Were Adam and Eve really deceived?

derpytia said:

But as Christians we know what is right from wrong and yet we still sin despite knowing that. Are we still deceived then or is it more of a bad habit sort of thing?

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Knowing right from wrong is not as informative as knowing why it is right and why it is wrong. That describes the ignorance wherein temptation can still be productive despite knowing what is right and wrong. It's only till we realize the harm that we do to others that we feel sorrow and truly regret the wrong that we do. Without love there can be no repentance. If we have no love then we do not even care that we hurt others.

So it's actually love that causes us to act responsibly through caring how our actions affect others. Love others as you would want to be loved. Anything that does to others what we would not want done to us is sin, but it is love that fulfills the law. God is love.

Can you see where Eve did something to somebody that she wouldn't want done to her?

derpytia said:

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

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The fruit looked good to them. They wanted to be like God. The pride that the serpent stimulated was their pride. It reminds me of James 1:14, which I 'd think would apply to our first parents as well:
"...but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed."

childeye 2 said:

Knowing right from wrong is not as informative as knowing why it is right and why it is wrong. That describes the ignorance wherein temptation can still be productive despite knowing what is right and wrong. It's only till we realize the harm that we do to others that we feel sorrow and truly regret the wrong that we do. Without love there can be no repentance. If we have no love then we do not even care that we hurt others.

So it's actually love that causes us to act responsibly through caring how our actions affect others. Love others as you would want to be loved. Anything that does to others what we would not want done to us is sin, but it is love that fulfills the law. God is love.

Can you see where Eve did something to somebody that she wouldn't want done to her?

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Yes, Adam & Eve were obviously not yet at the point where they recognized their need for God, for one thing, but most importantly they had not come to love Him with their whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. That probably came later. Because here, in this very non-Edenic world, we have the opportunity to learn and to cultivate both, to learn of our need and to come to love, with the help of grace.

derpytia said:

Vanity is considered a sin of pride in some Christian teachings. If Eve had not sinned up until that point, how could she have vanity? Or did Eve have a sinful heart that simply hadn't been appealed to yet?

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Vanity occurs when we compare ourselves to others and are either lifted up or put down in comparison. So it works two ways. I do not view vanity as just a sin, but rather the sin that begets all sins.

All higher intellects under God are subject to vanity when they come into knowledge. This is a condition inherent in the creature because life has been given to earth and the creature does not comprehend God's worth nor it's own worth without some sort of context. It was in this innocence that Satan introduced the suggestion that Eve was not all she could be while also subtly suggesting that God was not being truthful.

Therefore in whatever measure we take God for granted in what He has given us, we become vain accordingly.

derpytia said:

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

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Eve was deceived by satan and sinned. (confirming the OT with the NT)

But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

Adam listened to his wife (Eve) and submitted to her, rather than listening to God and submitting to Him.

To Adam He [God] said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. Genesis 3:17

Adam and Eve had separate yet different choices they each made. Both were disobedience to God. Disobedience to God is sin.

God Bless.

derpytia said:

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

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God created Adam sinless but with a nature that would want to sin if given a law forbidding it. So Adam freely chose what he wanted most when he sinned. And therefore incurred the guilt and reaped the consequences.

fhansen said:

Yes, Adam & Eve were obviously not yet at the point where they recognized their need for God, for one thing, but most importantly they had not come to love Him with their whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. That probably came later. Because here, in this very non-Edenic world, we have the opportunity to learn and to cultivate both, to learn of our need and to come to love, with the help of grace.

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I believe that when God conceived of time and space and His true Image being introduced into the midst of the darkness of this temporal world, He was revealing Who He is and quickening who we are.

childeye 2 said:

I believe that when God conceived of time and space and His true Image being introduced into the midst of the darkness of this temporal world, He was revealing Who He is and quickening who we are.

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Are you speaking of the advent of Christ? Or earlier, at creation? In any case when the time was ripe in human history Jesus certainly revealed the authentic face of God to the fullest extent, to a degree that had never been done before.

david shelby said:

Per Paul's interpretation, Eve alone was deceived, and Adam was just hen-pecked.

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No scholar believes Paul actually wrote 1 Timothy, but the author of 1 Timothy doesn't even think Adam sinned at all (or at least not intentionally). 1 Timothy tries to argue that that women are unfit for teaching because Eve (who serves as a model for women according to 1 Timothy) was deceived. If Adam deliberately disobeyed God, as many have suggested, the argument in 1 Timothy would make no sense. If anything, it would suggest, men, not women, are not fit to hold leadership in the church.

There were a lot of factors at play, but it didn't seem that they would have disobeyed without the serpent's prompting. After being deceived, Eve saw that the tree and its fruit were pleasing to the eye. I would assume that she'd already seen this particular tree if she knew about it, so she already knew that it was pleasing to the eye, but didn't choose to eat of it until someone outside of herself suggested it to her. While this doesn't absolve her (or Adam) of guilt, it should show us how willing they were- in spite of the appearances of the tree and its fruit- to listen to God before being tempted.

derpytia said:

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

Click to expand...

The Bible says Eve was deceived and not Adam.

"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
(1 Timothy 2:14).

This leads me to believe that Eve more than likely never heard directly from God of the command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If so, then she would have had to rely upon Adam by faith in what Adam said about God (in regards to the command). Adam was also the authority head of the relationship. He was not dictator, but he was supposed to be the head of the home or household. He was supposed to love her as a part of himself, but he was the authority of the home as Adam was in authority to God. This is why I believe she was deceived. She wanted to get out from under two authorities: Both the authority of God, and her husband by calling the shots in eating of the wrong tree (and listening to the serpent, i.e. the enemy).

Deception is not something that was unescapable.
She allowed herself to be deceived based upon what she desired (i.e. the lust of the flesh after the fruit). She still had free will to obey God and not be deceived by the serpent. But she believed the serpent's lie and was deceived by the serpent. Adam was not deceived by the serpent's lie directly, but he was enticed by his love for his wife to eat of it (because he wanted to please her).

Now, what is really a mind bender is: Why did GOD allow for a soul (like Adam) who would disobey when He could have chosen another that could obey?
For God could have chosen a soul through out all of humanity that could have passed the test. If not, then it is suggesting that the test was not honest and there was no way they could have ever obeyed. For they had free will and they could have equally obeyed and done good. But again, why did GOD sovereignly choose the first two souls of mankind to be the kind of souls that would disobey him of their own free will?

I believe that because GOD wanted to show mankind's need for him.
That with "free will" there is the potential for mankind to fail and to fall (generally speaking of all of mankind). God allowed man to fail of his own free will so that He could send the second Adam (which would be the Son of God, second person of the Trinity) to save us. God the Father wanted to show just how much He loved us by sending His Son Jesus Christ to save us from ourselves and our own rule or reign or way of doing things. God wanted that relationship built upon true love and not something that was forced. This can only be if God gets the sin problem out of the way to begin with (Which is what we see in Biblical History up until now). For there will be a time where there will be no more pain, death, disease, sorrow, etc. Only those who truly love GOD of their own free will by abiding by the enabling of GOD living in them and walking with them can they truly love GOD and others. Man on his own was never something that was meant to be a part of God's plan. GOD wanted that relationship and He wanted to show just how much He loves us.

derpytia said:

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

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They chose to disobey. If you believe that drinking water is a sin and you drink the water, you are being willfully disobedient. Whether drinking water was a sin or not made it so in the act of disobedience. Only God The Father Knows the future.

derpytia said:

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

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Sounds like a great opportunity for some Bible study! Just where do "a fair amount of Christians" get the concept of deception anyway?

• Genesis 3:1- The creature that tempted Eve is called "crafty". Thie Hebrew word is used 11 times in the Hebrew scriptures and has negative and positive uses: "crafty" and "prudent". The point of this word is the application of knowledge and insight. Prudence is wisely applied insight. Craftiness is when insight is used to harm another for your own advantage. The nachash (serpent) has inside knowledge and is intentionally misleading Eve who was NOT present when Yahweh instructed Adam regarding the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. (Gen. 2:15-17)
  
  
• Genesis 3:2-3 - Eve had heard from Adam the command not to eat and had even added to it. She has the basic knowledge of what had been commanded.
  
  
• Genesis 3:1,4-5 - The nachash intentionally told Eve partial truths and lies in order to get his desired end. He first asks an intentionally wrong question that gives the impression that God is an unloving ogre. Then he responds to Eve's answer by
  • contradicting Yahweh's pronouncement about death,
  • implicating Yahweh with impure motives
  • indicating that eating the fruit will make the humans like elohim (spiritual beings, such as himself) who do have knowledge of good and evil.
• Genesis 3:12 - Adam knew where the fruit was from, but blames Eve, not the serpent.
  By blaming "the woman you gave me", Adam is calling Yahweh's goodness into question. Self-justification is one of the first results of the knowledge of good and evil...when you know that you have committed evil.
  
  
• Genesis 3:13-14 - Eve indicates to Yahweh that she was deceived/beguiled by the nachash (serpent) and Yahweh holds the nachash responsible for the deception. The text does not indicate that Eve's blameshifting is unfounded. Ultimately, the serpent's head will be crushed.
  
  
• Genesis 3:16-19 - Adam & Eve were certainly responsible for their own actions and lack of trust. No question, deception does not get you off the hook for the decisions you make, although it is a mitigating factor in the judgement: the nachash will be crushed, the Seed of the Woman will be wounded.
  
  
• John 8:44 - Jesus notes the nachash and his human "seed" are liars from the beginning
  The words the serpent spoke were intended to deceive, coming from a deceiver, and they worked!
  
  
• 2 Corinthians 11:3 - Paul recognizes that deception creates the opportunity for lack of trusting obedience and uses Eve and the serpent as the model.
  
  
• 2 Timothy 2:14 - Paul uses Eve's deception as the grounds of why men are to maintain a leadership role. Adam's sin was not out of deception, but something else. Eve was beguiled, Adam chose. Eve assumed an authority role and Adam allowed it. Setting aside discussions of the roles of men and women in the church, the point here is that Paul, a first century Pharisaic Jew, assumed Eve's deception. The greek word Paul uses appears only 3 times in the N.T. and has the sense of "leading into error" by another (in James, the "other" is your own self-righteousness").

Conclusion: the Bible certainly and consistently depicts Eve as being deceived by a malicious, master deceiver. Adam is never pictured this way making him more, not less, guilty. Their lack of trust in Yahweh is at the heart of all sin and death. All blessing and joy comes from trusting in Yahweh and living according to his standard of good, especially in personal trust in who the Son is and what he has accomplished.

derpytia said:

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

1. Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
2. If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
3. How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
4. Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

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To answer the resulting load of questions (in order):

1. Eve was deceived, Adam was not (2 Timothy 2:14). However, it was through Adam's disobedience that death came (Romans 5:19)
   
   
2. This question is a moot point since it is a hypothetical and not part of the story.
   
   
3. The New Testament authors are clear and consistent that we are both tempted by outside influences AND we choose to give in. Temptation is not a sin (Hebrews 4:15) giving in is (James 1:14-15). We are to guard ourselves from temptation (1 Corinthians 10:13) trusting that resisting it is possible in Christ. Satan and his minions are pictured as having schemes that we have to guard against (Eph. 6:11, 2 Corinthians 2:11).
   
   
4. While "perfect" is a slippery word, no one is presented as being "perfect' except Yahweh. Creation is called "good" and "very good", and yet, Adam and Eve were to extend the beauty and order of the garden into the surrounding wilderness (Genesis 1:28). God is not capable of evil or even of being tempted (James 1:13). Yahweh is complete, lacking nothing, self existent. Everything else depends on him and so is not perfect by definition. God doesn't even 'trust' his angelic servants and charges them with error. (Job 4:18-19).

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To the OP I think its a combination of the two. But honestly given that Satan will deceive the whole world in the end of days, see Matthew 24:24, and that Adam and Eve were the whole world at that point I don't see how it's impossible.

derpytia said:

But I'm wondering where that pride even came from? Before this, they had not sinned at all. Pride is a sinful state of being and if they had pride in their hearts then God would have stayed away from them because He is Holy and cannot abide by sin.

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In the story, the only command is "don't eat the fruit from that tree". There were no other commands and additionally, no knowledge of good and evil to evaluate their own hearts. There is no talk of pride, vanity, etc. Those aren't yet part of the story until trust is broken by the act of distrust: eating the fruit.

david shelby said:

Per Paul's interpretation, Eve alone was deceived, and Adam was just hen-pecked.

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Actually.... I think that that that is a pretty good analysis.........

You might rather like the insights quoted in posts #1 and 2 here:
A message from Adam to all of humanity?! Does this sound legitimate to you???

As a helpful side note: the Garden of Eden is not a horticultural paradise, it is the cosmic-garden-mountain throne room of Yahweh's joint kingdoms of "the heaven" and "the earth". This imagery appears throughout the Bible and the tabernacle and temple decor reflect this lost (but not forever) joint regency.

Michael S. Heiser is probably the most notable biblical scholar on this topic. He has several excellent books, but if you want the flavor of his scholarship visit Youtube and type in Heiser and "Garden of Eden". He is helpful for pointing out details that modern, western, non-Hebrew speakers miss but that would have been assumed by the readers and listeners of the time all the way up to the early church.