Making The Sign of The Cross (Videos and Early Church Father / Writer Quotes)

PanDeVida said:

worshipjunky,

So you rather be "Rude" to God, in not making the sign of the cross for fear of indulgences and promises. Wow!

Yes, you do "have to admit that it feels...rude" because it is. Your words, not mine. (food for thought)

Pan De Vida

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It's not rude to God not to give the sign of the cross which was not even known to exist prior to the second century. Yahweh is pretty clear in the Bible what he hates and none of it has to do with ritual, ceremony or hand signals.

I think it can be a wonderful practice if it is helpful for people as they remember the Triune God who loves them and acted in history to bring them into a family relationship. But it is just a technology, a practice put into place to meet a certain objective. If the objective is lost, the gesture is pointless. All tradition is this way: it can be helpful and good but it can easily slide into rote actions and false spirituality. That is far more offensive to God, as he shared through prophets and the Son.

PanDeVida said:

Making the Sign of the Cross is FREE to do at any time, not for when you give it an "Okay".

When you wake up in the morning
Before meals
Just Because you love the Cross of Christ
Before going to bed
and in any time between the above.
It is not you telling yourself to make the sign of the Cross, it is Jesus Christ Himself. Amen Amen

Pan De Vida

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I was okay with everything you wrote here… until that last line. Where do Jesus Christ Himself tell you to make that sign and why didn't he do it until the second century A.D.? This is not an attested practice in the early church and definitely never mentioned in the Bible.

Hank77 said:

People just naturally like rituals then in religions those rituals begin with or take on a meaning.

Years and years ago when we were a young couple we would travel to my in-laws home in another state. When it was time to leave my father-in-law would have us kneel before him and he would pray for us to have a safe journey home and make the sign of the cross over us. There was something very comforting about the whole thing, not just the prayer but the sign as well. It was like the completion of the blessing rather like the Amen at the end of prayer.
I'm no longer Catholic but I still get that same comfort from making the sign of our Lord's cross.

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Hank, once you are a Baptized Catholic, you will always be Catholic. Can a man say he is a woman, yes he could say it, but in reality, he is not! The Same with you-you are a Catholic.

Like the prodigal son, he left Home, but Home was always waiting for him to come back. Its time to come back home and feel how you said you felt above "There was something very comforting about the whole thing, not just the prayer but the sign as well". The Comfort was Jesus Christ and His Church.

Hank, even though you said you left the Catholic Church, can you walk into the Catholic Church today and go to Confession something that true protestants cannot do? the Answer is YES! Again that means you are and will always be Catholic.

Pan De Vida

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

• Athanasius of Alexandria (269-373 A.D.)

"By the signing of the holy and life-giving cross, devils and various scourges are driven away. For it is without price and without cost and praises him who can say it. The holy fathers have, by their words, transmitted to us, and even to the unbelieving heretics, how the two raised fingers and the single hand reveal Christ our God in His dual nature but single substance. The right hand proclaims His immeasurable strength, His sitting on the right hand of the Father, and His coming down unto us from Heaven. Again, by the movement of the hands to our right the enemies of God will be driven out, as the Lord triumphs over the Devil with His inconquerable power, rendering him dismal and weak."


Sign of the Cross - OrthodoxWiki

From: The Sign of the Cross

We should make the sign of the Cross:

1. Both upon entering the House of God and upon leaving it.
2. Every time the words, "The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit," are mentioned.
3. When we hear or say the Trisagion, "Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us" (Agios o Theos...").
4. When we hear the name of the All-Holy Mother of God (Theotokos), the Ever-Virgin Mary and the names of the Saints.
5. Before and after receiving the Mysterion (Sacrament) of Holy Communion.
6. At the end of the recitation of the Creed (Symbol of faith) and the Lord's Prayer.
7. After the reading of the Holy Gospel Lesson.
8. When we venerate (kiss) a holy icon, a cross or the Evaggelion (Holy Gospel Book).
9. Before and following our daily prayers (evening, morning, etc.
10. Before and after each meal.
11. When passing by an Orthodox church.
12. Before we leave or drive away from our home or work. Generally before we travel anywhere. When we are tempted from demons during the day or at sleep.

Preferably, we should make the sign of the cross three times. The three times symbolize God the Holy Trinity.

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Nothing in the scripture ever says that such a ritual is necessary or accomplishes anything.

Holding the fingers or hand a certain way... moving your arms in a certain pattern... accomplishes nothing but indicate that you are RC.

Salvation is belief in Christ and admitting you are a sinner. Recognition of your inability to save yourself, recognition that Christ died for you... accepting this as your salvation.....following Him and His ways....

Not making some motion in front of your body or over someone else's..

PanDeVida said:

Hank, once you are a Baptized Catholic, you will always be Catholic. Can a man say he is a woman, yes he could say it, but in reality, he is not! The Same with you-you are a Catholic.

Like the prodigal son, he left Home, but Home was always waiting for him to come back. Its time to come back home and feel how you said you felt above "There was something very comforting about the whole thing, not just the prayer but the sign as well". The Comfort was Jesus Christ and His Church.

Hank, even though you said you left the Catholic Church, can you walk into the Catholic Church today and go to Confession something that true protestants cannot do? the Answer is YES! Again that means you are and will always be Catholic.

Pan De Vida

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Men have different Chormosomes than women... You can test any human on this earth and find out if they are male or female... no matter what they think in their head... or what they do as their habits and actions..



Every human can be whatever religion they want.. If they want to follow Catholicism... then... they can be a Catholic... The RC church would probably have some ritual that they would have to partake of to be accepted..

However, Christ could care less... We are all human... we all are sinners.... Christ sees sinners who have accepted Him... or humans that have denied Him...

End of story.

My wife was raised Catholic...... she attends an associated gospel church that preaches salvation through Christ..

Nobody there is ever labeled... All are accepted... All are welcome to partake of communion... It is up to them to access themselves as to whether they are worthy and it is proper for them to partake.

Telling someone that they are always a certain "religion", to me... seems a little possessive.

PanDeVida said:

worshipjunky,

So you rather be "Rude" to God, in not making the sign of the cross for fear of indulgences and promises. Wow!

Yes, you do "have to admit that it feels...rude" because it is. Your words, not mine. (food for thought)

Pan De Vida

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No, you misunderstood. It feels strange, yes. I was Catholic for 15 years. I don't do it because I do feel the evidence is more in favor of it being superstitious. I've never felt comfortable with anything that states that God is more bound to respond for you if you do a certain action or prayer. In the OP, there was statements that the sign of the Cross will cause demons to flee, win spiritual victories, protect you, etc. I remember when I was Catholic being told to make the sign of the Cross whenever I passed a cemetery because that would win favors and indulgences for the dead, or to make sure I made the sign of the Cross on the forehead of each of my children, because then they would be physically and spiritually protected.
So which is more rude- omitting the sign of the Cross, or treating God like a vending machine? I'm not saying everyone who makes the sign of the Cross has that mentality, but I've seen it far too often.

Ing Bee said:

While I enjoy worms staying in their cans, this statement shouldn't be controversial: it is a historically attested Biblical fact (the full meal, sitting down, all together, no clergy involved). That's the context of 1 Corinthians 11.

Isn't it just humans to turn a remembrance –intentionally couched within a normal human activity – into a pageant full of ritual, costume and ceremony?

Isn't it just like humans to take a remembrance intended to unify Jesus' people and turn it into a way of excluding and dividing up people? Isn't that just what Paul was dealing with in 1 Corinthians 11 and James addresses in his epistle?

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History shows it is the Real Blood and Body of Jesus

Jonaitis said:

Many of us object to it because we don't see a reason for it. It seems to be based on a superstitious belief that it will do something, or help something work. God doesn't need us to do that...

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God doesn't need us to do anything... so what we do is for the sake of receiving greater help - not to help God. For example, is it for God's sake that we anoint our ill brothers and sisters with holy oil, or for them and for us? (James 5:14) Is the anointing with oil based on a superstitious belief that it will help do something, or help something work? Does God need us to do that? Does the anointing with oil "ritual" help us somehow? Could the making of the sign of the cross upon ourselves not also help us somehow?

Jonaitis said:

A Roman cross that was used to execute criminals is suppose to scare demons?

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Yes. (1 Corinthians 1:23-24)

Jonaitis said:

Damian, I pray with eyes open and closed, I bow and look up, I walk or stand, but I don't look at these things as helping my prayer to him who hears. I don't trust in my posture, I don't trust in my movements, I don't even trust in my words. I can commune with groaning too deep for words and God in heaven can still hear them as I sit there troubled. This thread seems to import the idea that the sign of the cross amplifies our prayer to God's sight, this is superstition.

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these things do not make our prayers more powerful, which would be a pagan value, but they may work at centring our focus with God, which arguably may have better results with prayer. but to look at this way seems to miss the point, prayer is not about a special combination of things to get better results and if we approach it that way we've turned God into a genie.

Prayer is worship and being able to approach the Father in the authority of the Son but this is also why these rituals are done as they help us enter into worship and there is nothing wrong with using aids to do this.

I'm a Pentecostal and Pentecostal tends to not like such things but we have our own versions even though we would never admit it. For example, we value spontaneity and emotion in our worship not things that are pre-set, but in our own way, we are declaring that worship is more authentic through these forms than other forms (even if we don't know it). Spontaneous worship and emotion can also carry pagan values when we view it as more powerful... the problem is most Pentecostals do view it this way because they view it as a confirmation of the Holy Spirit. There becomes a fine line between that which is manifested from the Holy Spirit and that which is mimicking these manifestations (even when we remove tongues from the equation) Something tells us that when the Holy Spirit comes prayer and worship look a certain way so we seek these ways and the Holy Spirit at the same time, and the result is a form of liturgy.

That is an example perhaps at a different end of the spectrum but the by-product is the same that there are many who ritualize these forms and look to them in a pagan mindset with it's own power to them. From the outside, we look in and see the warning signs (just as outside Pentecostal circles do) and wag the finger but from the inside, we are blinded to these things. What insiders desire is God and they seek him through the ways they know how and to reject these ways would be rejecting their conscience of how God works. What is better is not to condemn these practices, because they exist in an innumerable amount of forms in all sects of Christianity but to teach how to worship authentically through them. One may make a sign of the cross treated as a charm or spell or one may make the same sign and reflect a pure heart of worship, let's condemn the former and teach the latter regardless which form you use to connect with God.

If the sign of the cross just reminds you about Christ, good and fine. It becomes a problem when superstitious beliefs are attached to the ritual.

Jonaitis said:

If the sign of the cross just reminds you about Christ, good and fine. It becomes a problem when superstitious beliefs are attached to the ritual.

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Nothing superstitious about the cross

David Cabrera said:

Nothing superstitious about the cross

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I agree.

Is the sign of the cross not found in most manuscripts of Luke 11:1-4?

So some people are saying its about reminding them of Christ being crucified, and others that its a symbol of the Trinity. So which is it? There's nothing worse than a mixed symbol.

☦Marius☦ said:

Wouldn't bring up the Eucharist in that manner unless you want to open a whole other can of worms.

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Too late....

truefiction1 said:

Yes. (1 Corinthians 1:23-24)

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I see no basis for this in that scripture.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Just pray about it man.

I didn’t do it for the first 37 years of my life and now I do and I know that there is a difference as an Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. It’s hard to explain.

Just take the words of The Holy Church Fathers and Writers and think about it. There is a reason they did these things and wrote them down.

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I have no intention of following this ritual, just because some other men, not apostles, not writers of the canon, say it is to be done.
There are a lot of things that they do that are of human invention and not of any biblical support. I don't follow any of them. A relationship, worship and prayer, to our creator, is not to be clouded with complexities, rituals and repetitive mutterings....It is a personal relationship..

I don't ask my kids to come and do some motion or some repeated mantra before they talk to me and ask me for something or help in any way... Christ is the same.. Only "religion" does this...

JacksBratt said:

I see no basis for this in that scripture.

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Read the whole chapter if you will, and you'll be hard pressed not to see the basis for the power of the cross. Pay careful attention to what Paul is really saying about the cross, and particularly the summation of the message of the Cross (for which the sign of the Cross is a symbolic gesture) stated in 1 Corinthians 1:18.