Walk through if I have it wrong, Ezekiel 38-39

keras

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Keras, your heart is not in heaven.
That is the final nail in the coffin of your credibility.

Resorting to personal accusations, just shows your inability to prove and the complete lack of Biblical support for, your beliefs.
Dougg and all here that have been deceived by false teachings; many have overcome them, as I have and have passed into the Light of true understanding of the wonderful Plans God does have for His people.
 
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Douggg

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That is the final nail in the coffin of your credibility.

Resorting to personal accusations, just shows your inability to prove and the complete lack of Biblical support for, your beliefs.
Dougg and all here that have been deceived by false teachings; many have overcome them, as I have and have passed into the Light of true understanding of the wonderful Plans God does have for His people.
Keras, how can you say your heart is in heaven when you say that you are not ever going to heaven, when the resurrection/rapture takes place?

Where your treasure is, there also will be your heart. Jesus himself saying that (paraphrased). How is that not biblical support for my position?

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
 
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keras

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Keras, how can you say your heart is in heaven when you say that you are not ever going to heaven, when the resurrection/rapture takes place?

Where your treasure is, there also will be your heart. Jesus himself saying that (paraphrased). How is that not biblical support for my position?

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Thinking that this scripture means a physical, or even spiritual existence for the Lord's people in heaven, is where you and all the 'rapture' believers go wrong.
Verses like; our citizenship is in heaven and Paul saying: I would rather be with the Lord..... do not say that we will ever actually go there. In 5 verses, Jesus tells us for humans; going to heaven is impossible.

I assume the 'resurrection/rapture' you refer to is what is prophesied in 1 Thess 4:17.
Read properly and carefully, that tells us when Jesus comes down from heaven, He will gather His own to Him, so we faithful Christians, all who have passed thru the testing times prior to His Return, will be with Him for His Millennium reign on earth. Exactly as Matthew 24:30-31 says.
After that comes the GWTJudgment and God and therefore heaven, comes to the earth for Eternity.

It will be far better for you and all those who grip onto a removal from the earth, to change your beliefs to what the Prophets actually tell us; that is: to stand firm in our faith thru all that must happen and endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10 +
 
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Douggg

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It will be far better for you and all those who grip onto a removal from the earth, to change your beliefs to what the Prophets actually tell us; that is: to stand firm in our faith thru all that must happen and endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10 +
No, there is no way I would go to any train of thought that contradicts when Jesus comes for believers who are looking for Him in the rapture go to heaven, as the great tribulation takes place here on earth.

And I would not agree with any scenario that doesn't realize that the Antichrist will be perceived by the Jews as their messiah, hoped for King of Israel. Which is the big flaw in your scenario.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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I started this thread where you can tell me why I am wrong...

Walk through if I have it wrong, Ezekiel 38-39[/QUOTE

We have different understanding of scripture I have a historic understanding, prophecy is history in advance and history is prophecy fulfilled, where as your view is dispensationalism.

Because your theology is based on the gap theory, until you realize that there is no gap then we have no common ground to discuss.

Jesus Said
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments
unless you are a Sabbath keeper, 4th commandment, does this IF apply?

Hebrews 13:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
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Douggg

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My view is futurism. I am not a dispensationalist. Dispensationalism is a sub sect of futurism. I don't want to get started down that road if you don't mind.

I accept that you consider yourself a historicist. Thanks for sharing it.
 
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Douggg

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I assume the 'resurrection/rapture' you refer to is what is prophesied in 1 Thess 4:17.
Read properly and carefully, that tells us when Jesus comes down from heaven, He will gather His own to Him,
Jesus gathers the resurrected and raptured to Him in the air.... not here on earth. Nor to descend at that time back down to earth.

It makes no sense to me to cram a billion persons into a small region, like Israel, here on earth. Think about the sewage problems.

Maybe Jesus will give us a choice of what part of the world we will want to live when the kingdom of God is brought here to earth.
 
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keras

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Jesus gathers the resurrected and raptured to Him in the air.... not here on earth. Nor to descend at that time back down to earth.
Yes His faithful people will travel thru the clouds, to where Jesus is. Matthew 24:30-31
But your supposition that we go to heaven, is wrong and contradicts much scripture.
It makes no sense to me to cram a billion persons into a small region, like Israel, here on earth. Think about the sewage problems.
Another demonstration of your failure to read the Prophetic Word.
The entire holy Land is all that area from the Nile to the Euphrates and many prophesies say how the Lord will bless the Land with rain, it will become like the garden of Eden again.
Maybe Jesus will give us a choice of what part of the world we will want to live when the kingdom of God is brought here to earth.
Maybe, during the Millennium, this could be the case, but for the period before Jesus Returns, we will all live in the holy Land. We have to, because all the rest of the world will be ruled by the Anti-Christ and everyone will have to take his mark, or be killed.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Yes His faithful people will travel thru the clouds, to where Jesus is. Matthew 24:30-31
But your supposition that we go to heaven, is wrong and contradicts much scripture.
Amen and HalleluYAH ! MARANANTHA! Come Quickly for Your People ! JESUS MESSIAH !
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Maybe, during the Millennium, this could be the case, but for the period before Jesus Returns, we will all live in the holy Land. We have to, because all the rest of the world will be ruled by the Anti-Christ and everyone will have to take his mark, or be killed.
Not looking deep, nor to get 'deep', but I think
the whole world already is ruled by hasatan (Ephesians 2), Revelation, Galatians.

When the last martyr dies (is executed) for his faith in Jesus, Yahweh says He will then execute His Vengeance at once/quickly/ then.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Jesus gathers the resurrected and raptured to Him in the air.... not here on earth. Nor to descend at that time back down to earth.

It makes no sense to me to cram a billion persons into a small region, like Israel, here on earth. Think about the sewage problems.

Maybe Jesus will give us a choice of what part of the world we will want to live when the kingdom of God is brought here to earth.
Tangent to lighten up a little,
and another point of view also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how...lion+people+need+?+&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b
and
what makes you think there will be a billion people ?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Not looking deep, nor to get 'deep', but I think
the whole world already is ruled by hasatan (Ephesians 2), Revelation, Galatians.

When the last martyr dies (is executed) for his faith in Jesus, Yahweh says He will then execute His Vengeance at once/quickly/ then.
How many martyrs were killed after the ascension of Jesus and Pentecost over the next 40yrs before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad?

James 5:6
Ye condemn, ye Murder <5407> the Righteous-One, not He is resisting to Ye.

Act 12:1
1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched out his hand to harass some from the church.
2 Then he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
3And because he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to seize Peter also. Now it was during the Days of Unleavened Bread.

Peter and Paul both showed their deaths were near:

2 peter 1:14
Having known that speedily is the putting off of the booth<4638> of me,
according as the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, makes evident to me.
2 Timothy 4:6
For I am already being poured out and the time of the my loosing<359> is come.
7 The ideal contest I have contested, the run/race I have finished, the faith I have kept:


Revelation 9:21
And not they reform out of the Murders<5408> of them, nor out from their sorceries,...........

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS 1ST CENTURY iSRAEL, JUDEA AND JERUSALEM

Matthew 24:6
Ye shall be being about yet to be hearing battles and tidings of battles<4171>.
Be seeing no! be being frightened<2360> for is binding to be becoming,
but not yet is the end<5056>.

Mark 13:7
Whenever yet ye should be hearing battles and tidings of battles<4171>,
be seeing no! to be being frightened<2360>, for is binding to be becoming,
but not yet the end.

Luke 21:9
Whenever yet ye should be hearing battles<4171> and tumults<181>,
no be being dismayed<4422> for is binding these to be becoming first
but not immediately<2112> the end.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
 
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Douggg

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Tangent to lighten up a little,
and another point of view also.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+much+space+does+a+billion+people+need+?+&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b
and
what makes you think there will be a billion people ?
I don't know that it will be a billion people, exactly.

But from what is written in Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

On the other side of the argument....

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

________________________________________________________________________________


So how many people have lived upon earth to this point in time? 107 billion is the estimate.

So a billion Christians out of 107 billion. Seems to be reasonable to me, to meet both conditions of Revelation 7:9 and Matthew 7:13-14.
 
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DavidPT

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I don't know that it will be a billion people, exactly.

But from what is written in Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

On the other side of the argument....

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

________________________________________________________________________________


So how many people have lived upon earth to this point in time? 107 billion is the estimate.

So a billion Christians out of 107 billion. Seems to be reasonable to me, to meet both conditions of Revelation 7:9 and Matthew 7:13-14.

I misunderstood your post so deleted my response. For some stupid reason I thought you were meaning presently, but now see you were meaning since the beginning of time. Don't know how that went over my head the first time around?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I don't know that it will be a billion people, exactly.

But from what is written in Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

On the other side of the argument....

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Only those of the Faith of Jesus..............

Isaiah 43:19
Behold, I will do a new thing; now shall it spring forth; shall ye not know it?
I will even make a Way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
John 14:6
Jesus is saying to him: "I am the Way and the Truth, and the Life. No one is coming toward the Father except thru Me".
Acts 6:7
Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Acts 9:2
1 But Saul, still breathing threats and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, 2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
===========================

Rev 7:9
After these things I looked, and behold, a vast throng which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Revelation 17:
15 And He is saying to me "These the Waters which thou saw, where the harlot is sitting, are peoples and multitudes<3793> are being, and nations and tongues.
16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the harlot,
and shall be making Her desolate<2049> and naked,

They appear to be particularly elated, joyful, excited and thrilled concerning the destruction of the Great harlot:

Rev 19:
1 After these I hear as a great sound of a vast throng in the heaven, saying,
HalleluYah!
the salvation and the glory and the honor, and the power of our God;
3 And a second time they have declared<4483> ‘HalleluYah!
and the smoke of Her is ascending into the ages of the ages!"
6 And I hear as sound of a vast throng and as a sound of many waters and as sound of strong thunders, strong saying:
"HalleluYah!
that reigns Lord the God *of-us, the Almighty.

https://israelstudycenter.com/hebrew-hallelujah/
“Hallelu” (הללו) and “Yah” (יה).


............................
 
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