What do you think the Mark of the Beast is?? And what is sin about it?

Governments always want more control over their people. As we become more adapt at technology, it will be easier in the future for governments to punish those who do not follow their dictates by simply closing out their accounts, voiding their credit cards etc. whatever the Mark of the Beast is, I doubt it is the chip. Since even now, most of us couild lose everything by the whilm of the government. So one day in the future, a choice will be made to follow an evil government, or not, no middle ground allow. O course that will happen when cash is no longer allowed.....I believe.

peace
mark

Mark Dohle said:

Governments always want more control over their people. As we become more adapt at technology, it will be easier in the future for governments to punish those who do not follow their dictates by simply closing out their accounts, voiding their credit cards etc. whatever the Mark of the Beast is, I doubt it is the chip. Since even now, most of us couild lose everything by the whilm of the government. So one day in the future, a choice will be made to follow an evil government, or not, no middle ground allow. O course that will happen when cash is no longer allowed.....I believe.

peace
mark

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Revelation 13:17 says...………..
"so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

It is clear to me that in order for the Antichrist or the beast to control all buying and selling as seen in Revelation 13:17, a cashless society will be necessary during the tribulation. As long as people are using cash, transactions can be completed in private, but, if all currency becomes electronic, then every transaction can be monitored.

With the recent introduction of Debit cards, check writing is almost obsolete. It would not be a leap in any way to see that a "UPC Bar Code" on the hand would replace that debit card.

Yes, a time will come when a choice will have to be made. I do not think however, that if someone gets a chip now, he is giving in to the antichrist, it will be a conscious choice. Made after being informed that he or she will be cut off if they do not give up their faith in Christ Jesus. It could be soon, I pray.

Peace
mark

I was speaking before all of this happens. Technology will continue to develop, with that, the control of the government will become more prevalent. Even today, it is not inconceivable that we could get a leader that could enforce his policies with the threat of people losing their benefits, bank account, credit cards etc. if they do not along with it. The Antichrist is something different, and yes, when it comes, we need to be on the alert, pray and stay vigilant. We are not as free as we think we are.

Peace
Mark

Mark Dohle said:

Yes, a time will come when a choice will have to be made. I do not think however, that if someone gets a chip now, he is giving in to the antichrist, it will be a conscious choice. Made after being informed that he or she will be cut off if they do not give up their faith in Christ Jesus. It could be soon, I pray.

Peace
mark

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I agree with that.

I do that because the Anti-Christ has not been revealed as of today. AFTER he comes upon the sceen, then to take a mark that supports him would be a disaster.

That is why I believe in the Rapture of the believers before he is revealed as is stated in 2 Thess; 2.

ewq1938 said:

Being that Christ spoke of false Christ's and if anyone claims Christ is here or there and not to believe it tells me the AC will claim to be Jesus so accepting the mark won't be denying Jesus but accepting the false God claiming to be Jesus.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

I fear many Christians will not remember this warning and will be the ones of the Apostasy.

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It would be helpful to remember that in Matthew 24 Jesus was speaking directly to the Jews.

Also, IMO, I do agree with you that a lot of people will miss the Rapture because they are NOT Christians at all. They were Make Believers all along which is why Jesus said to them...……."Depart from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU"!

Major1 said:

It would be helpful to remember that in Matthew 24 Jesus was speaking directly to the Jews.

Also, IMO, I do agree with you that a lot of people will miss the Rapture because they are NOT Christians at all. They were Make Believers all along which is why Jesus said to them...……."Depart from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU"!

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Of course, St. John said that there will be many Anti-Christ, leading up the mother of all Anti-Christ. We live in crazy tilmes, where what is considered good, is what was deemed evil in the past.

Major1 said:

It would be helpful to remember that in Matthew 24 Jesus was speaking directly to the Jews.

Also, IMO, I do agree with you that a lot of people will miss the Rapture because they are NOT Christians at all. They were Make Believers all along which is why Jesus said to them...……."Depart from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU"!

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I find it amazing that people do not think of the 'last things', for life is over so quilckly, and most of what we seek does not feed our hearts that are hungry for Christ Jesus, even if they do not know it. I pray for all. I do know that God's judgments are 'true' in the deepest sense of the word. If someone is in hell, it is the only pace for them, and they do not want God's love..........we are a strange species.

Peace
mark

Mark Dohle said:

Of course, St. John said that there will be many Anti-Christ, leading up the mother of all Anti-Christ. We live in crazy tilmes, where what is considered good, is what was deemed evil in the past.

I find it amazing that people do not think of the 'last things', for life is over so quilckly, and most of what we seek does not feed our hearts that are hungry for Christ Jesus, even if they do not know it. I pray for all. I do know that God's judgments are 'true' in the deepest sense of the word. If someone is in hell, it is the only pace for them, and they do not want God's love..........we are a strange species.

Peace
mark

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Yes Mark, you are very, very correct and I agree with you.

We are a people obsessed with the "Now".

ewq1938 said:

He was speaking to his disciples, the first Christians.

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Agreed, but weren't they all Jews?

Matthew 24 is not about the Church which didn’t even exist on the day that they asked Jesus the question of when would be the end of the age.

ewq1938 said:

Yes but Christ was teaching new things and his disciples were the first Christians and it is Christians that he speaks of in the Olivet discourse.



Of course it's about the church. That's all it's about:


Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

False Christ's are warned about.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

"Ye" are Christians.
So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.


Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.

Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.

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You said...……..
"And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation."

I have to disagree with you.

The 7 Year Tribulation is ALL ABOUT THE JEWS my friend.
IT is all about Israel. It is focused on Israel.
It begins with Israel and ends 7 years later with Israel but will be felt all over the world.

Listen brother...….Jesus did not come to save the world. He came to save Israel.

Matthew 15:24...……
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 15:31...……….
"Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel."

But what did Israel do to their Messiah? THEY KILLED HIM just as Daniel said would happen in Dan. 9:26......…..
" And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The mission to the Gentiles was not at the expense of mission to Israel, nor was it merely an extension. Instead, Israel was to be the catalyst through which God would accomplish his promises to the world.

Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel in order that through his regathering and reconstituting the true Israel, the blessing of salvation would be released to flow from Israel and into all the world, just as God promised in the Old Testament which He promised Abraham.


When the Jews rejected Messiah Jesus and killed Him, THEN God turned to the Gentile world and offered salvation to us. But He was not through with Israel.

Romans 11:25-29 confirms that by saying...…….
"For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion. He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.” “And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable,"

The Tribulation Focuses on Israel!!!!

The Bible teaches that the tribulation is a time of preparation for Israel's restoration and conversion (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10).1 While the church will experience tribulation in general during this present age (John 15:18-25; 16:33; 2 Tim. 3:10-13), she is never mentioned as participating in Israel's time of trouble, which includes the Great Tribulation, the Day of the Lord, and the Wrath of God. Gerald Stanton explains:

The Tribulation does not deal with the Church at all, but with the purification of Israel. It is not the "time of the Church's trouble," but the "time of Jacob's trouble."

The emphasis of the Tribulation is primarily Jewish. This fact is borne out by Old Testament Scriptures......
Deut. 4: 30;
Jer. 30: 7;
Ezek. 20: 37;
Dan. 12:1;
Zech. 13:8-9)

Also by the Olivet Discourse of Christ (Matt. 24:9-26), and by the book of Revelation itself (Rev. 7:4-8; 12:1-2; 17, etc.).

It concerns "Daniel's people," the coming of "false Messiah," the preaching of the "gospel of the kingdom," flight on the "sabbath," the temple and the "holy place," the land of Judea, the city of Jerusalem, the twelve "tribes of the children of Israel," the "son of Moses," "signs" in the heavens, the "covenant" with the Beast, the "sanctuary," the "sacrifice and the oblation" of the temple ritual.

These all speak of Israel and clearly demonstrate that the Tribulation is largely a time when God deals with His ancient people prior to their entrance into the promised kingdom. The many Old Testament prophecies yet to be fulfilled for Israel further indicate a future time when God will deal with this nation ......
Deut. 30:1-6;
Jer. 30:8-10,.
Untitled

ewq1938 said:

Then why didn't you use any of Matthew 24 to prove it? I'm the only one who quoted the actual scriptures dealing with the tribulation and it shows Christians are the targets not the Jews. You posted a bunch of unrelated stuff and ignored everything that was in my post. Furthermore, Mark adds something Matthew did not:

Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.


In the GT Christians will be beaten in Jewish synagogues simply because Christians are the ones being persecuted not the Jews.

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My apologies to you. I thought that the fact of Matthew being written to the Jews was a well know fact.

There will not be a church during the Tribulation my brother. The wrath of God is not aimed at or focused on the Church at all.

I am pretty sure I did address your Matthew 24 thoughts by saying that the very thing many people miss right off is; there was no New Testament Church when Jesus gave the Olivet discourse! That’s right, there was no New Testament at the time Jesus spoke those words in Matthew 24.

So what have you over looked here? What have you forgotten that is so important? It is the fact that when Yeshua spoke about these things he hadn’t died yet, and the veil was not yet torn in two.

So the Bible itself tells us that; when Yeshua said these words he could not have been referring to the Church. The New Testament Church as having Gentiles in it would come later, after the death and resurrection of Yeshua. Matthew 24 was fully directed at the Jews, and it explains what will happen to the Jewish Nation right before the setting up of the earthly kingdom of heaven on earth.

As for Mark 13……….Those are not Christian or the Church in view as I just said that there was NO CVHURCH AT THAT TIME.

The realities that he mentions are end-times realities, but he is actually being much more specific, talking about something much closer to his contemporaries. Namely, the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple.

This entire passage of Mark 13:1-31 is based around Jesus’ statement to his disciples about the temple in Mark 13:2........
“Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

It is not insignificant that the context of this passage is a discussion about the Temple in Jerusalem. Jesus is looking toward the future destruction of the Temple (a historical event that took place in 70A.D.) and telling his disciples both what they can expect and how they should live their lives.

CONTEXT is the only way to properly understand the Scriptures.

Major1 said:

The realities that he mentions are end-times realities, but he is actually being much more specific, talking about something much closer to his contemporaries. Namely, the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple.

This entire passage of Mark 13:1-31 is based around Jesus’ statement to his disciples about the temple in Mark 13:2........
“Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

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I think you forgot to reference your source again.



What in the world is Jesus talking about in Mark Chapter 13?

Before we discuss, study together, the 'mark' of 'the beast', we should rightly identify 'the beast', yes, and then following discuss, study, the 'mark' of 'the beast', no?

Let's list all the texts that speak about 'the beast', and then list any related texts which those texts may be drawing from, if any. Once we have these, then we can begin to get some identification, isn't that the right way to find out? to line up all of the texts, like dumping out all the pieces of the puzzle, and comparing it to the picture we are given?

We can get a description of 'the beast' and find out from that description, what we are dealing with, and then consider the 'mark' following, right?

HeartenedHeart said:

Before we discuss, study together, the 'mark' of 'the beast', we should rightly identify 'the beast', yes, and then following discuss, study, the 'mark' of 'the beast', no?

Let's list all the texts that speak about 'the beast', and then list any related texts which those texts may be drawing from, if any. Once we have these, then we can begin to get some identification, isn't that the right way to find out? to line up all of the texts, like dumping out all the pieces of the puzzle, and comparing it to the picture we are given?

We can get a description of 'the beast' and find out from that description, what we are dealing with, and then consider the 'mark' following, right?

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We as Christians will not know who the A/C is. We can think we know and come up with all kinds of opinions but the Bible fact is......we will never know.

2 Thessalonians 2:7-12...………..
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (Holy Spirit) who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
(Anti-Christ)whom the LORD shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

The Holy Spirit indwells in the hearts of believers and until HE is removed at the Rapture, THEN the A/C will be revealed.

Major1 said:

We as Christians will not know who the A/C is....

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What is the final book of the scripture called?

I would be careful of adding to the word of God as you have done. The context does not agree with your addition, neither does the historical understanding agree with you, but that's for another reply.

Point 1. Revelation 13:1-10 is tied, by language and time, to Daniel 7:2-8,17,19-21,23-25.

Daniel, looking in time from his present:

saw (vison/dream) - Daniel 7:1,2,5,6,7,9,11,13,21

Sea - Daniel 7:2,3

1,260 - Daniel 7:25

war - Daniel 7:21

saints - Daniel 7:18,21,22,25,27

books - Daniel 7:10

angels - Daniel 7:10,13,16

God (Ancient of days; Father) - Daniel 7:9,13,18,22,25,27

Son of man (Jesus; Lamb) - Daniel 7:13,14

peoples, nations, languages - Daniel 7:14,23,27

worship (times and laws of God) - Daniel 7:25

Lion - Daniel 7:4

Bear - Daniel 7:5

Leopard - Daniel 7:6

a Dreadful terrible beast - Daniel 7:7-8

seven heads [1 Lion, 1 Bear, 4 Leopard, 1 Beast] - Daniel 7:4-8,11,12,17,19,23

ten horns - Daniel 7:7-8,20,24

kingdom (kings have kingdoms, dominions, thrones, and wear crowns) - Daniel 7:4,5,6,7,8,9,12,14,17,18,22,23,24,26,27

a mouth speaking great things, the great words, mouth that spake very great things, speak great words against the most High - Daniel 7:8,11,20,25

little horn (with the mouth (and eyes of man, thus head) speaking and warring) - Daniel 7:8,11,20,21,24,25

killed - Daniel 7:11,26

John, looking in time from his present (which also covers the past):

saw (vison/dream) - Revelation 13:1,2,3

Sea - Revelation 13:1

1,260 - Revelation 13:5

war - Revelation 13:4,7

saints - Revelation 13:6,7,10

book - Revelation 13:8

angels - Revelation 13:7

God - Revelation 13:6

Lamb (Jesus) - Revelation 13:8

peoples, nations, languages - Revelation 13:3,4,7,8

worship (times and laws of God) - Revelation 13:4,8

a beast - Revelation 13:1,2,3,4

body of a leopard - Revelation 13:2

feet of a bear - Revelation 13:2

mouth of a lion - Revelation 13:2

seven heads - Revelation 13:1

ten horns - Revelation 13:1

kingdom (kings have kingdoms, dominions, thrones, and wear crowns) - Revelation 13:1,2,7

mouth speaking great things and blasphemies - Revelation 13:1,5,6

one of its heads (with the mouth (being a head, has eyes) speaking and warring) - Revelation 13:3,5,6,7

killed - Revelation 13:10

Do you agree yes or no?

HeartenedHeart said:

What is the final book of the scripture called?

I would be careful of adding to the word of God as you have done. The context does not agree with your addition, neither does the historical understanding agree with you, but that's for another reply.

Point 1. Revelation 13:1-10 is tied, by language and time, to Daniel 7:2-8,17,19-21,23-25.

Daniel, looking in time from his present:

saw (vison/dream) - Daniel 7:1,2,5,6,7,9,11,13,21

Sea - Daniel 7:2,3

1,260 - Daniel 7:25

war - Daniel 7:21

saints - Daniel 7:18,21,22,25,27

books - Daniel 7:10

angels - Daniel 7:10,13,16

God (Ancient of days; Father) - Daniel 7:9,13,18,22,25,27

Son of man (Jesus; Lamb) - Daniel 7:13,14

peoples, nations, languages - Daniel 7:14,23,27

worship (times and laws of God) - Daniel 7:25

Lion - Daniel 7:4

Bear - Daniel 7:5

Leopard - Daniel 7:6

a Dreadful terrible beast - Daniel 7:7-8

seven heads [1 Lion, 1 Bear, 4 Leopard, 1 Beast] - Daniel 7:4-8,11,12,17,19,23

ten horns - Daniel 7:7-8,20,24

kingdom (kings have kingdoms, dominions, thrones, and wear crowns) - Daniel 7:4,5,6,7,8,9,12,14,17,18,22,23,24,26,27

a mouth speaking great things, the great words, mouth that spake very great things, speak great words against the most High - Daniel 7:8,11,20,25

little horn (with the mouth (and eyes of man, thus head) speaking and warring) - Daniel 7:8,11,20,21,24,25

killed - Daniel 7:11,26

John, looking in time from his present (which also covers the past):

saw (vison/dream) - Revelation 13:1,2,3

Sea - Revelation 13:1

1,260 - Revelation 13:5

war - Revelation 13:4,7

saints - Revelation 13:6,7,10

book - Revelation 13:8

angels - Revelation 13:7

God - Revelation 13:6

Lamb (Jesus) - Revelation 13:8

peoples, nations, languages - Revelation 13:3,4,7,8

worship (times and laws of God) - Revelation 13:4,8

a beast - Revelation 13:1,2,3,4

body of a leopard - Revelation 13:2

feet of a bear - Revelation 13:2

mouth of a lion - Revelation 13:2

seven heads - Revelation 13:1

ten horns - Revelation 13:1

kingdom (kings have kingdoms, dominions, thrones, and wear crowns) - Revelation 13:1,2,7

mouth speaking great things and blasphemies - Revelation 13:1,5,6

one of its heads (with the mouth (being a head, has eyes) speaking and warring) - Revelation 13:3,5,6,7

killed - Revelation 13:10

Do you agree yes or no?

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Specifically...…….where did I add to the Word of God????

1. Yes. Revelation is tied to Daniel. Revelation is actually the unveiling of Daniel as Daniel was told in chapter 12 to seal HIS book until the time of the end.