Support for Israel is overrated

Nora Snowflake · Mar 26, 2019

I remember when Ted Cruz was running for president in 2016. Speaking to his supporters, he obsequiously lauded support for Israel, saying that America stands with them. The audience subsequently erupted into applause. I was thinking: how could Cruz’s supporters cheer at a speech supporting such an unethical nation? I felt mildly disgusted, so I turned the TV to another channel.

Every year America gives billions of dollars to Israel. The Israelis use that money to buy killing devices that target the Palestinians. Also, Israel has something called a “settlement program,” which is a euphemism for ethnic cleansing. The Israeli government sends settlers to Palestinian towns and villages, then kicks out the native inhabitants. No one would tolerate the American government sending white Americans to take the homes and apartments of black Americans in majority black neighborhoods, then tell the African Americans they don’t belong there are make them live somewhere else. They would rightfully call it racist and ethnic cleansing. But no one cares when Israel does something like that to the Palestinians.

It seems like so many Republicans support Israel and think that doing so is the best thing in the world. In reality, they are ignorantly supporting the mass killing and ethnic displacement of the Palestinians. Not only is support for Israel overrated, it’s also immoral.

Southernscotty · Mar 26, 2019

I stand 100% with Israel because they are God's chosen people from the very beginning and God is not finished with them at all. They are the a chosen nation.
I pray that America remains pro-Israel or else we lose many blessings

Yekcidmij · Mar 26, 2019

Nora Snowflake said:
I remember when Ted Cruz was running for president in 2016. Speaking to his supporters, he obsequiously lauded support for Israel, saying that America stands with them. The audience subsequently erupted into applause. I was thinking: how could Cruz’s supporters cheer at a speech supporting such an unethical nation? I felt mildly disgusted, so I turned the TV to another channel.

Every year America gives billions of dollars to Israel. The Israelis use that money to buy killing devices that target the Palestinians. Also, Israel has something called a “settlement program,” which is a euphemism for ethnic cleansing. The Israeli government sends settlers to Palestinian towns and villages, then kicks out the native inhabitants. No one would tolerate the American government sending white Americans to take the homes and apartments of black Americans in majority black neighborhoods, then tell the African Americans they don’t belong there are make them live somewhere else. They would rightfully call it racist and ethnic cleansing. But no one cares when Israel does something like that to the Palestinians.

It seems like so many Republicans support Israel and think that doing so is the best thing in the world. In reality, they are ignorantly supporting the mass killing and ethnic displacement of the Palestinians. Not only is support for Israel overrated, it’s also immoral.

I think many Republicans will support Israel for mostly theological reasons (see the previous poster on this thread for example). I think this is where you will find much of the difficulty with a lot of it's supporters. I mean, if it's what God wants, then nothing anyone else can say will matter. So you say it's immoral, but many will believe it's what God wants, so it can't be immoral.

I think the issues are actually quite complex and aren't as simple as Good Guys over here and Bad Guys over there.

Dave G. · Mar 26, 2019

Ya, I was going to say over rated by who ? Because God doesn't think it is.

Half the time what is reported is Israel lobbed some missile on poor Palestine, neglecting to say the part about Israel already took in coming from Palestine for three days. You don't get that part from the liberal press, as usual. Don't be fooled. You also don't hear the part about Israel first shooting warning shots so people can evacuate a building before they take it down.

The news business today is more dirty than the news itself, which is why I rarely watch it.

Yekcidmij · Mar 26, 2019

Southernscotty said:
I stand 100% with Israel because they are God's chosen people from the very beginning and God is not finished with them at all. They are the a chosen nation.
I pray that America remains pro-Israel or else we lose many blessings

Does being pro-Israel mean that one has to deny private property?

Southernscotty · Mar 26, 2019

Israel the nation and Israel the people. They are very special to God and He since He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow. He will still be for them. :]

Southernscotty · Mar 26, 2019

I like what Got Questions says here

Question: "Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel?"

Answer: This topic is one of the more controversial in the Church today, and it has significant implications regarding the way we interpret Scripture, especially concerning the end times. More importantly, it has great significance in that it affects the way we understand the very nature and character of God Himself.

Romans 11:16-36 records the illustration of the olive tree. This passage speaks of Israel the (“natural” branches) being broken off from the olive tree, and the Church (“wild” branches or shoots) being grafted into the olive tree. Since Israel is referred to as branches, as well as the Church, it stands to reason that neither group is the “whole tree,” so to speak; rather, the whole tree represents God’s workings with mankind as a whole. Therefore, God’s program with Israel and God’s program with the Church are part of the outworking of His purpose among men in general. Of course, this is not intended to mean that either program is of little significance. As many commentators have noted, more space is given in the Bible regarding God’s programs with Israel and with the Church than any of God’s other dealings!

In Genesis 12, God promised Abraham that he would be the father of a great nation (the Jews), the Jews would possess a land, that nation would be blessed above all other nations, and all other nations would be blessed from Israel. So, from the beginning God revealed that Israel would be His chosen people on the earth, but that His blessing would not be limited to them exclusively. Galatians 3:14 identifies the nature of the blessing to come to all the other nations: “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” All the nations of the world were blessed by Israel, through whom the Savior of the world came.

God’s plan of redemption is built upon the finished work of Jesus Christ, a descendant of David and Abraham. But Christ’s death on the cross is sufficient for the sins of the entire world, not just the Jews! Galatians 3:6-8states, “Consider Abraham: ‘He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’ Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’” Finally, Galatians 3:29 says, “If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” In other words, in Christ, believers are counted righteous by faith in the same way that Abraham was (Galatians 3:6-8). If we are in Christ, then we are partakers of the blessing of Israel and all nations in the redemptive work of Christ. Believers become the spiritual descendants of Abraham. Believers do not become physical Jews, but they may enjoy the same type of blessings and privileges as the Jews.

Now, this does not contradict or nullify the revelation given in the Old Testament. God’s promises in the Old Testament are still valid, and God’s relationship with Israel as a chosen people points to the work of Christ as a Redeemer of the whole world. The Mosaic Law is still mandatory for all Jews who have not yet accepted Christ as their Messiah. Jesus did what they could not do—fulfill the Law in all its details (Matthew 5:17). As New Testament believers, we are no longer under the curse of the Law (Galatians 3:13), because Christ has taken that curse upon Himself on the cross. The Law served two purposes: to reveal sin and mankind’s inability (on his own merit) to do anything about it, and to point us to Christ, who fulfills the Law. His death on the cross completely satisfies God’s righteous requirement of perfection.

God’s unconditional promises are not invalidated by the unfaithfulness of man. Nothing we do is ever a surprise to God, and He does not need to adjust His plans according to the way we behave. No, God is sovereign over all things—past, present and future—and what He has foreordained for both Israel and the Church will come to pass, regardless of circumstances. Romans 3:3-4 explains that Israel’s unbelief would not nullify His promises concerning them: “What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: ‘So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.’"

Promises made to Israel are still going to be kept in the future. We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency. The Church does not replace Israel and should not expect a symbolic fulfillment of the promises of the Old Covenant As one reads Scripture, it is necessary to keep Israel and the Church separate.

Yekcidmij · Mar 26, 2019

Southernscotty said:
I like what Got Questions says here

Question: "Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel?"

Answer: This topic is one of the more controversial in the Church today, and it has significant implications regarding the way we interpret Scripture, especially concerning the end times. More importantly, it has great significance in that it affects the way we understand the very nature and character of God Himself.

Romans 11:16-36 records the illustration of the olive tree. This passage speaks of Israel the (“natural” branches) being broken off from the olive tree, and the Church (“wild” branches or shoots) being grafted into the olive tree. Since Israel is referred to as branches, as well as the Church, it stands to reason that neither group is the “whole tree,” so to speak; rather, the whole tree represents God’s workings with mankind as a whole. Therefore, God’s program with Israel and God’s program with the Church are part of the outworking of His purpose among men in general. Of course, this is not intended to mean that either program is of little significance. As many commentators have noted, more space is given in the Bible regarding God’s programs with Israel and with the Church than any of God’s other dealings!

In Genesis 12, God promised Abraham that he would be the father of a great nation (the Jews), the Jews would possess a land, that nation would be blessed above all other nations, and all other nations would be blessed from Israel. So, from the beginning God revealed that Israel would be His chosen people on the earth, but that His blessing would not be limited to them exclusively. Galatians 3:14 identifies the nature of the blessing to come to all the other nations: “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” All the nations of the world were blessed by Israel, through whom the Savior of the world came.

God’s plan of redemption is built upon the finished work of Jesus Christ, a descendant of David and Abraham. But Christ’s death on the cross is sufficient for the sins of the entire world, not just the Jews! Galatians 3:6-8states, “Consider Abraham: ‘He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’ Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’” Finally, Galatians 3:29 says, “If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.” In other words, in Christ, believers are counted righteous by faith in the same way that Abraham was (Galatians 3:6-8). If we are in Christ, then we are partakers of the blessing of Israel and all nations in the redemptive work of Christ. Believers become the spiritual descendants of Abraham. Believers do not become physical Jews, but they may enjoy the same type of blessings and privileges as the Jews.

Now, this does not contradict or nullify the revelation given in the Old Testament. God’s promises in the Old Testament are still valid, and God’s relationship with Israel as a chosen people points to the work of Christ as a Redeemer of the whole world. The Mosaic Law is still mandatory for all Jews who have not yet accepted Christ as their Messiah. Jesus did what they could not do—fulfill the Law in all its details (Matthew 5:17). As New Testament believers, we are no longer under the curse of the Law (Galatians 3:13), because Christ has taken that curse upon Himself on the cross. The Law served two purposes: to reveal sin and mankind’s inability (on his own merit) to do anything about it, and to point us to Christ, who fulfills the Law. His death on the cross completely satisfies God’s righteous requirement of perfection.

God’s unconditional promises are not invalidated by the unfaithfulness of man. Nothing we do is ever a surprise to God, and He does not need to adjust His plans according to the way we behave. No, God is sovereign over all things—past, present and future—and what He has foreordained for both Israel and the Church will come to pass, regardless of circumstances. Romans 3:3-4 explains that Israel’s unbelief would not nullify His promises concerning them: “What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: ‘So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.’"

Promises made to Israel are still going to be kept in the future. We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency. The Church does not replace Israel and should not expect a symbolic fulfillment of the promises of the Old Covenant As one reads Scripture, it is necessary to keep Israel and the Church separate.

Should residents in Israel have private property rights?

Southernscotty · Mar 26, 2019

Yekcidmij said:
Should residents in Israel have private property rights?

Oh gosh I don't know. The tribes were given sections and that is all I know.

Yekcidmij · Mar 26, 2019

Southernscotty said:
Oh gosh I don't know. The tribes were given sections and that is all I know.

Well, it's an important question implicit in the OP. I think your answer probably has to be "no" and that land in Israel belongs to the State; there is no private land ownership. That seems to be the only clear way that the State has the right to deport and resettle populations.

Yekcidmij · Mar 26, 2019

So many problems arise when one group of people denies the property ownership rights of another group of people.

JosephZ · Mar 26, 2019

Southernscotty said:
Israel the nation and Israel the people. They are very special to God and He since He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow. He will still be for them. :]

When you see the word “nation” in the context of Scripture it doesn't have the same meaning as the English word "country" which usually denotes a place of fixed borders and stable government, but rather of a people or nationality. Prior to 1948 there had never been a country called Israel.

I feel that standing with the current state of Israel leads one to stand with the oppressor, not the oppressed as scripture commands Christians to do.

Lazarus Short · Mar 26, 2019

Southernscotty said:
I stand 100% with Israel because they are God's chosen people from the very beginning and God is not finished with them at all. They are the a chosen nation.
I pray that America remains pro-Israel or else we lose many blessings

Whether the inhabitants of the middle eastern country which calls itself "Israel" are God's people or not, is debatable...BUT being a secular State, it must be accountable for it's actions, just like any other State.

Yarddog · Mar 26, 2019

Southernscotty said:
I stand 100% with Israel because they are God's chosen people from the very beginning and God is not finished with them at all. They are the a chosen nation.
I pray that America remains pro-Israel or else we lose many blessings

Are you aware that Palestinian Christians are against Israel's treatment of them?

Palestinian Christians slam Pence’s pro-Israel faith

» Israeli Troops attack Palestinian Christians at Protest Following Sunday Mass– IMEMC News

Arab Christians protest 'McJesus' sculpture in Israel

Israel forces assault Coptic Christian priest during protest in Jerusalem

AACJ · Mar 27, 2019

Nora Snowflake said:
I remember when Ted Cruz was running for president in 2016. Speaking to his supporters, he obsequiously lauded support for Israel, saying that America stands with them. The audience subsequently erupted into applause. I was thinking: how could Cruz’s supporters cheer at a speech supporting such an unethical nation? I felt mildly disgusted, so I turned the TV to another channel.

Every year America gives billions of dollars to Israel. The Israelis use that money to buy killing devices that target the Palestinians. Also, Israel has something called a “settlement program,” which is a euphemism for ethnic cleansing. The Israeli government sends settlers to Palestinian towns and villages, then kicks out the native inhabitants. No one would tolerate the American government sending white Americans to take the homes and apartments of black Americans in majority black neighborhoods, then tell the African Americans they don’t belong there are make them live somewhere else. They would rightfully call it racist and ethnic cleansing. But no one cares when Israel does something like that to the Palestinians.

It seems like so many Republicans support Israel and think that doing so is the best thing in the world. In reality, they are ignorantly supporting the mass killing and ethnic displacement of the Palestinians. Not only is support for Israel overrated, it’s also immoral.

[Staff edit].

Why should America seriously support its arguably most import ally in the world, that mini superpower that shares in many of the ideals, goals, and policies that America has long pursued and cherished? Do you need an explanation?

thecolorsblend · Mar 27, 2019

Southernscotty said:
I pray that America remains pro-Israel or else we lose many blessings

Yeah, because life in America is a bowl of cherries right now.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that life in America has gotten progressively worse and worse since 1948.

Nora Snowflake · Mar 27, 2019

AACJ said:
Why should America seriously support its arguably most import ally in the world, that mini superpower that shares in so many of the ideals, goals, and policies that America has long pursued and cherished? Do you need an explanation?

[Staff edit]. Do you really believe that ethnic cleansing and displacement of an entire group of people constitutes ideals, goals, and policies that you cherish?

[Staff edit].

football5680 · Mar 28, 2019

Many people have been deceived into thinking that it is their "Christian duty" to unconditionally support Israel no matter what they do. Politicians do it because it is what their supporters want to hear and it is in their best financial interest.

The Barbarian · Mar 28, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
Yeah, because life in America is a bowl of cherries right now.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear that life in America has gotten progressively worse and worse since 1948.

Don't see how. If you're African-American, the American dream was unavailable to you then. If you're female, most professions were closed to you then.

A nation where huge blocks of the population are not free, is seriously damaged.

Meantime, life expectancy has risen, quality of life is better, infant mortality has dropped. Many diseases that were a death sentence then, are curable now. Technology has made many jobs easier and safer.

Over the past few decades, violent crime has had a marked decline.

But white privilege isn't what it used to be, and they keep chipping away at it, so that even calling the police on a black person for no reason can get a guy fired from his job these days.

Thing is, I'm an old white guy, who dates back to that time, and it doesn't bother me. Maybe it would be good for those who are bothered about it, to figure out why.

Might be a revelation.

thecolorsblend · Mar 28, 2019

The Barbarian said:
Don't see how. If you're African-American, the American dream was unavailable to you then. If you're female, most professions were closed to you then.

A nation where huge blocks of the population are not free, is seriously damaged.

Meantime, life expectancy has risen, quality of life is better, infant mortality has dropped. Many diseases that were a death sentence then, are curable now. Technology has made many jobs easier and safer.

Over the past few decades, violent crime has had a marked decline.

But white privilege isn't what it used to be, and they keep chipping away at it, so that even calling the police on a black person for no reason can get a guy fired from his job these days.

Thing is, I'm an old white guy, who dates back to that time, and it doesn't bother me. Maybe it would be good for those who are bothered about it, to figure out why.

Might be a revelation.

Guess I hadn’t considered that. I mean, it never occurred to me to see the economic catastrophes of the last thirty years, border invasion, abortion on demand, out of control divorce rates, rampant street gangs, opioid epidemic and vanishing middle class as blessings for some reason. Not sure why that is now though.

Strange.

Support for Israel is overrated

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