Isaiah 40:22 -- "Globe of the Earth"

SeventyOne · Mar 25, 2019

Lost4words said:
I know, but it's clearly been photoshopped my friend.

I hope one day you have a moment of clarity concerning these things.

SeventyOne · Mar 25, 2019

Strathos said:
Still waiting for you to explain those pictures of curvature in the same images with straight airplane wings...

Had any of you ever looked at anything I said on the array of recent FE threads with any sort of intellectual curiosity, you'd know my answer to that already.

Good news though, I have yet another person for you all to immediately dismiss and mock. He's a PhD in Spectroscopy (light, basically) who set out a bit over a year ago to disprove flat earth and, unsurprisingly, has not been able to do so. Just heard an interview with him recently where he states he's not ready to say he's a flat-earther quite yet, but he does conclude his light experiments disprove the requirements of the ball as we are told it must exist. Some of his work is on his channel, Dr John D. : Dr John D.

Strathos · Mar 25, 2019

'I already answered that' (without saying what the answer is or even where to find it) plus a deflection.

That's pretty much what was expected.

SeventyOne · Mar 25, 2019

Strathos said:
'I already answered that' (without saying what the answer is or even where to find it) plus a deflection.

That's pretty much what was expected.

And so was your response to it, because that's the standard response around here whenever a mocker isn't spoon-fed its meal. I've been quite open in letting people know that you all no longer deserve any further information from me on this topic, but you already know this. So, please spare me the fake outrage.

Strathos · Mar 25, 2019

SeventyOne said:
And so was your response to it, because that's the standard response around here whenever a mocker isn't spoon-fed its meal. I've been quite open in letting people know that you all no longer deserve any further information from me on this topic, but you already know this. So, please spare me the fake outrage.

'You're all wrong but you don't deserve to be told why, and how dare you expect me to actually answer your questions!'

Lost4words · Mar 25, 2019

SeventyOne said:
I hope one day you have a moment of clarity concerning these things.

Its flat earth believers that are lost in the fog.

RealityCheck01 · Mar 25, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
Sounds like an excuse...and one you have zero evidence for, ...

Actually real world facts, FEZZILLA. Isaiah was an 8th-century BC Jew writing about a Jewish world which at the time was thought to be a disk floating in water. This is consistent with the ideas of other people at the time and the Torah (Genesis, etc.).

Your OP repeated here shows that the Christian Church distorted what Isaiah wrote in the 8th-century BC to fit the Greek view of the world as a sphere.

A bit of history for you: No one thought the world was a sphere until the Greeks in maybe the 4th-century BC. Spherical Earth - Hebrew Bible

The Hebrew Bible imagined a three-part world, with the heavens (shamayim) above, Earth (eres) in the middle, and the underworld (sheol) below.[35] After the 4th century BC this was gradually replaced by a Greek scientific cosmology of a spherical Earth surrounded by multiple concentric heavens.[36]

This is 400 years after Isaiah. Over 800 years after Isaiah, the early Christians imposed their Greek ideas on the Jewish world.

I have the Bible as evidence :doh:

. Genesis is Hebrew cosmology where a water filled universe is separated into disk of Earth with a firmament with stars etc. embedded in it: Genesis creation narrative

The heavens and the earth is a set phrase meaning "everything", i.e., the cosmos. This was made up of three levels, the habitable earth in the middle, the heavens above, and an underworld below, all surrounded by a watery "ocean" of chaos as the Babylonian Tiamat.[39] The Earth itself was a flat disc, surrounded by mountains or sea. Above it was the firmament, a transparent but solid dome resting on the mountains, allowing men to see the blue of the waters above, with "windows" to allow the rain to enter, and containing the Sun, Moon and stars. The waters extended below the Earth, which rested on pillars sunk in the waters, and in the underworld was Sheol, the abode of the dead.[40]

RealityCheck01 · Mar 25, 2019

SeventyOne said:
It is quite flat and beautiful...

It is quite simply an image from an unknown source with possibe edits, SeventyOne.

But take a close look at that image. There is a weather system. These are typically hundreds of km across. On that scale, the curvature of the Earth is small. Even so "quite flat" is obviously wrong. The horizon in that image curves!

It looks like a cropped image from the International Space Station of which there are many showing the curvature of the Earth. Google "Images for the international space station". Images of the ISS from incoming and leaving spacecraft nearly always include the curved horizon of the Earth.
Seeing a curved Earth is not the only way to debunk modern Flat Earth stupidity, e.g. fly east until you return to your starting point and double-check by flying north until you return to your starting point - the Earth is spherical.

FEZZILLA · Mar 26, 2019

RealityCheck01 said:
Actually real world facts, FEZZILLA. Isaiah was an 8th-century BC Jew writing about a Jewish world which at the time was thought to be a disk floating in water. This is consistent with the ideas of other people at the time and the Torah (Genesis, etc.).

Your OP repeated here shows that the Christian Church distorted what Isaiah wrote in the 8th-century BC to fit the Greek view of the world as a sphere.

A bit of history for you: No one thought the world was a sphere until the Greeks in maybe the 4th-century BC. Spherical Earth - Hebrew Bible

This is 400 years after Isaiah. Over 800 years after Isaiah, the early Christians imposed their Greek ideas on the Jewish world.

I have the Bible as evidence . Genesis is Hebrew cosmology where a water filled universe is separated into disk of Earth with a firmament with stars etc. embedded in it: Genesis creation narrative

I've quoted a whole slew of globe earth verses from the Bible. I'd say your liberal scholars are wrong. The OT of the Bible is older than the first Greek thought about the spherical earth.

Even when we look at the latest globe earth verse in the Bible its still older than the first Greek though about the spherical earth.

Jeremiah 51:15,

"Yea euen the Lorde of hostes, that wyth his power made the earthe, with hys wysedome prepared the rounde worlde, and with his discrecyon spred oute the heauens" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Reads a lot like Isaiah 40:22.

Furthermore., Jesus, Who is God incarnate, says the earth is a globe.

Matthew 24:14

"And this good news of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in the whole habitable globe for a witness to all nations: and then shall the end come" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Latin Vulgate: "et praedicabitur hoc evangelium regni in universo orbe in testimonium omnibus gentibus et tunc veniet consummatio"

Word: Orbe, from G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē

The phrase "universo orbe" means the whole globe.

Latin Definition of Orbis
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...51-If5Im9h6QPHIcDrTloelz7Sg_G_aX6BDjtPOOl2P5E

The phrase "universo orbe" is applied to the whole world which can also be expressed as "orbis terrarum" which means "world globe" in Latin.
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/latin-word-for-dceb55eeed07f166ecd8db67fe274be446d4c2ee.html

The Greek word Jesus used in the verse is G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē

"οἰκουμένη oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication, of G1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:—earth, world."

The terrene part of the globe is the land occupied by its inhabitants. Sometimes oikouménē only refers to a region, like the Roman Empire. Matthew 24:14 is in context with the whole earth and its inhabitants. G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl.

The link below is a history of the word oikouménē
Oikuomene

RealityCheck01 · Mar 28, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
I've quoted a whole slew of globe earth verses from the Bible...

Yes the Bible is much more the one verse this thread is about!
Isaiah 40:22 is about a flat world because that was the belief in the 8th century and what Isaiah wrote.
"[It is] he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;" (American Standard Version).

Isaiah was an 8th-century BC Jew writing about a Jewish world which at the time was thought to be a disk floating in water.

Genesis [the direct word of God!] is Hebrew cosmology where a water filled universe is separated into disk of Earth with a firmament with stars etc. embedded in it: Genesis creation narrative

You are giving evidence that later authors and especially their translators believed in the Greek spherical world.

Cherry picking different translations does not make credible evidence.
Jeremiah 51:15 is "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding hath he stretched out the heavens:" (American Standard Version).
Matthew 24:14 is "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come." (American Standard Version).

This is the Matthew Bible you use for the Jeremiah verse. This is the Julia E. Smith Parker Translation you use for the Mathew verse.

Isaiah 40:22 says circle which in English is a 2D objects - a 3D "circle" is called a sphere or ball! Translators of the verse know this as you show in the OP with "Here is the same verse from the 4th century Latin Vulgate" and What does gyrus mean in Latin? = round, circle, orbit, course, gyration, curve, ring, coil, cycle.

What does orbis mean in Latin? = orbit, world, orb, disk, circle, country, roll, circuit, coil, round, disc, circumference. ring, rotundity, routine, rotation, region. Add "universo" and we have the whole orbit, world, orb, circle, etc.

dad · Mar 29, 2019

SeventyOne said:
Had any of you ever looked at anything I said on the array of recent FE threads with any sort of intellectual curiosity, you'd know my answer to that already.

Good news though, I have yet another person for you all to immediately dismiss and mock. He's a PhD in Spectroscopy (light, basically) who set out a bit over a year ago to disprove flat earth and, unsurprisingly, has not been able to do so. Just heard an interview with him recently where he states he's not ready to say he's a flat-earther quite yet, but he does conclude his light experiments disprove the requirements of the ball as we are told it must exist. Some of his work is on his channel, Dr John D. : Dr John D.

Do we really need a PHD to know the earth is not flat? How about all the airplanes and satellites going round and round the world?

FEZZILLA · Mar 29, 2019

RealityCheck01 said:
Yes the Bible is much more the one verse this thread is about!
Isaiah 40:22 is about a flat world because that was the belief in the 8th century and what Isaiah wrote.
"[It is] he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;" (American Standard Version).

Isaiah was an 8th-century BC Jew writing about a Jewish world which at the time was thought to be a disk floating in water.

Genesis [the direct word of God!] is Hebrew cosmology where a water filled universe is separated into disk of Earth with a firmament with stars etc. embedded in it: Genesis creation narrative

You are giving evidence that later authors and especially their translators believed in the Greek spherical world.

Cherry picking different translations does not make credible evidence.
Jeremiah 51:15 is "He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding hath he stretched out the heavens:" (American Standard Version).
Matthew 24:14 is "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come." (American Standard Version).

This is the Matthew Bible you use for the Jeremiah verse. This is the Julia E. Smith Parker Translation you use for the Mathew verse.

Isaiah 40:22 says circle which in English is a 2D objects - a 3D "circle" is called a sphere or ball! Translators of the verse know this as you show in the OP with "Here is the same verse from the 4th century Latin Vulgate" and What does gyrus mean in Latin? = round, circle, orbit, course, gyration, curve, ring, coil, cycle.

What does orbis mean in Latin? = orbit, world, orb, disk, circle, country, roll, circuit, coil, round, disc, circumference. ring, rotundity, routine, rotation, region. Add "universo" and we have the whole orbit, world, orb, circle, etc.

Its amazing how you are unable to understand any of this but invent ways to try and twist it. The attempt to twist it automatically proves you are unable to defend flat earth.

First of all, Isaiah 40:22 is prophecy and it teaches sphere earth as I have proven many times on this topic. Secondly, orb means globe. Here is one example from the Matthew's Bible (the most overall accurate English translation).

Psalm 18:15,

"The sprynges of waters were sene, and the foundacyons of the rounde worlde were discouered at thy chidynge (O Lorde) at the blastynge and breth of thy displeasures" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

The phrase translated "round world" in this verse is the Hebrew word H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl.

Latin Vulgate: "et apparuerunt fontes aquarum et revelata sunt fundamenta orbis terrarum ab increpatione tua Domine ab inspiratione spiritus irae tuae"

The phrase "orbis terrarum" is also translated from H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl.

Latin Definition of Orbis
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...r9YcE2nOCLF6ewv3U1NBB0egeHtsipC8YrIg2SY7Hxw_Q

Latin Definition of orbis terrarum
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...9b92a191d7c9676387beb1ef9051b619e16b7650.html

How to say "world globe" in Latin
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/latin-word-for-dceb55eeed07f166ecd8db67fe274be446d4c2ee.html

And again, I will provide 4 Hebrew lexicons which prove the Matthew's Bible and the 1876 Julia Smith Bible have it translated correctly whereas the American Standard Version has it wrong.

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl,

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible. H8398

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].

The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

"This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)".

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."
___________________________________________
Breakdown of Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl,

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"

Gesenius': ",the habitable globe,"

TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth"<--AND-->"In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."

New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."

Lost4words · Mar 30, 2019

If the earth is flat then pluto has a tail!

Freodin · Mar 31, 2019

dad said:
Do we really need a PHD to know the earth is not flat? How about all the airplanes and satellites going round and round the world?

It was flat in a different state!!!!!

Strathos · Mar 31, 2019

Freodin said:
It was flat in a different state!!!!!

Alabama, probably.

dad · Mar 31, 2019

Freodin said:
It was flat in a different state!!!!!

No. Not according to the bible, or science, or...anything.

Lost4words · Mar 31, 2019

Fat earth, 6k earth, fake moon landings, Twin towers 9/11, young earth etc etc. One guy believes in one, he will believe in them all. Even tooth fairies!

lasthero · Mar 31, 2019

dad said:
Do we really need a PHD to know the earth is not flat? How about all the airplanes and satellites going round and round the world?

Please stop saying things I agree with. It makes me feel dirty.

FEZZILLA · Apr 5, 2019

Lost4words said:
Fat earth, 6k earth, fake moon landings, Twin towers 9/11, young earth etc etc. One guy believes in one, he will believe in them all. Even tooth fairies!

Not true. I'm a Young Earth Creationist and I know we landed on the moon 6 times. I know 9/11 happened and can even supply the passage from the Qur'an which was used to inspire the attack as well as the edition of the Noble Qur'an that has the call for jihad in it. I know the earth is round and am not so gullible to fall for flat earth. I do not believe in the tooth fairy.

You could have made a more accurate statement by saying that anyone who follows the Illuminati conspiracy theory will end up denying the 9/11 attacks and/or will claim Israei fighter jets traveled across the Atlantic without an aircraft carrier and fired missiles at the WTC. They will deny the moon landings, the Holocaust, and once they deny all that then comes the shape of the earth which they say is flat.

I've been following the behaviors of conspiracy theorists for years and they will believe absolutely anything that is not true. They are systematically brainwashed to deny all facts.

Young Earth Creationists are not anti-science. We don't deny the Holocaust, 9-11 attacks, round shape of the earth etc. YEC is not conspiracy theory. Flat earthers who claim to be YEC cannot find a single YEC scientist to agree with anything they say. Its also YEC doing the most to flatten the flat earth conspiracy theory which is the same conspiracy as the Illuminati conspiracy which subliminally teaches the Final Solution for the Jews. The ugly rise of antisemitism begins with the acceptance of the Illuminati conspiracy theory. From their, as I have seen all stages of the very complete system of brainwashing, the conspiracy believer will end up believing anything.

Then there is the reality that all this insanity is war propaganda from Islamic jihadists who find their market place to push their evil among the radical leftists who will believe anything that shows hatred for Christians and Jews.

Google the Ansar.

lasthero · Apr 5, 2019

FEZZILLA said:
Flat earthers who claim to be YEC cannot find a single YEC scientist to agree with anything they say.

There’s a reason for that, but it’s probably not the one you think.

FEZZILLA said:
Its also YEC doing the most to flatten the flat earth conspiracy theory

Are they? I’m only aware of one YEC who’s even openly addressed it, Kent Hovind, and he hasn’t devoted any real time to it.

FEZZILLA said:
YEC is not conspiracy theory.

I’ll agree it isn’t necessarily, but there are certainly a lot of YECs who belvieve that scientists are knowingly and deliberately conspiring to hide the truth of the Bible. Also, while I have come across the occasional flat earther who isn’t religious, the vast majority clearly are, and tend to be of the YEC variety.

Isaiah 40:22 -- "Globe of the Earth"

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