But this is my point and there is no disconnect. Your assertion is that Paul revealed the “true interpretation” of the desolate woman as the body of Christ, which includes Jews/Benjamites, Scythians or the elect members of the gentile nations.
I see the disconnect once again.
No, the "true interpretation" is not that the desolate woman is the body of Christ. The progressive revelation reveals that the CHILDREN OF the desolate woman are the body of Christ. The children of the desolate woman are those under the new covenant. Paul, from the tribe of Benjamin, includes himself in the children of the desolate woman, as he says the Jerusalem above is OUR MOTHER. Thus, the children of the desolate woman are not ONLY from Ephraim, as Paul, from the tribe of Benjamin, includes himself with these children.
Galatians 3:24-27 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
Therefore, if Paul, from the tribe of Benjamin, includes himself in the children of the desolate woman, than your assertion is incorrect that children of the desolate woman are only from Ephraim.
As you said in post 73756352, “we see the true interpretation of
Isaiah 54 does not only include Ephraim, but all those who belong to Christ under the new covenant,”
in speaking of the desolate woman.
No, not in speaking of the desolate woman, but in speaking of the
CHILDREN OF the desolate woman.
The children of the desolate woman include Ephraim, Jew, and Gentile.
Isaiah was confounded in your interpretation.
Are you speaking for Isaiah in his confounding?
Isaiah was confounded in your perception. Your assertion demolishes the grammatical integrity of Isaiah’s inspiration; it destroys the inerrancy of the scriptures, having Isaiah confounded.
I disagree, see Galatians 4, where Paul, from the tribe of Benjamin, includes himself in the children of the desolate woman.
The only way out of your dilemma is that Isaiah was accurate and that Ephraim/Israel is the wife refused from youth and restored as the nation in
Zechariah 10:7-10 and
Hosea 2:23 and is gathered in Christ and sown in the world to bring in the gentiles. Only in this way does the OT agree with the NT, which by your account they do not;
My argument is that in the grammatical historical context, Ephraim is the desolate woman who was divorced. In the grammatical historical context it was prophesied that HER CHILDREN, would be more than the married woman (southern kingdom of Judah).
So how is this fulfilled, that the CHILDREN of the northern kingdom would be more than that of the southern kingdom? Through their inclusion in the body of Christ as progressively revealed by Paul inspired by the Spirit.
***CAN THE CHILDREN OF EPHRAIM BE MORE THAN THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM OF JUDAH OUTSIDE OF CHRIST?
I have yet to see a proper rebuttal to my exposé that your assertion has the “seed” in
Isaiah 54:3 include the gentiles,
making the gentiles inherit the gentiles. The term “seed” in
Isaiah 54:3 must agree with
Genesis 22:18 and even
Galatians 3:29.
Then it appears that you either ignored, didn't read, or didn't understand my rebuttal.
God tells Abraham in "your offspring" shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
Genesis 22:18 and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice
Paul progressive revelation reveals that "your offspring" is singular, and thus the promises were to Abraham and to Christ. It is in Christ that all nations would be blessed.
Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many,
but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.
Isaiah prophesies that the desolate woman will spread out, and that "your offspring" will possess the nations. Notice the "your offspring" is singular, just as it is in Genesis 22
Isaiah 54:3 For you will spread abroad to the right and to the left, and your offspring will possess the nations and will people the desolate cities.
I used Paul's same progressive revelation to Abraham's singular seed and applied it to the offspring in the singular sense of the desolate woman. It is Christ, who inherits the nations.
We can confirm this with other scripture, because in the psalms, it is Christ you inherits the nations:
Psalm 2:7-8 I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.Ask of me,
and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.
What, and only Jews represent the vessels of mercy?
Maybe you misread again. Paul includes 2 groups of people in the vessels of mercy: Jews and Gentiles. Not only Jews, as you just asked.
But the context is overwhelmingly about all of Israel, and only passingly about the gentiles, which my last post substantiated. I do not see that merely repeating your error surmounts this. Maintaining that Paul cites the OT and demolishes the original intent is just another was of demolishing the grammatical integrity of the OT prophets.
You don't seem to want to answer the question. But I'll ask again. In the context of Romans 9:23-25, is it the Jews or the Gentiles who God now calls his people, who were not his people?
Romans 9:23-25 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
Already answered; the gentiles are included in the body through Christ and his use of the elect descendant of Abraham as missionaries to the gentiles, which agrees with
Genesis 22:18,
Isaiah 54:1-2,
Hosea 2:23 and
Zechariah 10:7-10.
So the gentiles are one with those of the northern kingdom and southern kingdom in the body of Christ? It's a simply yes or no, not a paragraph answer.
Your interpretation obfuscates how the gentiles are included.
If anyone is obfuscating, it is you Jerry. you keep using the word "assistance" which is not clear. The gentiles, as well as Israel, are saved by Christ, who is the seed of Abraham.
Galatians 3:8-9 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
1 Corinthians 3:7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.
and the ramifications are that the “seed” in
Genesis 22:18 can only represent the elect, biological descendants of Abraham, as the gentiles are still aliens to the covenant at that time. Galatian 3:29 represents the fulfillment of
Genesis 22:18, making the gentiles heirs through Christ, and his use of the elect biological descendants of Abraham.
Jesus is the biological offspring to whom the promises of Abraham were spoken of.
Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed.
The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.
The promises given to Abraham's offspring referred to Christ.
Galatians 3:19 Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions,
until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred.
Those who are in Christ are one with Christ, regardless of race, tribe, nor nationality.
Ephesians 5:31-32 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and
the two will become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church.
Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
So, you are wrong, the patriarchs knew very well the gentiles were to be saved; they just didn’t know how; have you not read Luke?
Again, Jerry? Are you not reading my posts closely enough? I never said the patriarchs didn't know the gentiles were to be saved in my previous post. I stated those in generations past didn't know that Gentiles would be FELLOW heirs to the promises in Christ.
Ephesians 3:4-6 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was
not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
The Hebrew word for nations is Goyim. The goyim represent the gentiles and in the collective sense the seed represents the elect descendants of Abraham, unless one reads in a superficial capacity.
You mean if one read it in a superficial capacity. For the non superficial capacity tells us that the seed is Christ, not the collective.
And while it still cannot be stated that the gentiles are heirs in a biological sense, by the Holy Spirit God they were given citizenship and could be spiritually counted as the seed of Abraham, hence
Galatians 3:29.
Biology no longer matters. Gentiles are fellow heirs.
that the Jerusalem which is above is the desolate woman, Zion, in
Isaiah 54 and 49, the mother of the church.
This has been my argument the entire time.
Just as in
Isaiah 54:1-3, in order to maintain the grammatical-historical integrity of the OT scripture the nation in
Matthew 21:43 must refer to Ephraim/Israel and the fruit to the gentiles.
The kingdom was given to Christ at his ascension
Daniel 7:14
And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.
Luke 19:12 He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to
receive for himself a kingdom and then return
The kingdom is given to the saints of the most high
Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;
Hebrew 12:28
Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe
Those that are fellow heirs with Christ are not ONLY Ephraim, but anyone, regardless of race, tribe, or nationality in Christ.
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
The grammatical evidence in the NT is found in the Greek term for nation,
ethnos, which is in the singular form for Israel or a gentile nation. In the plural form it represents the gentiles or the nations. We find the singular form in
Matthew 21:43 and since God certainly did not give the kingdom to any singular gentile nation then the coherent interpretation lead us to the other nation of in
Isaiah 54:1 and
Hosea 2:23 and
1 Peter 2:9-10: Ephraim/Israel. Now it up to you to show us were the church is identified literally as a nation, without endless theological allegories.
God promised to make Israel jealous with a foolish nation (singular in the grammatical context). Paul reveals that this nation is the gentiles (plural in the grammatical context).
Romans 10:19 But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;
with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”
Romans 11:11 However, because of their trespass,
salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous
he did so by grafting the gentiles into the olive root.
Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
Thus making them one with Israel through Christ.
Galatians 3:28 is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female,
for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Does Ephraim have a separate house than the Jews and gentiles who accept Christ?
1 Peter 2:5 yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ
This conveys that Ephraim is grafted back on to the olive tree in this age, while Judah is blinded.
Paul says this of the gentiles in Romans 11, so are saying that Ephraim and gentiles are on in the same?
Matthews citation from Jeremiah presents difficulties as you say, just as his previous one from Hosea. In
Hosea 11:1 God calls his son out of Egypt in Hosea at the exodus, which was literal fulfillment. Matthew employed Hosea as a type and the antitype is when Christ is called out of Egypt, but only when one grasps Christ bears the title of Israel (
Isaiah 49:3).
I absolutely agree
But the text in Jeremiah is not literal and employs personifications and metaphors to relate the future event when Ephraim is restored. In this case, Christ bears the title of Israel and Rachael is heard in Rama weeping for her children. One must have the historical knowledge, as the Hebrews did in the 1st century, that the many of the Israelites fled to Judah when the Assyrians conquered Ephraim/Israel. Such knowledge interprets the fulfillment of Jeremiah, when Christ, again, bears the title of Israel, specifically the 10 tribes who are exiled and are heard bemoaning and then saved by being grafted back onto the olive tree.
So those from Israel would know this is about herod killing babies in Bethlehem prior to the coming of the Spirit solely based on the grammatical historical context?
