"j"esus culture and hillsong apostates

amariselle · Mar 24, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I still can’t find anything linking hillsong to bethel. I’ve followed hillsong in their preaching and music for years and have never seen anything remotely evil about it. So it’s hard to accept claims from a random website over years of watching the actual teachings of the church.

I have been writing about Bethel and Jesus Culture specifically, not Hillsong.

Romans 8 · Mar 24, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I've seen similar connections made in relation to the independent baptist churches.

I find this discussion has been good so far, but what is the application going forward? Without application, this ends up being little more than gossip, faultfinding, and grumbling.

The thread is meant to be informative. I searched for another thread like this one before making it and it seems there isn't much mention. I want people to know the dangers of these bands, and make people aware of these false teachings in the church.

One of the churches I called offers "Sozo", which is a spiritual practce. They do not disclose what Sozo is, and are vague about it. I researched it and found it was a Bethel church practice. This concerns me as they claim that this is biblical. Well the word may be but the practice is not.

Gregory Thompson · Mar 24, 2019

yeah google refuses to connect hillsong and bethel. but Jesus culture and Bethel, no problem.

BNR32FAN · Mar 24, 2019

amariselle said:
Please stop simply dismissing every objection to false teachers. That lengthy article is well researched and documented. They do their homework.

But this is why I won’t do anyone else’s research for them. If a person isn’t willing to know the truth, they won’t care how much clear evidence there is of grevious error.

The thing is as I’ve stated that I’ve watched their preaching for years and have never seen anything evil. That is research.

BNR32FAN · Mar 24, 2019

amariselle said:
I have been writing about Bethel and Jesus Culture specifically, not Hillsong.

I’m not really familiar with Bethel only looked at their statement of faith.

Romans 8 · Mar 24, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I still can’t find anything linking hillsong to bethel. I’ve followed hillsong in their preaching and music for years and have never seen anything remotely evil about it. So it’s hard to accept claims from a random website over years of watching the actual teachings of the church.

If they perform at their Bethel church they are affiliated. It means they endorse the church and their practices.

Gregory Thompson · Mar 24, 2019

Romans 8 said:
The thread is meant to be informative. I searched for another thread like this one before making it and it seems there isn't much mention. I want people to know the dangers of these bands, and make people aware of these false teachings in the church.

One of the churches I called offers "Sozo", which is a spiritual practce. They do not disclose what Sozo is, and are vague about it. I researched it and found it was a Bethel church practice. This concerns me as they claim that this is biblical. Well the word may be but the practice is not.

"WHAT IS SOZO?
SOZO is the Greek word translated “saved, healed, delivered.” Sozo ministry is a unique inner healing and deliverance ministry aimed to get to the root of things hindering your personal connection with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. With a healed connection, you can walk in the destiny to which you have been called.

A Sozo session is a time for the Sozo team to sit down with you and with the help of the Holy Spirit walk you through the process of freedom and wholeness. Sozo is not a counseling session but a time of interacting with Father, Son and Holy Spirit for wholeness and pursuing of your destiny.

“I have had the incredible privilege of being ministered to on several occasions by Dawna DeSilva and the Bethel SOZO team. They are an amazing, gifted and powerfully anointed healing group...”"
Bethel Sozo - Home

Oh I get it.

In the new age movement, there are people who re-align people's energy centers in the body so the energy can flow freely again.

They call it a deliverance ministry, but it's more like a chakra re-alignment.

amariselle · Mar 24, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
The thing is as I’ve stated that I’ve watched their preaching for years and have never seen anything evil. That is research.

So, you don’t have any issue with Johnson’s claims that Jesus was just a man on earth, that He “laid aside His divinity”, that “God is in charge, but not in control”, that Jesus died on the cross for our physical healing in this life, etc.?

What do you do with the fact that the Bible says otherwise? And how are such teachings not “evil”?

amariselle · Mar 24, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I’m not really familiar with Bethel only looked at their statement of faith.

Their “Statement of Faith” is a deception. Their actual teachings and practices do not align with it.

Romans 8 · Mar 24, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
But try telling one of them the truth and you will be quickly shot down as they believe they have the true Holy Spirit working among them.

Yes, try reading through this thread

So what do we do?

First we must be prepared to be "hated"when discerning this group. This is a very powerful deception and it is not easily shaken because God has sent them a delusion for not believing in the truth.

Second, pray, pray, pray that the Lord equip you when the "catalyst" , Jesus Culture ,invades your church.

Third, if the catalyst mutates into unrighteousness, the one gifted with "discernment" must take it to
the Elders and rebuke.

Blessings

This is good advice, thank you for your input, God Bless!

Gregory Thompson · Mar 24, 2019

The thing is, the further time progresses, the more the secular world will bend people's mind towards being "magical" without even noticing.

So when we get new converts to Christianity, this will continue, they have an addiction to a type of energy and will gravitate to the ministries providing it ... even if it is not of God.

I find after the main discussion, the only application really is to pray as I have been doing.

brinny · Mar 24, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
I agree with you friend that none of those you listed are good influences. Sadly I’d say most churches, though not all, are just trying to please everyone.

are just trying to please everyone.

There's a glaring issue here. God is glaringly left out.

And what is even more disturbing, is that no one notices and/or if they do, they are quite happy with it.

Anyone see at least 4-5 "red flags" wavin' in the breeeze here?

HatGuy · Mar 24, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
The music is a catalyst. The lyrics are not particularly heretical however the hypnotic , repetitive nature of the music is not Holy

There's no such thing as a "holy" style of music. Music cannot be holy or unholy in of itself. It is how it's used and the context it's used in etc. that makes all the difference - like every other form of art.

Organ music and classical music can also be repetitive and hypnotic.

In fact, repetitiveness is not evil either. If such music, however, is being used to help people get a more defined experience on LSD, then the repetitive nature is being used for evil, but repetitive music also has good contexts (for example, for concentration or relaxation).

You really have to separate style from substance. Lyrics are important. Context is important. Use is important. But style is something altogether different.

Romans 8 · Mar 24, 2019

This is a good article which sums up the Bethel church and worship ministry fairly well:

Hillsong, Bethel Music and The Great Seduction

The following is an excerpt from the article:

C.H. Fisher (1), in his Truth Keepers blog states: “Many of the ones that rush to associate with Bethel Music in their concerts might never accept the bizarre shenanigans of Bethel Church. The alluring music has seduced them into to associating rather than exposing. Further, Bethel Music’s siren songs have the hypnotic effect of covering up one hard fact. If the spirits of darkness are in the source, then the same spirits are in the flow. “Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?” (James 3:11) “A bad tree cannot bear good fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-20).”

And: “Bethel Music does not go around the country putting on concerts to showcase talent, to entertain people, or to make lots of money. The so-called worship team is on the road for one purpose. That purpose is to unite people with the spirits that comprise its source, Bethel Church.”

And, Instead of exposing the darkness, “professing Christians are bonding with Bethel Music in a concert. They weave and sway with the music, their spirits open and receptive, being stroked by the ebb and flow of the rhythms and hypnotic sounds.” They unwittingly are fellowshiping with demons.

Romans 8 · Mar 24, 2019

brinny said:
There's a glaring issue here. God is glaringly left out.

And what is even more disturbing, is that no one notices and/or if they do, they are quite happy with it.

Anyone see at least 4-5 "red flags" wavin' in the breeeze here?

Exactly, as the article I posted claims: Many of the Bethel music and Hillsong listeners worship the worship songs instead of God. This is delusion.

brinny · Mar 24, 2019

Romans 8 said:
Exactly, as the article I posted claims: Many of the Bethel music and Hillsong listeners worship the worship songs instead of God. This is delusion.

Exactly. In addition, many of them are "fans" and will fight tooth n' nail if the group(s) they are enamored with are criticized, etc.

Yet we are, as believers, to not only examine ourselves, but ANYTHING we may find ourselves becoming "enamored" with.

Stone-n-Steel · Mar 24, 2019

Romans 8 said:
I don't know if the church is out of touch or if they are trying to please everyone.

Most churches today are run as corporations that follow the course of the world. In an odd sense this means a good mission field is the local church where you can find people who show some interest in Jesus. False teaching will always gather crowds as long as they appeal to emotionalism and materialism.

Challenging the group as a whole will end up creating a fight in the flesh and blood in my experience. The result plays into the enemies hands. By infiltrating the church you may be able to find some who will listen to the truth of the gospel that can be worked on by the Holy Spirit to win victories in the spiritual realm.

This is my opinion on a very vocal thread.

Sketcher · Mar 24, 2019

amariselle said:
Here’s the video I mentioned in my last post. As of now, Bethel still has it on their official YouTube channel.

I'd say that's about as aberrant as Peter's supposed vision of Christ on the Appian Way.

Where Peter Saw the Risen Christ

HatGuy · Mar 24, 2019

Romans 8 said:
This is a good article which sums up the Bethel church and worship ministry fairly well:

Hillsong, Bethel Music and The Great Seduction

The following is an excerpt from the article:

C.H. Fisher (1), in his Truth Keepers blog states: “Many of the ones that rush to associate with Bethel Music in their concerts might never accept the bizarre shenanigans of Bethel Church. The alluring music has seduced them into to associating rather than exposing. Further, Bethel Music’s siren songs have the hypnotic effect of covering up one hard fact. If the spirits of darkness are in the source, then the same spirits are in the flow. “Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?” (James 3:11) “A bad tree cannot bear good fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-20).”

And: “Bethel Music does not go around the country putting on concerts to showcase talent, to entertain people, or to make lots of money. The so-called worship team is on the road for one purpose. That purpose is to unite people with the spirits that comprise its source, Bethel Church.”

And, Instead of exposing the darkness, “professing Christians are bonding with Bethel Music in a concert. They weave and sway with the music, their spirits open and receptive, being stroked by the ebb and flow of the rhythms and hypnotic sounds.” They unwittingly are fellowshiping with demons.

I'm not a fan of Bethel or Hillsong. I find their music artistically boring and the lyrics theologically shallow (except for a couple of Hillsong songs). I don't like Bill Johnson's teaching and I have issues with a lot of teaching I've heard out of Hillsong.

But unfortunately, what C.H. Fisher is saying above is almost as bizarre as some of what I've seen Johnson teaching. It's a weird superstitious view of music. Spirits do not 'flow' in music and you are not 'bonding' with Bethel by listening to it. There's unfortunately no scriptural grounds for teaching all that stuff just as much as there is no scriptural grounds for teaching some of the bizarre healing methods I've seen some promote out of Bethel.

Music, which comes down to frequencies, can be used to open people up emotionally to something. It certainly does play with the emotions and the psychology of a person. But the music itself cannot bond you to anyone or any such thing. I don't even see how the curious passage of David playing music to Saul to chase an evil spirit away in 1 Samuel 16 could be used to substantiate the claims above. And where scripture was used above, it was used out of context and in the wrong way.

Romans 8 · Mar 24, 2019

HatGuy said:
I'm not a fan of Bethel or Hillsong. I find their music artistically boring and the lyrics theologically shallow (except for a couple of Hillsong songs). I don't like Bill Johnson's teaching and I have issues with a lot of teaching I've heard out of Hillsong.

But unfortunately, what C.H. Fisher is saying above is almost as bizarre as some of what I've seen Johnson teaching. It's a weird superstitious view of music. Spirits do not 'flow' in music and you are not 'bonding' with Bethel by listening to it. There's unfortunately no scriptural grounds for teaching all that stuff just as much as there is no scriptural grounds for teaching some of the bizarre healing methods I've seen some promote out of Bethel.

Music, which comes down to frequencies, can be used to open people up emotionally to something. It certainly does play with the emotions and the psychology of a person. But the music itself cannot bond you to anyone or any such thing. I don't even see how the curious passage of David playing music to Saul to chase an evil spirit away in 1 Samuel 16 could be used to substantiate the claims above. And where scripture was used above, it was used out of context and in the wrong way.

Let me ask you a question: Do you believe in demonic possession. And if so, how do you think demons can enter?

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