CNN: President Trump Threatens to Close Border with Mexico

TLK Valentine

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Well a barrier does help slow the traffic, and serves to funnel traffic to secure points of entry.

And when Donald closes those points of entry, the traffic will find ways to bypass the barrier.

There are three ways to do this; none of them are particularly complicated.

A wall (which in reality is not like a solid concrete wall across the entire boarder as the word might suggest) gives boarder patrol precious time to apprehend illegal crossings.

A fence is going to give, at most, ten minutes of precious time.

Given the thousands of miles of border, ten minutes (and again, that's tops) isn't much.

One man or a small group of men, even with transportation, can only cover so much ground. Take this idea, multiply the agents and apply it to nearly two thousand miles of boarder and we still have the same problem.

Right -- you've hit upon the classic problem of offense vs. defense: The offense can be anywhere, while the defense must be everywhere.

Closing the boarder for an unspecified amount of time, in theory could help boarder patrol to catch up with the current humanitarian crisis, because in theory at least, it would greatly reduce the inflow of traffic, providing time to deal with the crisis on our side of the boarder.

It would also greatly reduce the inflow of goods, services, and revenue. How many millions -- billions -- of dollars are you willing to flush while the Border Patrol starts beating the bushes looking for people climbing the invisible wall?

For every single immigrant, whether illegal and sent back or illegal and eligible for the same benefits provided for needy legal citizens, there is a cost and a price paid by all legal citizens, even when the government provides the benefits, it's never free.

Ah, but how many more of those immigrants find work and contribute to the system?

It really does not help that this has been a problem, a crisis really, for decades.

And in those decades, smarter solutions have been tried... and failed.

The estimated number of illegal immigrants currently in America is in the multi million range. Key word is estimated, and it does not account for the undocumented nor the legitimacy of the process when considering all legalized immigrants. Think about the consequences for America as a nation if this continues at the same pace and if we do not take necessary action to slow this problem down.

I take it there's a Doomsday scenario in here somewhere?

The way I see it, if we do not address the problem now, it will be too late for our children.

Too late how? Let's get that Doomsday scenario out in the open...

Unfortunately our lax policies and measures have compounded this problem and encouraged this crisis to the point we are currently at.

Are we therefore going to err in the opposite direction, and go draconian?

We must discourage illegal immigration, it is hurting us as a country, it has taken it's toll for decades, and will continue to do so unless it is discouraged.

We must do this, but we must also do this intelligently.

Building a wall and cowering behind it -- not particularly intelligent.

Sorry for not being more brief, but I wanted to articulate and explain the thought process, rather than just making statements. God bless you, God bless America.

God bless everyone else, while we're at it.

...or not?
 
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civilwarbuff

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but there have been multiple posters who have made that statement,
So no public/elected official then.
You yourself called it a "bill" which means you think it will have the force of law.
I don't recall saying that but I did say the vote was non-binding so it was not law.
 
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Speedwell

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So no public/elected official then.
No. I was indeed taking a rhetorical jab at certain posters on this board. The whole thing may be rhetorical, including the initial exaggeration of resolution into law. For example, what did Rion mean here in commenting on the recent defeat of AOC's resolution?

I don't recall saying that but I did say the vote was non-binding so it was not law.[/QUOTE]
Aren't we supposed to be talking about closing the border?....LOL
It won't happen, or if it does it won't be for long. The situation will be analogous to the shutdown--once non-payment of TSA employees began to affect airline industry profits, the shutdown ended. Closing the border would be an economic disaster. One hopes someone will explain that to the President before he tries it.
 
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mark46

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I believe that immigration reform is behind held up because there isn't majority in Congress to support any of the principal positions. And, almost everyone refuses to make incremental reforms.

Many Republicans want fewer immigrants. Also, if they could, they would send all the undocumented back to their native countries. In no case, do they want to increase the number of immigrant citizens. The Freedom Caucus went apoplectic last year when Trump was willing to give citizenship to the DACA folks in trade for his wall. His offer applied to many more than was requested. And the Dems just asked for legal status; they didn't think that citizenship was possible. Unfortunately, Trump relies on this group for a lot, and so there can be no real reform until Trump's second term, when their power over Trump is now more. Trump would sign immigration reform in a second, if it was true reform. BTW, such reform would have a lot of give and take.

There are other mainstream and even tea Party Republicans who supported immigration reform in the past and would do so in the future. If Trump doesn't tin for re-election, the party would move into their control. These are such folks as Rubio, Haley and Scott. Such a party would try to appeal to Hispanics and other minorities.

Democrats suffer from an attention to priorities and the unwllingness to take small wins. This close to the election, this no longer matters.

I am frustrated and impatient by the lack of comprehensive immigration reform - derailed by false political narratives and the inattention to Latin America in general. Of course this is a political forum that is driven by the latest head line or Trump tweet. Carry on...
 
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TLK Valentine

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wing2000

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First, someone better offer a geography lesson to Trump's favorite show...

cenam_MX.jpg
 
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TLK Valentine

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You are a little late....they already issued the correction and apology....

True -- but logically, that should be a sign that they, like the rest of the MSM, cannot be trusted ever... right?
 
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cow451

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...the asylum process is overwhelmed. You could even say there is a refugee crises on both sides of the border...for several months now.

Yet....

Where is the call for NGO refugee agencies who have the skill set to deal with such problems?
Is the Trump Administration asking Congress for solutions in resolving this issue?

No.

Instead we hear messages designed to appeal to Trump's base:

"Build the Wall"
"Close the Border"
"Cut off aid to Central America"

None of those will resolve the current issue and in fact, only exacerbate more immigration. As long as Central Americas correctly perceive there is path to the US via the asylum process -- they will continue to come.
One might argue that Trump wants to increase immigration by creating the fear the border will be closed soon. Therefore anybody wanting to cross the border better do it NOW.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I believe that immigration reform is behind held up because there isn't majority in Congress to support any of the principal positions. And, almost everyone refuses to make incremental reforms.

Agreed. I think this is mainly because any such incremental reform is going to require more than one president to fully implement, and neither side trusts the other to not undo it once they get into power.

Many Republicans want fewer immigrants. Also, if they could, they would send all the undocumented back to their native countries. In no case, do they want to increase the number of immigrant citizens.

While seemingly ignoring the fact that hunting them all down, rounding them all up, and shipping them all out would be prohibitively (not to mention absurdly) more expensive than any other option.

Our system can't even keep up with the administration's current "zero tolerance" policy as it is...

The Freedom Caucus went apoplectic last year when Trump was willing to give citizenship to the DACA folks in trade for his wall. His offer applied to many more than was requested. And the Dems just asked for legal status; they didn't think that citizenship was possible. Unfortunately, Trump relies on this group for a lot, and so there can be no real reform until Trump's second term, when their power over Trump is now more.

Actually, it could happen now. The Freedom Caucus only exists in the House, not the Senate. Since the Dems have taken the House, the FC's influence is now more or less moot.

Trump would sign immigration reform in a second, if it was true reform. BTW, such reform would have a lot of give and take.

Donald talks a good game, but it remains to be seen how much he's actually willing to "give" on this matter. He did proudly own a record-breaking shutdown over this...

There are other mainstream and even tea Party Republicans who supported immigration reform in the past and would do so in the future. If Trump doesn't tin for re-election, the party would move into their control. These are such folks as Rubio, Haley and Scott. Such a party would try to appeal to Hispanics and other minorities.

It remains to be seen if, even if Donald were out of the picture, those minorities would be so quick to forgive and forget.

Democrats suffer from an attention to priorities and the unwllingness to take small wins. This close to the election, this no longer matters.

Agreed. They want the Big Win to rub in Donald's face, not realizing that any win, no matter how small, would have the same effect.
 
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rjs330

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...yes, he continues to shoot himself in the foot.

Frankly, I think he's bluffing. He's tweeted this before to re-ignite his base...as we see here...

Yeah I kind if think he's bluffing too. It may be another one of those "Mexico is going to pay for the wall things."
 
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rjs330

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CNN reported that the Republican mayor of San Diego claims that 177,000 jobs rely on trade with Mexico. I suppose that San Diego, Yuma, El Paso, Laredo and other border cities could be hit hard if the President stops trade with Mexico. Still, the CBS Evening News just reported that the number of illegals coming across in February was the most in a decade. It would seem that something must be done to control the situation, but what?

Build the wall! Along with bolstering Border patrol, ICE and electronic surveillance. Remove all federal funding from sanctuary cities.
 
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rjs330

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Americans are killing Americans every single day! We must act now. American lives are at stake!

There's nothing we can do about Americans doing bad things. We already have laws. Unless you are advocating to remove citizenship from Americans doing those things.

We CAN do something about ILLEGAL immigrants killing, raping, robbing etc. It's called not letting them be here in the first place.
 
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cow451

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There's nothing we can do about Americans doing bad things. We already have laws. Unless you are advocating to remove citizenship from Americans doing those things.

We CAN do something about ILLEGAL immigrants killing, raping, robbing etc. It's called not letting them be here in the first place.
If that is truly the case why are we telegraphing our moves so that they have an incentive to rush the border like a Black Friday sale at Wal-mart?
 
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rjs330

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And when Donald closes those points of entry, the traffic will find ways to bypass the barrier.

There are three ways to do this; none of them are particularly complicated.



A fence is going to give, at most, ten minutes of precious time.

Given the thousands of miles of border, ten minutes (and again, that's tops) isn't much.



Right -- you've hit upon the classic problem of offense vs. defense: The offense can be anywhere, while the defense must be everywhere.



It would also greatly reduce the inflow of goods, services, and revenue. How many millions -- billions -- of dollars are you willing to flush while the Border Patrol starts beating the bushes looking for people climbing the invisible wall?



Ah, but how many more of those immigrants find work and contribute to the system?



And in those decades, smarter solutions have been tried... and failed.



I take it there's a Doomsday scenario in here somewhere?



Too late how? Let's get that Doomsday scenario out in the open...



Are we therefore going to err in the opposite direction, and go draconian?



We must do this, but we must also do this intelligently.

Building a wall and cowering behind it -- not particularly intelligent.



God bless everyone else, while we're at it.

...or not?

Building a wall is only part of the solution. Much more must be done.
 
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rjs330

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One might argue that Trump wants to increase immigration by creating the fear the border will be closed soon. Therefore anybody wanting to cross the border better do it NOW.

I don't think he "wants" it but it could be argued that it would be a consequence of it. But I'm not sure how that works. Do most illegals come through the points of entry?
 
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