Why does God allow suffering?

GoldenKingGaze

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This is a popular question among non-believers and a reason why many claim there is no God. Or, why they believe in another God or religion such as Buddhism which explains this away as "karma". But as a Christian, what do you think is the reason God allows suffering?
By suffering we can appreciate joys of Heaven we otherwise could not. Suffering will end when Christ returns, after all the world hears the Gospel with the chance of repenting. He wants it sooner rather than later, but evangelism involves suffering. New converts suffer persecution. The angels offered to judge us, but Jesus explained they would uproot the wheat with the weeds, in the parable of wheat and tares. Jesus really wants judgment sooner rather than later, but it is up to us to work as evangelists and some in government.
 
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Christopher0121

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I believe that the primary reason for the suffering we experience is simply that this world is an evil place where bad things happen. I also believe we can experience sickness and pain because of our unhealthy and/or sinful behavior. Lastly, I believe God that works all these things together for our good (Romans 8:28).
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I believe that the primary reason for the suffering we experience is simply that this world is an evil place where bad things happen. I also believe we can experience sickness and pain because of our unhealthy and/or sinful behavior. Lastly, I believe God that works all these things together for our good (Romans 8:28).
Yeah, we make our world what it is, but with two disadvantages, free will in blindness and the presence of extremely witty tempters, and the absence of the kind of presence of God there is in Heaven.
 
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timothyu

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the absence of the kind of presence of God there is in Heaven.
It is there but the world of man is quick to condemn it as it is contrary to the self serving ways of mankind. Speak about social justice and see what happens.
 
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Hawkins

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This is a popular question among non-believers and a reason why many claim there is no God. Or, why they believe in another God or religion such as Buddhism which explains this away as "karma". But as a Christian, what do you think is the reason God allows suffering?

The first point often misunderstood is that planet earth doesn't lie inside the Kingdom of God. In the end, one can either be with God or not, he can't be both. If he's with God then he's living inside God's dwelling realm, a perfect place. If not, then outside God's dwelling realm is literally a hell, an absence of God who is the only source of anything good.

Thus Christians are told that this is not our world. It's just a temporary place. We have to make our way back to Heaven (i.e., back to God's realm).

Earth is a better place than hell simply because God still has an unfinished job here. That is, His sheep are still here to be saved.
 
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tdidymas

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Everything is for God's glory
But what do you mean by this? I believe I know what Paul means by it, but what do you mean? Are you trying to say that you disagree that the display of God's glory is for our benefit? What is your point?
TD:)
 
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Hawkins

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Bud God knew that Adam would fail. He knew that Jesus would do His work on the cross. So He planned for suffering. Correct?

The analogy is that, earth acts as a filter of a aquarium. Heaven is the aquarium. Why do you expect a filter to be clean? Filter is for everything dirty to show up and to be destroyed once and for all.

God know everything in advance, however for God to legally destroy evil, open witnessing is needed such that an open judgment can follow to have evil destroyed once and for all. Earth is such a place for all kinds of evil to show up, witnessed openly and to be destroyed once and for all.

God's sheep will in the end make their way back to Heaven. There won't be any complaint from them in the eternal realm of God. As for those who are not of His sheep, well what do you expect? Make this world a better place for them?
 
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tdidymas

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"Burden of proof"? What a weird thing to say. We prove things by quoting the bible, not by squabbling over conflicting opinions.

Do you have something to contribute, like quoting the Bible? I'm asking you to prove your statement:
If God knew everything, there would be no reason to threaten Solomon either. If God knew everything, there would be no reason to create Adam, or Satan, or anything at all.
I disagree with this, so I'm asking you to prove it. I would like to see where you're coming from.
TD:)
 
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tdidymas

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???
Please specify or define us.

Revelation 4
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
"Us" is mankind, the crown of God's creation, and those made in His image. Ecc. says were were created to enjoy God. So then, "for thy pleasure" doesn't mean we were created for God's enjoyment (as if He needed some entertainment). It means because of His desire. Our purpose to glorify God is for our benefit, not God's. God doesn't need any benefit, since He is the giver of all things. "He is worthy to receive glory..." doesn't mean He actually incurs benefit. It simply means that God is worthy for us to give glory and honor to Him. Giving God honor doesn't benefit God, it benefits us. God already knows Himself as the ultimate worthiness, so the above verse is stated so that we will know it.
TD:)
 
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tdidymas

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The key words here are "in a way" which are supposed to act almost like a metaphor. The bible says every inclination of the human heart of evil. Humans have become utterly corrupt, so we have no right to say we dont deserve suffering in a general sense. I am not saying that proclaiming the Gospel deserves punishment; proclaiming the Gospel should be praised, but our sin deserves punishment. The Bible says that God will convict us towards godly sorrow leading to repentance. This too is just suffering, as the suffering is caused by our own ignorance of God. Again, the goal here is character growth.
I still disagree with your statement. God's justice is discerning and exact. Persecution is not a just punishment for sin. We receive just punishment for sin by sin's consequences, not by something unrelated to it. In addition, consequences as a punishment is only a foretaste of the ultimate punishment for sin in the final judgment.

I agree that character growth is part of the goal of persecution and afflictions not related to sins committed. There may be overlap in the sense that consequence of sin teaches us the wisdom of righteous deeds. But persecution doesn't do that. It rather is a test of faith, not a punishment.
TD:)
 
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Rescued One

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"Us" is mankind, the crown of God's creation, and those made in His image. Ecc. says were were created to enjoy God. So then, "for thy pleasure" doesn't mean we were created for God's enjoyment (as if He needed some entertainment). It means because of His desire. Our purpose to glorify God is for our benefit, not God's. God doesn't need any benefit, since He is the giver of all things. "He is worthy to receive glory..." doesn't mean He actually incurs benefit. It simply means that God is worthy for us to give glory and honor to Him. Giving God honor doesn't benefit God, it benefits us. God already knows Himself as the ultimate worthiness, so the above verse is stated so that we will know it.
TD:)

I think a relationship involves giving and receiving. God is capable of feeling wrath and grief.

SHRUG.jpg
 
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Tropical Wilds

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This is a popular question among non-believers and a reason why many claim there is no God. Or, why they believe in another God or religion such as Buddhism which explains this away as "karma". But as a Christian, what do you think is the reason God allows suffering?

Suffering is a concept created by man to help process events that are awful or destructive or hurtful. It’s a means to understand our imperfect selves in our imperfect world. Suffering is our poor attempt to make peace with the things we can’t understand.

That doesn’t mean to feel suffering is selfish or immoral or irrational, because it’s not. It’s just the best we can do, God knows this, and it’s why having faith is so important.

Also, Western Karma is very different than the religious teachings of Eastern Karma. Western Karma is a means of natural justice (reward and penalty) and rationalization at the meaning behind it. Good people have good Karma, bad people have bad. Eastern Karma is a philosophy that encourages introspection and acknowledgement on how our actions impact others.

So, for example, if I got a new job after beating out stiff competition, Western Karma says I was good and rewarded or they were bad and punished, and this is the result. If the people who didn’t get it were better at some unrelated thing, they would have had better Karma and gotten the job.

Eastern Karma teaches getting the job creates a ripple that will impact others... IE, there are people who won’t have that job who may have needed it as much or more. You should acknowledge your good fortune by doing yourself and the job justice by giving it your best, and maybe take a portion of your first few paychecks and donate it to companies helping people seek employment as a means of supporting the same good fortune you experienced for others. Punishment and reward has nothing to do with it.
 
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Romans 8

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Suffering is a concept created by man to help process events that are awful or destructive or hurtful. It’s a means to understand our imperfect selves in our imperfect world. Suffering is our poor attempt to make peace with the things we can’t understand.

That doesn’t mean to feel suffering is selfish or immoral or irrational, because it’s not. It’s just the best we can do, God knows this, and it’s why having faith is so important.

Also, Western Karma is very different than the religious teachings of Eastern Karma. Western Karma is a means of natural justice (reward and penalty) and rationalization at the meaning behind it. Good people have good Karma, bad people have bad. Eastern Karma is a philosophy that encourages introspection and acknowledgement on how our actions impact others.

So, for example, if I got a new job after beating out stiff competition, Western Karma says I was good and rewarded or they were bad and punished, and this is the result. If the people who didn’t get it were better at some unrelated thing, they would have had better Karma and gotten the job.

Eastern Karma teaches getting the job creates a ripple that will impact others... IE, there are people who won’t have that job who may have needed it as much or more. You should acknowledge your good fortune by doing yourself and the job justice by giving it your best, and maybe take a portion of your first few paychecks and donate it to companies helping people seek employment as a means of supporting the same good fortune you experienced for others. Punishment and reward has nothing to do with it.

I'm not sure where you've adopted the terms "Eastern karma" and "Western karma", but I can assure you that all philosophy based on karma is eastern which stems from Buddhism, Hinduism, and yogic traditions.

Karma means the result of previous thought and actions usually far back from previous lives. They believe if you were beaten by a group of thugs, it was a direct result of a previous life when you may have beaten someone. Or, if you are a rich person, it's the result of your being generous in a previous life and helping the poor etc. They believe that one's thoughts and actions in this life will produce good or bad karma in the next and will determine status if they reincarnate as a human, or if they come back as a dog, monkey, goldfish, or any other animal.

By your post it sounds as though you may favor what you term "Eastern karma". Please tell me you don't believe this :crossrc:
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I'm not sure where you've adopted the terms "Eastern karma" and "Western karma", but I can assure you that all philosophy based on karma is eastern which stems from Buddhism, Hinduism, and yogic traditions.

Karma means the result of previous thought and actions usually far back from previous lives. They believe if you were beaten by a group of thugs, it was a direct result of a previous life when you may have beaten someone. Or, if you are a rich person, it's the result of your being generous in a previous life and helping the poor etc. They believe that one's thoughts and actions in this life will produce good or bad karma in the next and will determine status if they reincarnate as a human, or if they come back as a dog, monkey, goldfish, or any other animal.

By your post it sounds as though you may favor what you term "Eastern karma". Please tell me you don't believe this :crossrc:

What I am saying is that Karma as we see and teach it is very different from karma as it is applied as a philosophy or religious concept in the east. Sure, some schools or denominations in Hinduism tie it to past lives, but it’s far from standard. Yogic traditions, for example, do not. Neither does Mimamsa. And Buddhists, in general, don’t either. They teach it’s a means to show interconnectedness and “you reap what you sow,” a common social and religious principle.

The whole “reincarnated into a goldfish for bad karma” is so beyond incorrect, it’s insulting. It’s the Looney Tunes description of their faith. Sure, Jainism teaches your choices can get you reincarnated into dogs, cats, goldfish, earthworms... But they are the same soul-level as humans and therefore being reincarnated as a goldfish isn’t any bigger an insult than being reincarnated human. I think it’s the Buddhists that teach that you need to be kind to all, even earthworms, as earthworms were or could be our mothers. They are equal souls to yours learning a part you’ve already learned or will learn during your soul cycle.

I don’t “favor” Eastern Karma, though it is an amazing mindfulness concept that helps me learn humility and love, so I do pick it as one of my meditation concepts maybe 10-12 times a week. Maybe more. I just have this funny need to speak about other faiths and various philosophies (religious or societal) with accuracy.

Western concepts of Karma I think are purely imaginary and have no power for me. Maybe it does for others, and that’s fantastic. But when one says that’s what all Karma is, it is something I’ll clarify.
 
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Alithis

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Bud God knew that Adam would fail. He knew that Jesus would do His work on the cross. So He planned for suffering. Correct?
No . be careful .t.this sin of Jobs councilors was that they charged God with doing evil. God does not do evil.
The devil is only evil and mankind does evil.
 
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