Liberal/Progressive Christians

NW82 said:

Non of these support abortion or the liberal agenda so no clue why you quoted them.

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Liberal agenda? Why resort to these partisan political labels when discussing something that is inherently spiritual?

NW82 said:

Non of these support abortion or the liberal agenda so no clue why you quoted them.

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Abortion is legal, so therefore it is not a sin.
You won't get this right away. It takes a while to sink in.
Years perhaps.

Be subject to every and any kind of local; authority, first.
All scriptural law in ink or stone is obsolete.

NW82 said:

Because the question I asked is divided along partisan political lines for the most part.

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Are you implying that our churches are political organizations?

NW82 said:

Thanks for replying. From that perspective how do you view living in unrepentant sin? Most conservative Christians I know aren't authoritarian, and want less regulation.

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That's not what I mean by authoritarian. Authoritarianism extends beyond politics. Many evangelicals in the US are authoritarian personalities, it's obvious looking at posts on this forum.

Authoritarian personality - Wikipedia


My church has an equal number of Democrats and Republicans in the pews. We are not a political organization, and that notion is something we would find repulsive. Our social ethics is not based on political partisanship.

NW82 said:

Because the question I asked is divided along partisan political lines for the most part.

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It's hard to separate religion and politics when the majority of religiously conservative Americans are also Republican. It's possible to control for that, but I haven't seen any statistics that try to judge how much is politics and how much religion.

It's worth noting that there's a conservative agenda just as much as a liberal one. Conservatives are just as much defending a traditional culture as liberals are willing to accept arguments for change. That's pretty much the definition of conservative and liberal.

hedrick said:

It's hard to separate religion and politics when the majority of religiously conservative Americans are also Republican. It's possible to control for that, but I haven't seen any statistics that try to judge how much is politics and how much religion..

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They are so wedded together now, it would be difficult.

Churches that have a more liberal (in the true sense of the word, valuing human freedom), consensus-driven polity, often called mainline Protestant churches, were not the ones that politicized religion in this country. That did not start happening until the late 70's and 80's with the Republican party actively courting conservative white evangelicals.

My own church does not compel people to vote any particular way, that's considered something they determine. We do not engage in partisan political discourse behind our pulpits. We don't tell people they must vote Democrat to be a real Christian. It simply does not happen.

Even our presiding bishop, Elizabeth Eaton, encouraged people to pray for unity in this country after the last presidential election. Which is magnanimous considering that we do have real issues with some policies favored by some conservatives. But not because they are "Republican" but because we don't see them as compatible with our Christian vocations.

NW82 said:

You do realize that there is a caveat to that right?

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There is a new covenant where all our imperfections are forgiven and we must follow our hearts, doing what we think is right. In thanks for this new promise, we follow God as well as we can as sinners.

NW82 said:

Non of these support abortion or the liberal agenda so no clue why you quoted them.

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There is legalism, which we can consider the first covenant, and there is the second covenant, which can be considered much more liberal than the first. If God works his will through local government, then that is cementing the opportunity for change into the process of law, so that is about as far left as you can get.

With the first covenant written in ink or on stone, and the second set of laws written on our hearts and defined by local government, then my stand is cementing the idea of God's laws into local government, which is always changing. So what I see in scripture is permanently placing God's intentions for man into the extreme left since it allows them to change. Since most do not see this, then my stand is farther left than most people can imagine. Being a literal biblical conservative for 30 years, I did not expect to find this in scripture, but that is what it litterally says.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

To the Librarian
" Abortion is legal, so therefore it is not a sin.
You won't get this right away. It takes a while to sink in.
Years perhaps.
Be subject to every and any kind of local; authority, first.
All scriptural law in ink or stone is obsolete."
and this:

"There is a new covenant where all our imperfections are forgiven and we must follow our hearts, doing what we think is right. In thanks for this new promise, we follow God as well as we can as sinners. "

Please tell me where these are found in the bible?

SkyWriting said:

Abortion is legal, so therefore it is not a sin.

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That's just wrong.

FaithLife1 said:

That's just wrong.

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Thank you very much, it was so ridiculous It looks like he got booted

NW82 said:

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

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They stand with Jesus and his actions toward sinners.

SkyWriting said: ↑
Abortion is legal, so therefore it is not a sin.

FaithLife1 said:

That's just wrong.

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I guess I should support my comment with references
leading to that conclusion. I admit, not each citation is
direct to the point. But do check the context when you read.
I encourage you to read each in it's context.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Titus 3
1 Timothy 2
Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13:7
1 Timothy 2
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Revelation 1
Romans 13:4
Proverbs 21
John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 29
Proverbs 8:15
Psalms 94:20
Deuteronomy 28
Daniel 2:21
John 19:10-11
Colossians 1:15-17
Acts 8:32
Matthew 10:38

I claim that if it is legal, then it's not sinful.

NW82 said:

How do those who claim to be Christians equate the teaching of Christ and the Bible, with their views on homosexuality, abortion and general leftist viewpoints?

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This nation prides itself on its humanitarianism, we could simply say America as a nation is committed by law and by practice to a form of mass murder. God has a message for those who support abortion:

Ecclesiastes 11:5 God made everything, and you can no more understand what he does than you understand how new life begins in the womb of a pregnant woman.

Look at history. It was liberal Christians—largely Quakers—who first opposed slavery. It was liberal Christians who opposed child labor. It was liberal Christians who supported a woman’s right to vote. Don’t talk as if conservative Christians have always been pure and lily white. They most certainly have not.

Archivist said:

Look at history. It was liberal Christians—largely Quakers—who first opposed slavery. It was liberal Christians who opposed child labor. It was liberal Christians who supported a woman’s right to vote. Don’t talk as if conservative Christians have always been pure and lily white. They most certainly have not.

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That's true- Quakers never condoned slavery. The notion of owning another human being goes against their testimony, that everyone is a child of God. They did not even recognize social hierarchies and also recognized the equality between men and women, centuries before other Christians did.

FireDragon76 said:

That's true- Quakers never condoned slavery. The notion of owning another human being goes against their testimony, that everyone is a child of God. They did not even recognize social hierarchies and also recognized the equality between men and women, centuries before other Christians did.

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I have always been impressed with the Quakers, perhaps because I am from Pennsylvania. A number of years ago I attended a Quaker wedding. No one officiated. We all sat there in silence for over a half hour until the bride and groom stood and pledged their love for each other. Then each of us signed their wedding certificate. I understand that one person was selected to sign the official state paperwork, but only because because it allows for only one signiture.

Archivist said:

I have always been impressed with the Quakers, perhaps because I am from Pennsylvania. A number of years ago I attended a Quaker wedding. No one officiated. We all sat there in silence for over a half hour until the bride and groom stood and pledged their love for each other. Then each of us signed their wedding certificate. I understand that one person was selected to sign the official state paperwork, but only because because it allows for only one signiture.

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Quakers were founded on the notion that you didn't need external authorities, even the Bible... to know God. In that sense it has enormous potential for advocating for human freedom and equality. Because conventional churches that mediate grace or the church's teachings can always be corrupted by selfish individuals who spiritually manipulate people for their own ends.