Axiom on the book of Revelation

iamlamad · Mar 30, 2019

I have recently come up with a second axiom on Revelation. Either prove it wrong or right. It has not yet been tested.

AXIOM 2 on Revelation:

ANY theory that does not include the understanding that "the book" in Rev. 5 is a legal document created in heaven and about planet earth and incorporate into that theory the following facts is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong:

1. Neither God nor Satan can begin anything written on or about a seal before that seal can be legally opened.

2. The purpose of the seals are to PREVENT either God or Satan from opening the book and beginning the events written IN the book - such as any trumpet judgment.

3. Once a seal is opened, then what is written about that seal can legally begin.

4. The seals are numbered for their proper order. Any theory that attempts to rearrange what John has numbered for sequencing will be wrong.

5. Because the seals are sealing the book, nothing written in Revelation after the 7th seal [what is written INSIDE the book] can possibly come to pass before all the seals are opened so that the book can be opened. Therefore, any theory that moves a seal to align with a trumpet or a vial will be proven wrong. What we read in Revelation after the 7th seal is opened is what is written INSIDE the book: the trumpet judgments are written inside the book.

6. Neither God nor Satan could legally take the book and open the seals. It would have to be a man from the human race. Further, it would have to be a man who could redeem mankind - a man who could escape death and rise again - and escape from hell.

7. There was a time when Jesus Christ was NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals. He BECAME worthy once He fulfilled what was required to redeem mankind.

Lost4words · Mar 30, 2019

God is not bound by what is written in Revelation.

usexpat97 · Mar 30, 2019

I find it hard to call anything about Revelation axiomatic.

truthisfreedom2019 · Mar 30, 2019

usexpat97 said:
I find it hard to call anything about Revelation axiomatic.

I agree. When I analyze the book of Revelation, I find some of the things written in it quite humorous. For instance, it appears that the fifth seal, when I sum it up, would be "Just woke you up to say it's not morning yet". Then after the sixth seal is opened, which is supposed to be the coming of the lord, it talks about four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding back the four winds of the earth to hurt it. There is an angel that accends and has to get after the four angels because he hasn't finished his work yet since he has to seal the bondservants of God on their foreheads. If the four angles would read this part of Revelations, they wouldn't have to be stopped from their work and they would be waiting for that angle to come so he could complete his work first. I have been a foreman before and I have seen chaos on the work site, so I guess it's not that uncommon, but when I'm not in charge of it, it sure looks funny. There seems to be a communication problem there, their boss hasn't let them all know what's going on. God is truth, there is no lie with God and God is organized. See Isaiah 28:23-29.

JackRT · Mar 30, 2019

truthisfreedom2019 said:
I agree. When I analyze the book of Revelation, I find some of the things written in it quite humorous. For instance, it appears that the fifth seal, when I sum it up, would be "Just woke you up to say it's not morning yet". Then after the sixth seal is opened, which is supposed to be the coming of the lord, it talks about four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding back the four winds of the earth to hurt it. There is an angel that accends and has to get after the four angels because he hasn't finished his work yet since he has to seal the bondservants of God on their foreheads. If the four angles would read this part of Revelations, they wouldn't have to be stopped from their work and they would be waiting for that angle to come so he could complete his work first. I have been a foreman before and I have seen chaos on the work site, so I guess it's not that uncommon, but when I'm not in charge of it, it sure looks funny. There seems to be a communication problem there, their boss hasn't let them all know what's going on. God is truth, there is no lie with God and God is organized. See Isaiah 28:23-29.

Troubles like that arise when things get taken too literally.

iamlamad · Mar 30, 2019

Lost4words said:
God is not bound by what is written in Revelation.

God is a VERY legal God and would never do ANYTHING illegal.
For example: He gave dominion over this planet to Adam, and then Adam lost that dominion to Satan when he listened to him. But God did not take that dominion back. That would have been illegal.

No, God will allow Satan to continue as the god of this world until Adam's lease runs out.

Consider then, the book sealed with 7 seals as a court document - created in the courtroom of heaven. God is not going to go against that document.

Handmaid for Jesus · Mar 31, 2019

Lost4words said:
God is not bound by what is written in Revelation.

This is not true. If we consider Revelation the Word of God as we consider the rest of scripture, we know that our Father is bound by His Word, for it is written that His Word is truth.

usexpat97 said:
I find it hard to call anything about Revelation axiomatic.

truthisfreedom2019 said:
I agree. When I analyze the book of Revelation, I find some of the things written in it quite humorous. For instance, it appears that the fifth seal, when I sum it up, would be "Just woke you up to say it's not morning yet". Then after the sixth seal is opened, which is supposed to be the coming of the lord, it talks about four angels standing on the four corners of the earth holding back the four winds of the earth to hurt it. There is an angel that accends and has to get after the four angels because he hasn't finished his work yet since he has to seal the bondservants of God on their foreheads. If the four angles would read this part of Revelations, they wouldn't have to be stopped from their work and they would be waiting for that angle to come so he could complete his work first. I have been a foreman before and I have seen chaos on the work site, so I guess it's not that uncommon, but when I'm not in charge of it, it sure looks funny. There seems to be a communication problem there, their boss hasn't let them all know what's going on. God is truth, there is no lie with God and God is organized. See Isaiah 28:23-29.

The Revelation is not bound by the analysis of mere men.

JackRT said:
Troubles like that arise when things get taken too literally.

Our Father says what He means and means what He says. If there is trouble, it is not on the part of the scripture. It is with the understanding of men.

david shelby · Apr 1, 2019

iamlamad said:
I have recently come up with a second axiom on Revelation. Either prove it wrong or right. It has not yet been tested.

AXIOM 2 on Revelation:

ANY theory that does not include the understanding that "the book" in Rev. 5 is a legal document

And here I always thought it was a dream a guy exiled on the Isle of Patmos had. Who knew its actually a brief filed by a lawyer? Mind = blown.

Douggg · Apr 1, 2019

iamlamad said:
I have recently come up with a second axiom on Revelation. Either prove it wrong or right. It has not yet been tested.

AXIOM 2 on Revelation:

ANY theory that does not include the understanding that "the book" in Rev. 5 is a legal document created in heaven and about planet earth and incorporate into that theory the following facts is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong:

1. Neither God nor Satan can begin anything written on or about a seal before that seal can be legally opened.

2. The purpose of the seals are to PREVENT either God or Satan from opening the book and beginning the events written IN the book - such as any trumpet judgment.

3. Once a seal is opened, then what is written about that seal can legally begin.

4. The seals are numbered for their proper order. Any theory that attempts to rearrange what John has numbered for sequencing will be wrong.

5. Because the seals are sealing the book, nothing written in Revelation after the 7th seal [what is written INSIDE the book] can possibly come to pass before all the seals are opened so that the book can be opened. Therefore, any theory that moves a seal to align with a trumpet or a vial will be proven wrong. What we read in Revelation after the 7th seal is opened is what is written INSIDE the book: the trumpet judgments are written inside the book.

6. Neither God nor Satan could legally take the book and open the seals. It would have to be a man from the human race. Further, it would have to be a man who could redeem mankind - a man who could escape death and rise again - and escape from hell.

7. There was a time when Jesus Christ was NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals. He BECAME worthy once He fulfilled what was required to redeem mankind.

God can do anything He wants and nobody can say a thing. We should thank God for Him always keeping His word.

Your post is just an attempt to justify your interpretation of Revelation by making up your rules for interpretation.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 1, 2019

iamlamad said:
I have recently come up with a second axiom on Revelation. Either prove it wrong or right. It has not yet been tested.
7. There was a time when Jesus Christ was NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals. He BECAME worthy once He fulfilled what was required to redeem mankind.

Thank you Jesus.

286. amnos am-nos' apparently a primary word; a lamb:--lamb.

John 1:
29 On the next day, he sees Jesus coming to him and says, “Behold the Lamb<286> of the God, the One taking away the sin of the world.
35 On the next day John again was standing, and two of his disciples. 36 And having looked at Jesus walking, he says, “Behold the Lamb<286> of the God!” 37 And the two disciples heard him speaking, and followed Jesus.

721. arnion diminutive from 704; a lambkin:--lamb.
4969. sphazo a primary verb;
to butcher (especially an animal for food or in sacrifice) or (generally) to slaughter, or (specially), to maim (violently):--kill, slay, wound.

Revelation 5:6
And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones<2226>
and in midst of the Elders a Lambkin<721> standing, as having been slaughtered<4969>
================

Jeremiah 19:
2 “And go out to the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the Potsherd Gate; and proclaim there the words that I will tell you,
6 “therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “that this place shall no more be called Tophet or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom,
but the Valley of Slaughter.

Isaiah 30:25
There will be on every high mountain And on every high hill
Rivers and streams of waters,
In the Day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.

James 5:
5 ye luxuriate upon the land and ye squander, ye nourish the hearts of ye, in Day of-Slaughter<4967>
8 be ye patient! also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord is nigh<1448>
========================
Live by the slaughter, die by the slaughter:

"THE TIME IS NIGH AT HAND" AND "COMING IN SWIFTNESS" REVELATION PROPHECY

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
that the Time/Season is nigh<1451>. [Revelation 22:10]

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM
=============
.................When the last resistance in the city failed, the Romans slaughtered until their arms grew weary: Now devouring fire and quenching blood fought their own battle for control of the streets. The total Josephus gives for the dead in the siege -- 1.1 million, or nearly half the Jews in Judea -- may be somewhat less unlikely than most such stratospheric figures that survive from antiquity.
The siege of Jerusalem was probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history. Not only was the city sacked and burned, but Titus gave directions that what remained should be wholly demolished, except for a stretch of wall and some high towers that were left as a symbol to the world of Roman strength -- and as a warning to anyone who might again defy the fury of the Romans.
=============

Isa 30:25
There will be on every high mountain And on every high hill
Rivers and streams of waters,
In the Day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Three celebrated walls surrounded the city on every side, except that which was deemed inaccessible, and there it was defended by one wall only. The most ancient of these walls was remarkable for its great strength, and was, moreover, erected on a hanging rock, and fortified by sixty towers.
on the middle wall there were fourteen towers only ;
but on the third, which was also distinguished by the extraordinary merit of its architecture, there were no less than ninety.
The celebrated tower of Psephinos, before which Titus at first encamped, was erected on this latter wall, and even excelled it in the superior style of its architecture...................

.................................

.................................

Douggg · Apr 1, 2019

iamlamad said:
I have recently come up with a second axiom on Revelation. Either prove it wrong or right. It has not yet been tested.

AXIOM 2 on Revelation:

ANY theory that does not include the understanding that "the book" in Rev. 5 is a legal document created in heaven and about planet earth and incorporate into that theory the following facts is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong:

1. Neither God nor Satan can begin anything written on or about a seal before that seal can be legally opened.

2. The purpose of the seals are to PREVENT either God or Satan from opening the book and beginning the events written IN the book - such as any trumpet judgment.

3. Once a seal is opened, then what is written about that seal can legally begin.

4. The seals are numbered for their proper order. Any theory that attempts to rearrange what John has numbered for sequencing will be wrong.

5. Because the seals are sealing the book, nothing written in Revelation after the 7th seal [what is written INSIDE the book] can possibly come to pass before all the seals are opened so that the book can be opened. Therefore, any theory that moves a seal to align with a trumpet or a vial will be proven wrong. What we read in Revelation after the 7th seal is opened is what is written INSIDE the book: the trumpet judgments are written inside the book.

6. Neither God nor Satan could legally take the book and open the seals. It would have to be a man from the human race. Further, it would have to be a man who could redeem mankind - a man who could escape death and rise again - and escape from hell.

7. There was a time when Jesus Christ was NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals. He BECAME worthy once He fulfilled what was required to redeem mankind.

lamad, any interpretation of Revelation, to be correct, has to follow the sequence of events in Ezekiel 38-39. Ezekiel 38-39 gives the outline.

Handmaid for Jesus · Apr 1, 2019

Douggg said:
lamad, any interpretation of Revelation, to be correct, has to follow the sequence of events in Ezekiel 38-39. Ezekiel 38-39 gives the outline.

They are related? :scratch:

I didn't connect that.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 1, 2019

Douggg said: ↑
lamad, any interpretation of Revelation, to be correct, has to follow the sequence of events in Ezekiel 38-39. Ezekiel 38-39 gives the outline.

That is correct.

Handmaid for Jesus said:
They are related? I didn't connect that.

Ezekiel and Revelation go together like white on rice...........

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

LittleLambofJesus said:
Note both Ezekiel and John get taken by Spirit, 1 to Jerusalem, and 1 to the wilderness.
Ezekiel 8:3
He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem,
to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy. [Revelation 17:3]

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 17:3
and he carried me away to a wilderness in the Spirit, and I saw a Woman sitting upon a scarlet-coloured beast, full of names of evil-speaking, having seven heads and ten horns, [Ezekiel 8:3]

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!
That's IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!

EZEKIEL AND REVELATION PARALLEL

1. THRONE VISION - (Rev 4./Ezek 1).
2. THE BOOK (Rev 5/Ezek 2-3)
3. THE PLAGUES (Rev 6:1-8/Ezek 5).
4. Slain Beneath the Altar (Rev. 6:9-11/Ezek. 6)
5. WRATH OF GOD (Rev 6:12-17/Ezek 7).
6. SEAL ON SAINTS' FOREHEADS (Rev 7/Ezek 9)
7. COALS FROM ALTAR (Rev. 8/Ezek 10).
8. NO MORE DELAY (Rev. 10:1-7/Ezek 12).
9. EATING THE BOOK (Rev 10:8-11/Ezek. 2)
11. MEASURING THE TEMPLE (Rev. 11:1-2/Ezek. 40-43)
11. JERUSALEM AND SODOM (Rev. 11:8/Ezek 16)
12. CUP OF WRATH (Rev. 14/Ezek. 23).
13. VINE OF THE LAND (Rev. 14:18-20/Ezek 15)
14. GREAT HARLOT (Rev 17-18/Ezek. 16, 23).
15. LAMENT OVER THE CITY (Rev. 18/Ezek 27)
16. SCAVENGER'S FEAST (Rev. 19/Ezek 39)
17. FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev 20:4-6/Ezek 37).
18 BATTLE WITH GOG AND MAGOG (Rev. 20:7-9/Ezek 38-39)
19. NEW JERUSALEM (Rev 21/Ezek 40-48)
20. RIVER OF LIFE (Rev 22/Ezek 47)

Douggg · Apr 1, 2019

Handmaid for Jesus said:
They are related? I didn't connect that.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon feast on the dead who try to make war of on Jesus, equating to Revelation 19:17-28... and Psalms 110:5-6

It is Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29, having returned to earth, and recounting the past 2000 years, about the house of Israel.

The 7 months and the 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9-16 contain everything that takes place from Revelation 6-19, which ends with Jesus's return.

Douggg · Apr 1, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
16. SCAVENGER'S FEAST (Rev. 19/Ezek 39)
17. FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev 20:4-6/Ezek 37).
18 BATTLE WITH GOG AND MAGOG (Rev. 20:7-9/Ezek 38-39)

Re-arrange and modify those to correspond to the sequence in Ezekiel 38-39.

Israel back in the land - Ezekiel 38 (where we are right now on the timeline)
then Gog/Magog - Ezekiel 38-39:4
then The 7 months and 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16, containing everything in Revelation 6-19
then The Armageddon feast - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 1, 2019

Douggg said:
Re-arrange and modify those to correspond to the sequence in Ezekiel 38-39.

Israel back in the land - Ezekiel 38 (where we are right now on the timeline)
then Gog/Magog - Ezekiel 38-39:4
then The 7 months and 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16, containing everything in Revelation 6-19
then The Armageddon feast - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

You have it backwards........Unless they are the same event.

Revelation 16:
14 For they are spirits of demons doing signs, which are going-out upon the kings of the whold home-land<3625>,
to-be-together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle of the Day, the Great, of the God the Almighty.
16 And they together-leading/mobilize/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Place, the being called to Hebrew Armageddwn<717>

Revelation 20:8
and he shall be coming out<1831> to deceive<4105> the nations, the ones in the Four Corners of the land, the Gog/gwg <1136> and Magog/magwg <3098>,
to be together-leading/mobilizing/sunagagein <4863> (5629) them into the Battle, of which the Number of them as the Sand<285> of the Se<2281>a.[Ezekiel 7:1-2]

Armageddon occurs where this Great City in Revelation is.......

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:
18 and they cried<2896>, observing the smoke of Her firing<4451>, saying, "What like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
"Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.

Revelation 19:
17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered<4863:! into the Supper<1173> of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zephaniah 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]

Armegeddon and Gog-magog same event?

I view them as the same event
15 vote(s)
21.7%
I view them as different events
43 vote(s)
62.3%
I am not sure
7 vote(s)
10.1%
Does it really matter?
4 vote(s)
5.8%

Douggg · Apr 1, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
You have it backwards........Unless they are the same event.

It is impossible for me to have it backwards. Revelation 20:8 and Ezekiel 38-39 are not the same event.

Ezekiel 38-39 is in order, exactly as I had written. And takes place a 1000 years before Revelation 20:8.

Here I will expand it....

Israel back in the land - Ezekiel 38 (where we are right now on the timeline)
then Gog/Magog - Ezekiel 38-39:4
then The 7 months and 7 years - Ezekiel 39:9-16, containing everything in Revelation 6-19
then The Armageddon feast - Ezekiel 39:17-20
Jesus returned - Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Jesus brings all the Jews back to Israel - Ezekiel 39:29, Matthew 24:31

Jesus then reigns and rules 1000 years, from Jerusalem
Then at the end of the 1000 years, one last rebellion by Satan, including the prior Gog/Magog nations.

Axiom on the book of Revelation

Lamad

Jesus I Trust In You

kewlness

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Lamad

You can't steal my joy

Active Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

You can't steal my joy

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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