I don't know

Ttalkkugjil · Mar 26, 2019

Gracia Singh said:
There are still t-shirts tailored for women and t-shirts tailored for men.

Yes, but those aren't the t-shirts I specifically asked about.

JosephZ · Mar 27, 2019

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

That law was given to the nation of Israel, not to the Church. The laws found in the Old Testament were never intended for everyone.

Kaon · Mar 27, 2019

JosephZ said:
That law was given to the nation of Israel, not to the Church. The laws found in the Old Testament were never intended for everyone.

This is a dangerous thing to say. Where did the Word of God ever say that the law from the Most High God (given to Moses or any other prophet, or by His own word) ever say that there are two sets of laws for His people?

In any case, Christ followed the OT, and we should follow Christ. There are lines on female and male garments even as the times change.

JosephZ · Mar 27, 2019

Kaon said:
This is a dangerous thing to say. Where did the Word of God ever say that the law from the Most High God (given to Moses or any other prophet, or by His own word) ever say that there are two sets of laws for His people?

The law was clearly given to Israel only.

"Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you may live and go in and take possession of the land which the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. (Deuteronomy 4:1)

These are the statutes and ordinances and laws which the LORD established between Himself and the sons of Israel through Moses at Mount Sinai. (Leviticus 26:46)

Paul explains the purpose of the law that was given to Israel.

What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the seed should come to whom the promise has been made. It was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not between one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could make alive, most certainly righteousness would have been of the law. (Galatians 3:19-21)

The Old Testament law was added as an overseer to keep the Israel in line until the coming of Christ.

But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, not by works of righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior; that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7)

The Old Testament gives us a history of the law and shows us through the nation of Israel how we can never keep it. If we try to keep the law, we will fail just as Israel did. The only way we can be made righteous is through the blood of Jesus Christ. If we put our faith in Him, and love others as we love ourselves, then we don't need to concern ourselves with trying to seek righteousness by following the law. God doesn't require us to keep the law and our righteousness comes though our faith in Christ.

“For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!” (Galatians 2:21)

Kaon said:
In any case, Christ followed the OT, and we should follow Christ.

Jesus was a Jew and was required to follow the law which He did perfectly.

Kaon said:
There are lines on female and male garments even as the times change.

Do you really believe God will condemn a man for wearing a woman's undergarments? Should we condemn someone for doing so or tell them that it's wrong when we ourselves are also guilty of not following all of the laws given to the Israel?

holo · Mar 27, 2019

From time to time I miss being a Christian.

But threads like these remind me how lucky I am not having to waste time and effort on these tragicomic mountains of molehills.

Tragic, because honestly, what a petty God to believe in. It blows my mind that people are actually concerned about what God thinks about their underwear. Their underwear. And how insane it seems to even ask such a question if one has read any account of what Jesus said.

Comical because, well, someone is concerned about which kind of underwear is morally right.

Jonathan Walkerin · Mar 27, 2019

holo said:
Tragic, because honestly, what a petty God to believe in. It blows my mind that people are actually concerned about what God thinks about their underwear. Their underwear. And how insane it seems to even ask such a question if one has read any account of what Jesus said.

It is quite perplexing how people first attribute to God everything good, majestic and divine understanding of everything then wonder if they get sent to hell when they washed their white underpants with red T -shirt with obvious results.

Kaon · Mar 27, 2019

JosephZ said:
The law was clearly given to Israel only.

"Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I am teaching you to perform, so that you may live and go in and take possession of the land which the LORD, the God of your fathers, is giving you. (Deuteronomy 4:1)

These are the statutes and ordinances and laws which the LORD established between Himself and the sons of Israel through Moses at Mount Sinai. (Leviticus 26:46)

Paul explains the purpose of the law that was given to Israel.

What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the seed should come to whom the promise has been made. It was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not between one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could make alive, most certainly righteousness would have been of the law. (Galatians 3:19-21)

The Old Testament law was added as an overseer to keep the Israel in line until the coming of Christ.

But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, not by works of righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior; that, being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:4-7)

The Old Testament gives us a history of the law and shows us through the nation of Israel how we can never keep it. If we try to keep the law, we will fail just as Israel did. The only way we can be made righteous is through the blood of Jesus Christ. If we put our faith in Him, and love others as we love ourselves, then we don't need to concern ourselves with trying to seek righteousness by following the law. God doesn't require us to keep the law and our righteousness comes though our faith in Christ.

“For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!” (Galatians 2:21)

Jesus was a Jew and was required to follow the law which He did perfectly.

Do you really believe God will condemn a man for wearing a woman's undergarments? Should we condemn someone for doing so or tell them that it's wrong when we ourselves are also guilty of not following all of the laws given to the Israel?

Israel is a people - specifically, the people of the Most High God. Jerusalem is going to descend from heaven.

If you want to be His People, you have to follow His rules. It is asinine to believe 1) any of His law has been void or nullified, and that 2) there are two sets of people who have to follow at least two sets of law - in which one set is under alleged strict orders of obedience, and the other is under no such order. Please name one place where the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself gave any permission for us to ignore the Law of God.

Do you think the Most High God is lukewarm about who He accepts as His own? Didn't the Word of God Himself say that whoever follows the commandments of His Father is His brother, and mother? What gave us the authority to disregard His Law? It didn't come from Him.

As far as wearing women's garments, He commanded His people not to cross dress. Like others have said, it goes against your actual nature. Just because it seems minute and much ado about nothing doesn't mean that is the case. Such an act could have consequences on your life now, and afterward. We know what is considered male and female garments. If you keep doing what you think is right instead of what He says, He will leave you alone.

JosephZ · Mar 27, 2019

Kaon said:
Israel is a people - specifically, the people of the Most High God. Jerusalem is going to descend from heaven.

If you want to be His People, you have to follow His rules.

If you want to be His people you need only put your faith in Christ and His accomplished work on the cross.

“Just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that ONLY THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH ARE SONS OF ABRAHAM. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.” (Galatians 3:6-9)

“For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh (FOLLOWS THE LAW); but he is a Jew who is one inwardly (THROUGH FAITH); and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not from men but from God.” (Romans 2:28-29)

“For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise (THOSE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT BOUND BY FAITH) are counted as the seed.” (Romans 9:6-8)

Kaon said:
It is asinine to believe 1) any of His law has been void or nullified, and that 2) there are two sets of people who have to follow at least two sets of law - in which one set is under alleged strict orders of obedience, and the other is under no such order. Please name one place where the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself gave any permission for us to ignore the Law of God.

There is no longer a separation between Jews and Gentiles and we are no longer slaves to the law.

Before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:26-29)

The law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. (Romans 7:1-6)

[We] have been crucified with Christ, and [We] no longer live, but Christ lives in [Us]. The life [We] now live in the body, [We] live by faith in the Son of God, who loved [Us] and gave himself for [Us]. (Galatians 2:20)

Kaon said:
Didn't the Word of God Himself say that whoever follows the commandments of His Father is His brother, and mother?

No, He said "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." (Matthew 12:50) Doing the will of God means putting our faith in Christ.

Kaon said:
As far as wearing women's garments, He commanded His people not to cross dress. Like others have said, it goes against your actual nature. Just because it seems minute and much ado about nothing doesn't mean that is the case. Such an act could have consequences on your life now, and afterward. We know what is considered male and female garments. If you keep doing what you think is right instead of what He says, He will leave you alone.

Do you follow all of the laws that were given to Israel? Personally I'm not capable of doing that, and I don't even try. I instead put all of my faith in Christ and live my life as close as possible to the commandments Jesus gave in the below verses.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”

“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:36-40)

Once again, "I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." (Galatians 2:20)

Call me Nic · Mar 27, 2019

JosephZ said:
That law was given to the nation of Israel, not to the Church. The laws found in the Old Testament were never intended for everyone.

The laws set Israel apart from the rest of the nations, but the moral law given by God is the sum of the perfect morality of God that is naturally imprinted on every man’s heart. Killing, stealing, covetousness, etc. are all known as intrinsically evil, whether obeyed or not. And the Bible says that too... so to say God’s law was not intended for everybody is not true in the least, and not biblical at all.

JosephZ · Mar 27, 2019

Nicolaus Mourer said:
The laws set Israel apart from the rest of the nations, but the moral law given by God is the sum of the perfect morality of God that is naturally imprinted on every man’s heart. Killing, stealing, covetousness, etc. are all known as intrinsically evil, whether obeyed or not. And the Bible says that too... so to say God’s law was not intended for everybody is not true in the least, and not biblical at all.

Yes, since mankind was created in the image of God, then all mankind would naturally have the moral law ingrained in their hearts. The verse below shows this (Black highlight), and also shows that the gentiles were not given the law (Red Highlight). The law was given only to the nation of Israel.

All who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:12-16)

Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also... (Romans 3:27-29)

Even the moral laws have been fulfilled in Christ and we are under no obligation to keep them as a way of earning our way to God.

Petros2015 · Mar 27, 2019

LostAndInsecure said:
Is it wrong for a man to wear female underwear?

It's a little odd. Did you purchase them for yourself or are you 'borrowing'?
I would say that if you are in a relationship with someone you should probably communicate the predillection to them if they don't already know. Things like that might be an unacceptable surprise to someone you are involved with and it's better to discuss them upfront with anyone who has a right to know if you continue with or progress it. Treat others as you want to be treated, is I think the most important rule here.

Jonathan Walkerin · Mar 27, 2019

Petros2015 said:
It's a little odd. Did you purchase them for yourself or are you 'borrowing'?

Question is asked by a person with a title "sceptic" so clearly he does not care nor has actually a problem with this. Just having fun with absurdity answers religious people can come up with it.

Kaon · Mar 27, 2019

JosephZ said:
If you want to be His people you need only put your faith in Christ and His accomplished work on the cross.

While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew 12:46-50

The Word of God Himself said this; He is the authority on the Law. What is the will of His Father?

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. Isaiah 1:18-20

That is from the Most High God Himself.

There is no longer a separation between Jews and Gentiles and we are no longer slaves to the law.

Click to expand...

Be that as it may, it still doesn't change the fact that those who are obedient to the Most High God are His people. Everyone else is everyone else. There was never such a thing as "slavery to the Law" to obedient, holy entities like angels, because the Law of the Most High God is not conditional, and is as natural as the elements - even more so, because it is what created the elements themselves.

Compare it against the Most High God, and the Word of God Himself: when and where did either say that the Law was null, void, or only for a select group of people who are not His people. Faith without works is dead.

God is the same as He was in the past and future.

Call me Nic · Mar 27, 2019

JosephZ said:
Even the moral laws have been fulfilled in Christ and we are under no obligation to keep them as a way of earning our way to God.

We’re not talking about salvation, at least I’m not. I’m talking about the doctrine of separation from the world, or the idea of being a peculiar people. We use God’s moral statutes and judgements to determine how God sees things. Even though we as Christians are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, if a Christian is to seek after God, he should understand God’s moral judgements, because they help the Christian understand God’s way. It’s the reason why the law hasn’t been removed from the Bible. When living, Jesus used quotations from God’s law to preach the gospel, to rebuke Satan, etc.

Indeed Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believeth, but the moral law hasn’t passed away, neither has it lost its validity. We don’t keep the moral law to be saved, or to earn favor in God’s eyes - that only comes through Christ. However, we study the moral law to understand what God’s expectations are, and what he thinks of all manner of different concepts. We live by EVERY single word of God, including the law. To walk spiritually, we need to understand and use God’s law to grow in knowledge at least in some part. After all, through the law comes the knowledge of sin - that’s the purpose of it. It helps us identify our sin, so that we can take it to the throne of Christ, and repent from those things that hinder us.

God has an opinion about very many matters, and the better we can adjust our mindset to fit his opinions, and adopt his opinions for ourselves, the better.

Petros2015 · Mar 27, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Question is asked by a person with a title "sceptic" so clearly he does not care nor has actually a problem with this. Just having fun with absurdity answers religious people can come up with it.

I disagree, I don't think he is trolling for fun; I think it was a serious question that is bothering him. His name is LostandInsecure and his intro thread was here

Hello, I don't know.

JosephZ · Mar 27, 2019

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Jesus used quotations from God’s law to preach the gospel, to rebuke Satan, etc.

Keep in mind that Jesus' ministry was only to the lost sheep of Israel, so it only makes sense that He would use quotations from God's law that was specifically meant for them in His preaching.

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Indeed Christ is the end of the law to everyone that believeth, but the moral law hasn’t passed away, neither has it lost its validity. We don’t keep the moral law to be saved, or to earn favor in God’s eyes - that only comes through Christ. However, we study the moral law to understand what God’s expectations are, and what he thinks of all manner of different concepts. We live by EVERY single word of God, including the law. To walk spiritually, we need to understand and use God’s law to grow in knowledge at least in some part. After all, through the law comes the knowledge of sin - that’s the purpose of it. It helps us identify our sin, so that we can take it to the throne of Christ, and repent from those things that hinder us.

God has an opinion about very many matters, and the better we can adjust our mindset to fit his opinions, and adopt his opinions for ourselves, the better.

I agree with most of what you have written here, but the part I highlighted I'm just not capable of doing and I prefer to live by faith rather than trying to live by the law.

While seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” (Galatians 2:17-21)

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:10-14)

Call me Nic · Mar 27, 2019

JosephZ said:
Keep in mind that Jesus' ministry was only to the lost sheep of Israel, so it only makes sense that He would use quotations from God's law that was specifically meant for them in His preaching.

I agree with most of what you have written here, but the part I highlighted I'm just not capable of doing and I prefer to live by faith rather than trying to live by the law.

While seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” (Galatians 2:17-21)

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:10-14)

Indeed, the just shall live by faith.

However, Christ said himself that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, including the law. He’s not saying, “You’re saved by keeping every word of God.” That’s impossible. He is saying that a Christian’s life will be fulfilled (in purpose, in sanctification, in obedience, etc) when he lives according to the whole counsel of God. The law of the Lord exists in our bibles for a reason, they’re not just words to read on paper and forget about, but truths to be learned and embraced. Again, not for salvation, but for Christian living.

Also, I’m speaking of the moral law, not the ceremonial law. There are certain things obviously done away with in the New Testament, like blood sacrifice, circumcision, etc.

But again, those concepts are still around in a way, however now, instead of a carnal, fleshly application, we have a spiritual one. Sacrifices of righteousness such as contrition instead of animal sacrifices, and circumcising of the heart and mind, rather than the flesh. Practices reformed since Christ, because the Kingdom is in us.

ViaCrucis · Mar 29, 2019

What someone wears at home alone or under their clothes really isn't my business.

-CryptoLutheran

Sketcher · Mar 31, 2019

LostAndInsecure said:
Is it wrong for a man to wear female underwear?

Wrong or not, it doesn't sound comfortable.

holo · Apr 1, 2019

Sketcher said:
Wrong or not, it doesn't sound comfortable.

You'd be surprised.

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