Replacement Theology Refuted

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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How about this:
Paul states in Ephesians 2:
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Now if Christ tore down the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile back in the 1st century; why would He resurrect it 1900 years later?
Good post and scriptures.
The physical wall/s of partition around the Temple, and the buildings inside the City crumbled in 70ad, as prophecied

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”
Mark 13:2
And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 21:5
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The first obstacle was the Third Wall, just to the north of the Jaffa Gate.
The ground leading up to it was felled to provide clear fields of fire and to provide timber for siege equipment. Two of the Jewish factions fighting within the city agree to work together against the Romans, but a third continued to fight the other factions.....................
On May 25, the wall gave way in all three locations. legionaries scrambled up the crumbling walls to face the defenders, and eventually succeeded in opening the Jaffa Gate to the waiting Romans outside. The defenders were forced to flee behind the Second Wall -- which dated back to 37 B.C.

The second wall
was much higher and thicker than the Third. Though it didn't have as many towers as the Third, it incorporated the bastions of the Temple to the east and Herod's Palace on the western side of the city.
Titus positioned the battering rams to attack the central northern tower of the Second Wall. The tower crumbled, and a section of the wall adjacent to the tower collapsed.

The defenders then retreated inside the First Wall.
Josephus was used at this juncture to implore the partisans to surrender, promising honorable treatment at the hands of the Romans.
The defenders, in response, threatened death to any of the hundreds of thousands of refugees still inside should they have attempted to surrender.

walls ofjerusalem.jpg



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The Righterzpen

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Good post and scriptures.
The physical wall/s of partition around the Temple, and the buildings inside the City crumbled in 70ad, as prophecied

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”
Mark 13:2
And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 21:5
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

The first obstacle was the Third Wall, just to the north of the Jaffa Gate.
The ground leading up to it was felled to provide clear fields of fire and to provide timber for siege equipment. Two of the Jewish factions fighting within the city agree to work together against the Romans, but a third continued to fight the other factions.....................
On May 25, the wall gave way in all three locations. legionaries scrambled up the crumbling walls to face the defenders, and eventually succeeded in opening the Jaffa Gate to the waiting Romans outside. The defenders were forced to flee behind the Second Wall -- which dated back to 37 B.C.

The second wall
was much higher and thicker than the Third. Though it didn't have as many towers as the Third, it incorporated the bastions of the Temple to the east and Herod's Palace on the western side of the city.
Titus positioned the battering rams to attack the central northern tower of the Second Wall. The tower crumbled, and a section of the wall adjacent to the tower collapsed.

The defenders then retreated inside the First Wall.
Josephus was used at this juncture to implore the partisans to surrender, promising honorable treatment at the hands of the Romans.
The defenders, in response, threatened death to any of the hundreds of thousands of refugees still inside should they have attempted to surrender.

View attachment 253569


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..................................................


upload_2019-3-24_20-8-29.png


Here is the Antonia Fortress next to the temple complex. Notice the little tiny thing on the south end is the temple!

When the Romans sieged Jerusalem in 70 AD they destroyed everything but the Antonia Fortress. What people think is the "temple mount" today is what's left of the Antonia Fortress, not the temple.
 
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The Righterzpen

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:) how do you talk to a wall? Though I am not a follower of "Replacement Theology" one must read look into both. Nothing what so ever posted here proves anything. I have to say.. I see that ALLOT here. Carry on

??
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Yes, Seventh Day Adventist Church is the denomination. Is quoting a SDA magazine article a serious attempt by you to prove that there really is such a thing as "replacement theology"? Or are you just relying on people not noticing that the quote is not seriously proposing that there is such a thing as "replacement theology" any more than my use of the words "replacement theology" proves that it really exists as a teaching of a credible church?

Christians believe that Jesus Christ is Israel - Matthew says
Matthew 2:13-15 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him." 14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt I called my son."​
And Paul teaches that Christians are united with Jesus Christ
Romans 6:1-14 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.​
And Paul teaches that because of their union with Jesus Christ Christians have become the body of Christ
Romans 12:3-8 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgement, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

1 Corinthians 12:12-31 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptised into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honourable we bestow the greater honour, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honour to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honoured, all rejoice together. 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.​
Paul explains that the body of Christ is the church.
Colossians 1:24-29 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29 For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Saviour. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.​
And Paul teaches that Christ is the seed of Abraham to whom the promises were given.
Galatians 3:15-29 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man's will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many; but, referring to one, "And to your offspring," which is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. 19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptised into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.​
This is theology, the story of God making himself heir of the promises so that God can make those in Christ - that is to say, the church - into heirs of the promises because by incorporation into Christ they become heirs with Christ and share in the divine nature through Christ.

This ought to be elementary teaching to any Christian. It ought not need to be reiterated here. It is "the milk of the word of God" not the meat, but it looks like it needs to be repeated again because some have decided to forget it and pretend that gentiles want to replace Jews as God's chosen people when the truth is that God's chosen is Jesus Christ and always was and always will be thus outside of Christ there is no salvation and without faith in Jesus Christ there is no hope and no promises. Christ is the yes and the amen of all God's promises.
2 Corinthians 1:18-22 As surely as God is faithful, our word to you has not been Yes and No. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, whom we preached among you, Silva'nus and Timothy and I, was not Yes and No; but in him it is always Yes. 20 For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why we utter the Amen through him, to the glory of God. 21 But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has commissioned us; 22 he has put his seal upon us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

You might want to do at least a little research before you post. Wikipedia exposes such poor research and there is more if you persist.

Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of the Christian Churches for the majority of its existence. Christian traditions that have traditionally championed Covenant Theology (including the Roman Catholic, Reformed and Methodist teachings of this doctrine), have taught that the moral law continues to stand. Supersessionism - Wikipedia

And it is obvious you have not read the thread but in a cursory capacity.

Matthew 10
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

What, you think the disciples were instructed to go to Christ, the lost sheep? That’s the fallacious dilemma of your perception that Christ=Israel. Christ is Israel, but Israel is also a covenant people; it’s both, scriptural gymnastics notwithstanding.

Where did I state Ephraim/Israel is NOT united in Christ with gentiles or Judah? Where did I state that this union is not the body of Christ? You might want to actually read my post before you post straw-man arguments.

And you surely haven’t read my post were I affirm that, while Paul adds the progressive revelation that the offspring or “seed” in Genesis 22:18 has a “singular” meaning in Christ, he also reaffirmed the “collective” or corporate meaning in Galatians 3:29. The progressive revelation is Paul’s contribution through the Holy Spirit but it cannot destroy the grammatical-historical sense or it is not true progressive revelation. Progressive revelation can add information but it cannot take away what the original intent and that is exactly what RT as well as dispensationalism attempt. Paul reveals the gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham, the latter being the original intent. The offspring or seed in the “collective” sense, by which the gentiles were ordained to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah prophesied.

And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again. Zechariah 10:7-9 KJV​

This was written after the return from the Babylonian captivity and prophecy of another diaspora, specifically for Ephraim, which is also the name in the OT for the ten northern tribes, as is Joseph, in contrast to Judah. In essence, God would hiss, or call Ephraim and gather them in Christ and then scatter them in the world to bring in the gentiles, which was not the plan for Judah. The plan for Ephraim is the source of the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. Isaiah is the most informative of Ephraim/Israel’s mission to the gentiles and the fulfillment of Genesis 22:18 in his prophecy of Zion and the Servant, Christ.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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View attachment 253576

Here is the Antonia Fortress next to the temple complex. Notice the little tiny thing on the south end is the temple!

When the Romans sieged Jerusalem in 70 AD they destroyed everything but the Antonia Fortress. What people think is the "temple mount" today is what's left of the Antonia Fortress, not the temple.
That is what I heard.
The 3rd video is the assault on A F:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory.
There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.

Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged. The robbers and seditious were all punished with death : the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.

After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.
==============================================================
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Jerryhuerta

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The fulfillment of Genesis 22:18 is in the one seed found in Matthew 1:1, and Galatians 3:16.

When the Church began on the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel", and "men of Judaea", and "men of Israel", in Acts chapter 2.

How much clearer could it be?

.

Paul adds the progressive revelation that the offspring or “seed” in Genesis 22:18 has a “singular” meaning in Christ, but he also reaffirmed the “collective” or corporate meaning in Galatians 3:29. Paul reveals the gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham, the latter being the original intent. The offspring or seed in the “collective” sense, by which the gentiles were ordained to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah prophesied.

And addressing all of Israel does not translate all of Israel was present. Peter had to travel to Galatia and other domains to give the elect exiles of dispersion the gospel. 1 Peter 1:1.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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You are espousing British Israelism, which is a modernist doctrine nonexistent in the early true Christian Church, and for well in excess of 1,000 years thereafter.

From the web article: "Most Christians regard it as a cult."

Since the DNA of Israel's tribes is now ubiquitous within the human race, and since DNA was never a covenant criterion (Genesis 17:12); any argument which attempts to replace faith and obedience with "biology" (aka "replacement biology") in God's covenants, is immediately null and void.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

The third largest newspaper in Oklahoma in terms of paid subscriptions, the Baptist Messenger, wrote a review of J. H. Allen's book, Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright, in which they wrote:

This is one of the most interesting volumes we have read in many a day and we confess that the arguments produced by Mr. Allen seem to be unanswerable. It is more thrilling than Western fiction. The description of the scarlet thread, the royal remnant, and the part played by Jeremiah in the preservation of the ruler for David's throne, will cause you to lose sleep rather than go to bed without knowing the outcome. J. H. Allen - Wikipedia

It is only in recent times that a number of evangelicals attempt to brand the subject a cult, while they lock hands with Roman Catholicism. There are many who believe this is a sign of the great falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, which I tend to agree.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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If God was worried about biological progeny - Jesus would have produced children in the flesh.

He's not worried. His word does not return unto him void. It accomplishes what he determines. He determined the gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham. Genesis 22:18
 
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BABerean2

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And addressing all of Israel does not translate all of Israel was present.

Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Jews were present on that day from many different regions of the known world.

Which tribes do you think were left out?

When Peter said "all the house of Israel" do you think he was confused?



.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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How about this:

Paul states in Ephesians 2:

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Now if Christ tore down the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile back in the 1st century; why would He resurrect it 1900 years later?

My posts agree; they merely address more detail in how it's done. The gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham, the latter being the original intent of Genesis 22:18. The offspring or seed in the “collective” sense, by which the gentiles were ordained to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah prophesied.
 
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The Righterzpen

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That is what I heard.
The 3rd video is the assault on A F:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

==============================================================
...................................

Now I'm not 100% sure of "time table" here? I know who was left of the revolt had moved into "Masada" which was another fortification Herod had built on the other side of the Dead Sea. That one I know the Romans had trouble taking and so they basically starved the people inside and then when they finally mounted their assault; who ever was left inside killed themselves.

I'm a little fuzzy on the first Jewish revolt though. I know the Romans eventually "took" Antonia.

I'll have to watch the video you posted.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Jews were present on that day from many different regions of the known world.

Which tribes do you think were left out?

When Peter said "all the house of Israel" do you think he was confused?



.

Addressing all of Israel at Jerusalem does not translate all of Israel was present. Peter had to travel to Galatia and other domains to give the elect exiles of dispersion the gospel. 1 Peter 1:1. After I answer your challenges I'll keep repeating them until you grasp them.
 
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GingerBeer

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And it is obvious you have not read the thread but in a cursory capacity.
Of course not. With 115 posts so far and more to come I'm not likely to waste time reading everything, especially the posts that are mainly nonsense because they advocate the existence of some credible denomination teaching "replacement theology" when in fact Christians teach that Christ is the Israel about which all the promises of God were made. The nation descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was an image and shadows pointing to Jesus Christ. The nation was not the "reality" Jesus is. There are some good posts in the thread that I read and agree with. But your posts are mostly reprises of very weak arguments and theological nonsense propagated by groups that want people to join them as "Jewish messianic believers" or some such thing rather than as Christians.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Jews were present on that day from many different regions of the known world.

Which tribes do you think were left out?

When Peter said "all the house of Israel" do you think he was confused?



.

Here's an intriguing detail I found connected to Revelation 13.

(Don't know if it has any real significance but?)

All these places named were all part of the Babylonian / Persian / Greek empires. (Remember Nebbie's statue dream?) All these empire boundaries overlapped each other.) Now if you overlay a map of the modern middle east over this. With in these geographical boundaries are 10 countries (or parts of countries).

Intriguing!
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Of course not. With 115 posts so far and more to come I'm not likely to waste time reading everything, especially the posts that are mainly nonsense because they advocate the existence of some credible denomination teaching "replacement theology" when in fact Christians teach that Christ is the Israel about which all the promises of God were made. The nation descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was an image and shadows pointing to Jesus Christ. The nation was not the "reality" Jesus is. There are some good posts in the thread that I read and agree with. But your posts are mostly reprises of very weak arguments and theological nonsense propagated by grouts that want people to join them as "Jewish messianic believers" or some such thing rather than as Christians.

Tell you what, don't waste my time and I won't waste yours.
 
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GingerBeer

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The progressive revelation is Paul’s contribution through the Holy Spirit but it cannot destroy the grammatical-historical sense or it is not true progressive revelation.
Progressive revelation? You mean God learned something new or that God decided to release incomplete versions of his "truth" only to progressively reveal (like drawing back a curtain hiding a magic trick) it but at the same time insisting that the older versions MUST be believed in all their incompleteness? No thanks, that's is just crazy.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Progressive revelation? You mean God learned something new or that God decided to release incomplete versions of his "truth" only to progressively reveal (like drawing back a curtain hiding a magic trick) it but at the same time insisting that the older versions MUST be believed in all their incompleteness? No thanks, that's is just crazy.

Are you going to make me waste my time looking up a theological article on "progressive revelation" for you? Why can't you do that and save me some time?
 
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GingerBeer

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Tell you what, don't waste my time
You have yet to deal, seriously, which the passages I posted.
Christians believe that Jesus Christ is Israel - Matthew says
Matthew 2:13-15 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him." 14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt I called my son."​
And Paul teaches that Christians are united with Jesus Christ
Romans 6:1-14 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.​
And Paul teaches that because of their union with Jesus Christ Christians have become the body of Christ
Romans 12:3-8 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgement, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

1 Corinthians 12:12-31 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptised into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honourable we bestow the greater honour, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honour to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honoured, all rejoice together. 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.​
Paul explains that the body of Christ is the church.
Colossians 1:24-29 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29 For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Saviour. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.​
And Paul teaches that Christ is the seed of Abraham to whom the promises were given.
Galatians 3:15-29 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man's will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many; but, referring to one, "And to your offspring," which is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. 19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not; for if a law had been given which could make alive, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptised into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.​
This is theology, the story of God making himself heir of the promises so that God can make those in Christ - that is to say, the church - into heirs of the promises because by incorporation into Christ they become heirs with Christ and share in the divine nature through Christ.

This ought to be elementary teaching to any Christian. It ought not need to be reiterated here. It is "the milk of the word of God" not the meat, but it looks like it needs to be repeated again because some have decided to forget it and pretend that gentiles want to replace Jews as God's chosen people when the truth is that God's chosen is Jesus Christ and always was and always will be thus outside of Christ there is no salvation and without faith in Jesus Christ there is no hope and no promises. Christ is the yes and the amen of all God's promises.
2 Corinthians 1:18-22 As surely as God is faithful, our word to you has not been Yes and No. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, whom we preached among you, Silva'nus and Timothy and I, was not Yes and No; but in him it is always Yes. 20 For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why we utter the Amen through him, to the glory of God. 21 But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has commissioned us; 22 he has put his seal upon us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.​
 
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