the scorpions in scripture (like snakes/serpents) are often used to symbolize the power of Satan. It is a power that has no sway over the elect, but deceives the unfaithful of God's congregation. For example, see what Christ told the disciples when He sent them out to witness.

Luke 10:19
  • "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
The power Christ gave them was greater than the power of the scorpions and serpents. This isn't talking about scorpions and snakes any more than Mark chapter 16 was, it's talking about the power of Satan and how it can't harm true believers. Likewise, these locusts coming out from the smoke in the book of Revelation, given the power of the scorpion. This power is of Satan and cannot hurt the true believers. Their power is to hurt those of the church who are unfaithful, who are not true believers. These locusts will bring their house to desolation. The smoke of the locusts is the power of Satan from the pit.
 
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DavidPT

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As I said earlier, I think that your overanalysis with word study using with various bible translations has compromised your understanding of who Babylon the Great is. This has nothing to do with physical city of Jersualem and literal smokes.

Let start with Revelation 9. The smoke is the residue of fire, and I believe that the smoke is symbolic of the power of Satan, when he is loose from the pit. When someone smells or can see smoke, it is a sign that there is burning. Just as in the old expression, "where there's smoke, there's fire." It is a signal that something is burning. It has a distinct smell because it is the residue of fire, and its inherent distinguishing characteristics to humans are that it both "blinds and chokes." The perfect representation for the power of Satan to obstruct the truth and impede the breath or spirit of life. Which I believe is why we read that it darkened the sun and air, the light and the spirit, and the locusts came out of it to destroy the church (locusts being a plague on a field).

Revelation 9:2
  • "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."
At this time of the opening and loosing of Satan from the pit (his power having been bound or restrained since the Cross), the wicked are now allowed (of God) go forth to the four quarters of the earth to deceive the nations and gather them together to battle against the church which is a great city of God on this side of the Cross. This smoke or his power is what chokes the spirit and blinds the eyes, symbolizing deception. I believe that in God declaring in Revelation 9 that the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit, it is an illustration of the light and spirit of the church being made darkened. The image of the sun representing light, and the air representing spirit. The smoke both blinds and chokes those in the church, because its sins have reached to heaven, and God remembers her iniquities (Revelation 18:5). The smoke is an illustration of the power of Satan bringing the church to desolation, a judgment sent by God and a warning sign to the saints of her impending judgment. Because of the locusts from this smoke, the great city of God will be no more.

Revelation 18:18-19
  • "And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
  • And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate."
This "smoke" of her burning is illustrating the church falling under the power of Satan as a judgment of God because of her iniquities. There will no one be made (spiritually) rich anymore because of the locusts from the smoke. In other words, there is no more salvation in the church after all Israel has been sealed, Revelation 7.

Selah!

Where does it ever say in Revelation 9 that satan is loosed from the pit, which implies he is confined in the pit until opened in Revelation 9?

The following come out of the pit.

And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

So which of these locusts is referring to satan?

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Here we see the locusts had a king over them, yet this king isn't satan either. Because if it was, there's at least 2 places in Revelation where John could have clearly pointed this out.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

John neglected to mention the dragon is also Abaddon. So it's probably pretty safe to assume Abaddon is not satan then. So once again, where in Revelation 9 does it indicate satan also comes out of the pit at the time?
 
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TribulationSigns

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Where does it ever say in Revelation 9 that satan is loosed from the pit, which implies he is confined in the pit until opened in Revelation 9?

The book of Revelation is not in chronological order, remember that.

And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. So which of these locusts is referring to satan?

You misunderstood. The locusts signify false prophets and Christs who will bring their houses (churches) to desolation with their lying signs and wonders. They get this power from Satan for the smoke of the locusts is the power of Satan from the pit. Selah! Don't forget to read verse 3-4, where God has commanded that they (smoke locusts) can "only hurt those men which have NOT the seal of God in their foreheads." In other words, the false Christs and false prophets that come to deceive are attacking the church, and who do they deceive there? Under the rule of the Apollyon, the great destroyer Satan, they bring the rebellious church to desolation by deceiving those men within it that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.

Selah!


Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

The problem is that you forgot that Satan is a spirit. Not an angel as most believe. He is a spirit the "messenger" of evil, and Apollyon (or Abaddon) is Satan, that very same spirit and king ruling over the deceived. Satan doesn't give a command to Apollyon, Satan is Apollyon himself. That word means destruction, and that is the epitome of what he does here. He is the king or ruler of this spiritual army (of the deceived) from the abyss, and what he brings is death to these people. This Hebrew word [abaddon] only occurs here in the New Testament and 5 times in the Old Testament (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Psalm 88:11; Prov 15:11 ) and always relates to death, which this messenger from hell/hades brings to the unfaithful congregation (those in it who are not truly sealed). Selah!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18

10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19 And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]
===========================================
Some OT verses plus some info on the ancient practice of this:
2Sa 1:2
on the third day, behold, it happened that a man came from Saul's camp with his clothes torn and dust on his head. So it was, when he came to David, that he fell to the ground and prostrated himself.
2Sa 15:32
Now it happened when David had come to the top of the mountain, where he worshiped God—
there was Hushai the Archite coming to meet him with his robe torn and dust on his head.
Job 2:12
And when they raised their eyes from afar, and did not recognize him, they lifted their voices and wept; and each one tore his robe and sprinkled dust on his head toward heaven.

Jos 7:6
Then Joshua tore his clothes, and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the LORD until evening, he and the elders of Israel; and they put dust on their heads.
Neh 9:1
Now on the twenty-fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, in sackcloth, and with dust on their heads

Lam 2:10

The elders of the daughter of Zion
Sit on the ground and keep silence;
They throw dust on their heads And gird themselves with sackcloth.
The virgins of Jerusalem Bow their heads to the ground.

Eze 27:30

They will make their voice heard because of you;
They will cry bitterly and cast dust on their heads;
They will roll about in ashes;

Amo 2
5 But I will send a fire upon Judah,
And it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.”
7 They pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor, And pervert the way of the humble. A man and his father go in to the same girl To defile My holy name.
10 Also it was I who brought you up from the land of Egypt,
And led you forty years through the wilderness, To possess the land of the Amorite.

What is the origin of throwing dust over head (as a sign of mourning) in the Bible?

The practice of throwing dust upon one's head actually predates the writing of the Bible by several centuries, appearing in the pyramid texts of Egypt from the Pyramid of Pepi II. These writings date to around 2278 B.C. - some of the oldest know writings by humanity. For comparison, Abraham is usually dated to 1800 BC, so these mourning rituals were not exclusive to Hebrew culture. The Hebrews were either influenced by Egyptian practice during their slavery in Egypt, or this practice was shared by all cultures in the Levant.

Discussing a papyrus which discusses a funerary priestess named Teshnor from 517 BC, scholar and doctoral candidate Charlotte Booth notes in Lost Voices of the Nile: Everyday Life in Ancient Egypt,

Although female funerary priests had an important role in the funerary cult, the main role for women at a buriel was that of professional mourner. They wee hired for royal and noble funerals to throw dust over their heads, tear at their clothes, scratch their cheeks, wail and expose their breasts. It was considered unseemly for the women of the deceased's family to be shown in such grief, so they hired women for the occasion. These mourning rituals were ancient in origen and reflected the mourning of Nephthys andIsis for Osiris. Pyramid Text utterance 535 states,

Nephthys has indeed seized the tip of (her) two breasts because of her brother...

It is possible that the original intention of throwing dust upon ones head had some sort of superstitious or magical quality, or that it was merely to indicate a level of vigorous mourning characterized by daze, confusion, delirium and turmoil with a tumultuous quality to indicate the depth of bereavement, but we can only regarding the original intent of this activity in mourning - or even when this practice originated and how long it had been practiced before the reign of Pepi II. Clearly, however the practice predates writing and began in the prehistoric times of humanity.

==================================
 
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TribulationSigns

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The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18

10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19 And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]

The great city, Babylon the Great, is the fallen New Testament Church. She has been a faithful representative of God's Kingdom on Earth, the home of Two Witnesses, since Pentecost, but after all Israel has been sealed (Revelation 7), she has apostasy from God. God has commanded His sealed Elect to come out of her because he is going to judge the unfaithful church with plagues which are the power of the false prophets and christs themselves (ie. symbolically as frogs, locusts, lices, etc.) to spoil the plunder Gospel Truth and to deceive those who have not yet sealed by God. Standing afar off, the Elect witnessed and mourned over the church and fear of her torments by God.

It is happening right now for those with spiritual eyes and ears.
 
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DavidPT

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The book of Revelation is not in chronological order, remember that.

Even though I wholeheartedly agree, I'm still not convinced this proves satan is also released from the pit in Revelation 9.




You misunderstood. The locusts signify false prophets and Christs who will bring their houses (churches) to desolation with their lying signs and wonders. They get this power from Satan for the smoke of the locusts is the power of Satan from the pit. Selah! Don't forget to read verse 3-4, where God has commanded that they (smoke locusts) can "only hurt those men which have NOT the seal of God in their foreheads." In other words, the false Christs and false prophets that come to deceive are attacking the church, and who do they deceive there? Under the rule of the Apollyon, the great destroyer Satan, they bring the rebellious church to desolation by deceiving those men within it that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.

Selah!

Are you then meaning the apostates of the church? If they don't have the seal of God, but are part of the church, how could this be meaning saved saints in that case? So if you can further expand on what you mean here, I'm all ears.

Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

What about this 5 months? I would think false prophets operate longer than 5 months. They have been operating for thousands of years already, haven't they?




The problem is that you forgot that Satan is a spirit. Not an angel as most believe. He is a spirit the "messenger" of evil, and Apollyon (or Abaddon) is Satan, that very same spirit and king ruling over the deceived. Satan doesn't give a command to Apollyon, Satan is Apollyon himself. That word means destruction, and that is the epitome of what he does here. He is the king or ruler of this spiritual army (of the deceived) from the abyss, and what he brings is death to these people. This Hebrew word [abaddon] only occurs here in the New Testament and 5 times in the Old Testament (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Psalm 88:11; Prov 15:11 ) and always relates to death, which this messenger from hell/hades brings to the unfaithful congregation (those in it who are not truly sealed). Selah!


Yet those 2 passages I supplied that contain titles for satan, why didn't John mention Abaddon is also a title for satan?

You said satan is not angel. Let's check something in Revelation 12 which might help clear this up.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Even though it doesn't say Michael is an angel in this verse, we know from other Scriptures that he is an angel, an archangel. The text indicates he has angels under him. And so does satan. It therefore stands to reason, that if Michael is an angel, an archangel in this case, and that he has angels under him, and that satan also has angels under him, satan is an angel as well, an archangel of some kind, being the logical conclusion.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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While doing a deeper study on that Great City/harlot in Revelation, I ran across the phrase "they cast dust<5522> their heads" in Reve 18:19.
Discuss...........

5522. choos from the base of 5494;
a heap (as poured out), i.e. rubbish; loose dirt:--dust.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting of Her saying
"Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!
That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
19
And they cast dust<5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying
"Woe! Woe! the great City, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated. [G5502 used in Mark 6:11]
===========================
I then went to look up where that Greek word was used in the rest of the NT and it is used in only 1 other verse in the entire NT, Mark 6:11:

Some of the major Bible versions leave out the 2nd part of of Mark 6:11, and some have "place" and others have "whosoever".



Mark 6:11 biblehub

New American Standard Bible

"Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust<5522> off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

King James Bible
And
whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust<5522> under your feet for a testimony against them.
[Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.]
========================================
I believe that particular Greek word, G6633, may be related to this Hebrew word H6080 for "dust", which is used in only 1 verse of the OT. [the root word of H6083]


6080 `aphar a primitive root:
meaning either to be gray or perhaps rather to pulverize; used only as denominative from 6083, to be dust:--cast (dust). H6080 עָפַר (`aphar) occurs 1 times in 1 verse

2Sa 16:13
And as David and his men went along the road, Shimei went along the hillside opposite him and cursed as he went, threw stones at him and kicked up dust<6080>.


.............................................


 
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TribulationSigns

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Even though I wholeheartedly agree, I'm still not convinced this proves satan is also released from the pit in Revelation 9.

Is it because you do not understand what smoke signifies of. The locusts signify of. And how it blocks the sun and the air. Do you even know what the sun and the air represents? Like it or not, it is the power of Satan.

Are you then meaning the apostates of the church? If they don't have the seal of God, but are part of the church, how could this be meaning saved saints in that case? So if you can further expand on what you mean here, I'm all ears.

You need to study Revelation 11:1-2 again. There are two groups of people in Holy City (Great City). One is Elect. One is professed believers. The Elect is sealed, secured, and measured while the professed believers are not sealed, not secured, and not measured. The Elect is TRUE church while the Professed Believers are Corporate Church! Together they are in the same city. In the time of Great Tribulation, God will give them (corporate church) up to Satan to deceive as a judgment.

Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

I think one needs to stop reading through all numbers in Revelation as a literal hour, day, month and year as if we can count with the calendar. And despite man's ideas of no time criteria, five months qualifies as time criteria to those "who will receive it."

It is a symbolic period of time when the locusts come out to torment (hurt) men without the seal of God. No man knows when only God does. That is why God's judgment won't take place until AFTER ALL ISRAEL (sealed Elect) is secured through the testimony of Two Witnesses, then the bottomless pit can be opened where the beast will come out and kill (silence) Two Witnesses. Selah.

Yet those 2 passages I supplied that contain titles for satan, why didn't John mention Abaddon is also a title for satan?

Why should John? Abaddon simply means destroyer which is Satan.

Even though it doesn't say Michael is an angel in this verse, we know from other Scriptures that he is an angel, an archangel. The text indicates he has angels under him. And so does satan. It therefore stands to reason, that if Michael is an angel, an archangel in this case, and that he has angels under him, and that satan also has angels under him, satan is an angel as well, an archangel of some kind, being the logical conclusion.

If you really chose to understand Scripture "literally," then you must understand that the Lord never inspired the word angel anywhere in scripture. He inspired the Hebrew word [mal'ak] and Greek word [aggelos], both of which VERY LITERALLY transliterates to messenger, NOT angel. Here's the literal truth. It was man who superimposed the word "Angel" upon these two Biblically inspired words. He turned God's messengers into God's angels, and Satan's messengers to Satan's angels. It's not "literally" there at all. So if you "really" want to understand Scripture "literally" and accept what God's word "literally" said, you would choose the TRUTH that God "literally" says, messengers. The word angel is not a transliteration, it's not even a translation, it's a mongrelized or hybridized form of old English, old French and late Latin words rooted in the Greek. Anglicanized, not translated. If you "really" want to know what God very literally said:

Young's Literal Translation] Revelation 12:7
  • "And there came war in the heaven; Michael and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers,"

...but I'm guessing you really didn't want to hear what God very "literally" said there, did you?

If you "really" choose to understand scripture very literally and accept what God's word actually said (like you claim), you would either accept that there is a literal pregnant woman floating in literal heaven with 12 literal balls of fire on her head and a literal Dragon casting them down to earth, or accept the sun, moon and stars in the heaven there are not literal. One or the other.

...proving, of course, you actually "chose" to selectively choose words in that context literally or figuratively depending upon your own presuppositions and preconceived ideas and teachings. And that is a very unsound hermeneutic to try and understand what "God" is saying.

2nd Timothy 2:15
  • "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
Study unto rightly dividing or "cutting" proportionally, or equally, so there is consistent agreement and no discrepancy between this verse and that one. That is the only sound hermeneutic or system of interpretation of God's prophesy. Comparing Scripture with Scripture, the Spiritual with the Spiritual. Because inconsistency is the hallmark of error. The metaphor here being God's children must be "faithful and honest Stewards" (1st Corinthians 4:1) that cut or proportion and distribute straight/honorably/rightly so that we come to "His" truth. Not our own personal opinions of, nor the private interpretation of truth, but God's unadulterated truth.

Jesus Christ is Archangel Michael, the chief messenger of the Saints who are also the messengers. While Satan is Abaddon or Apollyon, means destroyer, the chief messenger or king of the unbelievers. Our enemies are the messengers, including the professed Christians!

Revelation 12:7-11
  • "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
  • And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
  • And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
  • And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
  • And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
When was the great accuser cast down? It was when the salvation and the strength of His kingdom went forth! All the victory of His messengers accomplished strictly by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony! You see, it is NOT a battle of swords, guns, Russia, or right in front of God's throne at all! But right in the kingdom of heaven on earth. The Old Testament congregation before the woman becomes the New Testament Congregation as a representative of God's Kingdom as she went forth to the world (wilderness) feed with Gospel! Selah!

The church grew to the ends of the world with BOTH the Elect, AND professed Christians until all Elect God has intent to seal has been sealed, THEN God will give the unfaithful professed Christians of His House up to Satan and his army by allowing them to COME INTO CHURCH to deceive them. That is why God has commanded His sealed Elect to come out!

While all of this, MANY Christians are looking to modern nation of Israel, Jersuaem of 70AD, or upcoming physical wars with guns and missile, totally miss about their CHURCH where God said the battle of armageddon is actually taking place right now in spiritual sense. How many will expect this and be ready for Christ's return when the judgment of the harlot is finished? Humm?
 
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