Should Christian music be edgier?

GingerBeer

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Not really - although I appreciate the style.

Music is very subjective. Choral singing may be more mysterious and certainly artistically good, especially done in the right sort of building and setting (and with the right talent), but it's not more holy.

When I went to visit St Paul's in London a few years ago and joined the evensong, it was an amazing experience. The way the church is designed, the beautiful voices, it was certainly an experience I connected with emotionally, and helped me connect emotionally with the Lord. The real thing is the mystery it invokes, at least for me. But I've had similar experiences with all sorts of music.

You must remember, there's definitely a Western fascination for choral music, as it's in our history. It invokes our history, too. It makes me wonder about the many centuries Christians have worshipped God. But to many African people here in Johannesburg, it's just Western music, and doesn't invoke anything (except maybe thoughts about colonialism).

Music is just an amazing thing - all styles, done with reverence to the Lord, are certainly holy, set apart for God's purposes. Holy is surely not a particular sound - it has to do with intent.
It is "more holy" than the latest chorus with lines like "bop bop duop" dispersed among lines that are mainly about "me" and how blessed, holy, and generally impressive I am because I have faith in Jesus.
 
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HatGuy

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It is "more holy" than the latest chorus with lines like "bop bop duop" dispersed among lines that are mainly about "me" and how blessed, holy, and generally impressive I am because I have faith in Jesus.
Sure, can't argue with that! Don't forget to add a "woah, woah, woah" in the chorus too :p.
 
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Citanul

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I'm a pastor at a church in Johannesburg, and we get to sing Zulu songs and Xhosa songs and use different rhythms. It's awesome.

I play in my church worship band and we've occasionally done songs in other South African languages. I don't actually know which languages they are (which I'm a little ashamed to admit), but I really like those songs as they seem to have a different feel to songs of a Western origin.
 
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Citanul

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And yet I've seen her get a lot of backlash from the Christian mainstream because a lot of her songs (not all) are really "edgy" or heavy instead of happy and uplifting.

I think that has a lot to do with one of the things I don't like about CCM, which is that "worship music" has become the dominant form. While it has its place, the problem it has is that it has a particular lyrical style that has its limitations. More personal lyrics, social commentary, and heavier subjects don't work in a corporate worship setting, so have fallen by the wayside. That's not to say that there aren't artists still writing about those things - I don't follow popular music that closely, Christian or otherwise, but certainly the ones I hear about don't.
 
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FenderTL5

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In the modern context of contemporary Christian music, our mainstream listening consists of bland lyrics that just emphasize God's love for us, using broad terms & never being controversial...

...Take, for example, the song that many historians consider the first Christian rock song, "After Forever",
Two thoughts, the first one is an aside. Larry Norman's Upon This Rock was released in 1969 (Capitol) and Mylon LeFevere's We Believe released in 1970 (Atlantic). Both of those Christian rock albums, on major labels, predate "After Forever." The Sabbath song may be the first "metal" CCM song but hardly the first "rock".

As for the topic at hand; I really disliked the transition CCM made in the late 90s toward the modern P&W. I was working on CCM radio at the time. I left.
I prefer to keep music that I listen to "on the street" seperate from what happens in Liturgy.
There are some edgy bands out there, it's not something that I keep up with but some names are Decypher Down and Red.
A good friend of ours is "band mom" and she posts about them from time to time on FB. Not my cup-o-tea but it exists.
 
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Danielwright2311

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In the modern context of contemporary Christian music, our mainstream listening consists of bland lyrics that just emphasize God's love for us, using broad terms & never being controversial.

But is that how it should be?

I was at my college's Christian Campus House worship with a local Episcopalian priest. The band was playing some of the usual sort of songs, and he mentioned, "You know, I've always wondered if Christian music shouldn't be so vanilla. Sometimes it's good like this, but sometimes I think we need to be challenged, using more incriminating words to get us to live better."

The usual mantra "Jesus loves me, I love Jesus, all is cool" is fine; I'm not debating declaring our love for the Son of God, not at all! But shouldn't there be more?

Take, for example, the song that many historians consider the first Christian rock song, "After Forever", with the opening lines, "Have you ever thought about your soul can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave"


Or another one by the same band, "Lord of this World":
"Your world was made for you by someone above
But you chose evil ways instead of love
You made me master of the world where you exist
The soul I took from you was not even missed yeah"

Is it fine for all mainstream Christian music to be vanilla? Or should we be humbled that it takes a band called Black Sabbath to teach us how to write Christian songs?

(Side note: When looking at the lyrics of Black Sabbath songs that sing about Satan, notice that it's all singing about the despair of life for the devil; Ozzy calls out "Oh, God, help me!" in Black Sabbath after singing about where he's going with Satan at the wheel.) (And here's another discussion that goes into more detail of Sabbath specifically: secular artists releasing Christian music)

Important: I am not debating Black Sabbath in particular, I'm only using them as an example for the broader topic of edgier lyrics in Christian songs. You may reference Sabbath, but do not derail this thread from a discussion on Christian lyrics to a discussion on 1 band.

May God bless us all!


 
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NW82

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The only issue I would see with this is, what you use to draw people tends to be what they look for, then if they don't see it anymore they leave. What should we be using to spread the gospel? The gospel itself, or something else?
 
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Halbhh

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The only issue I would see with this is, what you use to draw people tends to be what they look for, then if they don't see it anymore they leave. What should we be using to spread the gospel? The gospel itself, or something else?
hmmmm.... interesting thing to think about.

Before I came back to church, I enjoyed every variety of music, so now I still do, and when the traditional service (we have both a contemporary and a traditional) plays grand organ hymns, I like those also (to my surprise). So, I like some of the contemporary songs -- because some are truly opposite of all the criticism here about CCM people keep repeating. I like some of the hymns better than others.

So, these musical forms, and even the lyrics -- they only work because I believe, and because I believe they work.

What if my church today switched bizarrely to the music genre I like the very least, and worse, into song styles in that genre I find the most boring of all?

If the lyrics were good, I think I'd love the songs. It's happened, where some melody and form I just plain don't like -- they sang with good words, and then I loved that. It's a wonderful thing.
 
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Halbhh

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Truth is quite "edgy". I would like to hear some of it in "Christian Contemporary".

So many different kinds of lyrics.

Such as lyrics that help us to be humble or to remember how much He has done for us -- which has the effect to help us better love God with all of our heart.

Sometimes lyrics that are like a plea.

Such as for instance one of our modern CCM lyrics, which is a prayer/plea to God, just like David did in psalms like Psalm 139 at the end --

23 Search me, God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.
Psalm 139 NIV


To me, an example of a popular CCM song that says the same: Hosanna (such as the popular version song by Hillsong) --

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like you have loved me
Break my heart for what breaks yours
Everything I am for your kingdom's cause
As I walk from earth into eternity

See, I found that even though the musical form and melody was very a boring type to me, that because of the lyrics that all went away -- but it took a painful minute or two to get there(!). I really found the beginning of the song wasn't working, partly because of the musical form. But somehow I listened long enough to get past the beginning of the song until I heard the words above, and then suddenly it all works.

That's because it's true, like Psalm 139.


 
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Halbhh

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More CCM (since we want to be edgy) --

Here the plea/prayer is to die to self, and live in the Spirit (Romans chapter 8) --


It doesn't matter that the musical form is (somehow I don't notice that, I'm not distracted by wishing for better musical form), but it matters what the words are, and the true plea to God.

Of course, there are so many different prayers/meditations/pleas we make, and this is only one of so many. There are so many others.

Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.
 
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Halbhh

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It is "more holy" than the latest chorus with lines like "bop bop duop" dispersed among lines that are mainly about "me" and how blessed, holy, and generally impressive I am because I have faith in Jesus.
Yeah. Just was trying to think on some pieces related to what makes a song good for someone (of course people are diverse, in diverse places in their walk, but still there may be some general things we can draw out). And some thoughts just above in posts 52, 53, 54 are about why some songs can work well (and differently than we expect) in spite of expectations we may have.
 
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brinny

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"Edgy", you say?

Good grief!!! Our GOD is "edgy".

He busts through all kinds of things, including our "boxes" that we can get so "boxed up" in.

He did something that is waaaaay beyond "edgy" and waaaaay outside da box, and that is sending His only begotten Son to come here, and die how He did, for us.

In addition, ever read Proverbs?

You'll be sittin' on da edge of yer seat.

Look at this....doesn't it remind you of ummmmmm Wile E Coyote?

iu
 
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brinny

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It is "more holy" than the latest chorus with lines like "bop bop duop" dispersed among lines that are mainly about "me" and how blessed, holy, and generally impressive I am because I have faith in Jesus.

I thinks you nailed this one.

(that subtle me me me and how "cool" I am because i says "Jesus" a lot, almost as much as i says "me me me".)

The bottom line is, exactly "who" is being "worshiped" here?

("me", "ego", "self" and "pride" are sneaky li'l devils, aren't they?)
 
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WolfGate

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You're not looking hard enough. Lots of edgy Christian music out there. Just doesn't show up on the mainstream CCM stations. Red, Skillet, Thousand Foot Krutch... Edgy lyrically and musically. Not CCM, not P&W for sure, but Christian none-the-less.
 
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Blade

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Holy JESUS...you posted a link to Black Sabbath? On a Christian site? I dont receive this I do rebuke it in Jesus name.

No clue what your listening to.... song that pops up "only one name JESUS".. shall I post more? Is that to BLAND? Buy your own music you like and listen to it. Maybe the problem is not them but you. You posted a LINK to black Sabbath. This is evil not of GOD. Not something you EVER play with. When I was young ALL I use to listen to was acid rock.

That link should be gone.
 
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